@ZelgadisGW Try not to be put off by someone younger having "more skill," lucky them! but if the goal is simply being better than other people rather than bettering yourself, you will be disappointed, I guarantee.
If manga is what you are interested in I wouldn't know where to begin as I was under the impression it was based on mannerism rather than observation. If that's the case I would go about copying as much of the stuff that I liked, as possible.
Some of your points
-Shading: Can be a matter of style, there are lots of artists that use simple line with no tone. But even if you use some simple shading you will add form and composition not present from the structural lines alone. If you are put off shading after your line-drawing; try not using line as a step before tone, use them both together.
-Colour: I think really depends on the medium you are applying it with. if you can aim to get it right first time without layering though, you'll be off to a good start.
-Perspective: Personally, I am not a fan of horizons lines and think you can do fine without them. They can be useful if you get stuck on something but I find using them from the start can be needlessly complicated and make a drawing look rigid.
If you are having trouble coming up with something from scratch, what I do is to do a bad drawing of what I want, the important thing I am drawing being the composition rather than accurate form or details. Then find the reference that I need and re-imagine it in the position that I need it.
Finally, when it comes to art, the ends justify the means. Use reference, trace if you need to, I personally don't know any artists who don't do both of those things.
I hope some of that is useful, as I said before, all personal experience and opinion, I already know that I draw almost the exact opposite of EntropyXII, from what he has suggested. So hopefully nobody is put off posting more advice by disagreeing with me entirely!
@ZelgadisGW - Well they would be my interpretation on things. It seems that you would be focussing too much on what you're doing wrong. Trying hard to correct those things may be standing in your way. let your pencil flow and develop your own style. Your work will end up being unique in it's own way.
It is always difficult to use somebody else's work as a reference, because in many ways you are attempting to replicate somebody else's style. This is difficult.
I might be able to help you with 'how to begin' a drawing. I personally love drawing people, portraits in particular. Over the years I have developed an ability to not have to 'sketch' when I draw but it might be different for you. For faces I always begin drawing the nose. The top of the nose in particular - just one side to begin with. This lays a basis for any lighting to which I want to introduce to a drawing. I will then move onto an eye. After I am happy with the shape of the eye, I turn my page so the eye is vertical. I then attempt to replicate a similar symmetry.
After the eyes are done I move onto the lips. A good way for a beginner to differentiate between male and female is through the lips. For men only draw the full outline for the upper lip. The bottom lip can be shown with a faint line getting thicker to the centre of the lip. For women, draw the lips completely. This creates the illusion of full lips. Once you get better you will be able to master the technique for men as well.
Face shape, ears and then hair come after. Ear's can be a tricky one, and hair is really simple to do unless you're looking for intense detail - for a sketch or drawing I wouldn't worry to much. Get the basics right first.
All of the above works for manga, lifelike, or western animation/comics.
@Moomintroll The problem is not the particular person being more skillful, but the fact that I suck very badly in comparison. I feel hopeless, talentless because gap between our skills is that huge*. The fact that I suck at what I am doing already damaged my self-confidence and it is discouraging. My goal is to become good at something I like, but how I can measure my (non-existent) improvement, if I don't compare myself with people? Thank you for the tips, thought.
*Turning envy into inspiration is really hard, you know.
@EntropyXII Tracing is stricly against my policy, since I think it is disrespectful towards original artist. You know, someone had to draw this thing, with sense of depth, right perspective, anatomy, interesting poses etc. When tracing, I feel like cheating.
I also don't like using references, since that indicates I cannot draw by myself, but if they are method to raise my skills, then I am willing to use them.
And thank you for tips regarding drawing faces. I've never thought before that nose can be used as a basic for lighting.
This is not as good as the original I found but its pretty much the same thing:
The point being of course that being frustrated at your progress never really goes away. You get better, your expectations rise as you see your own errors better and a large % of people feel the same way. You are in good company, beginner or not
I also don't like using references, since that indicates I cannot draw by myself, but if they are method to raise my skills, then I am willing to use them.
@ZelgadisGW I really suggest you reconsider your attitude about references. Using them doesn't mean you are lesser somehow. Even experienced, professional artists use references. Depend on them, in fact.
Once you have enough experience in, say, drawing the human body, then you can make up a convincing person out of your head. But it still won't look as lifelike as the one you draw from a model.
So be proud to use references! That is a mark of a serious artist.
I also don't like using references, since that indicates I cannot draw by myself, but if they are method to raise my skills, then I am willing to use them.
Sometimes they are used simply to study the hard-to-see details, or just study in general; whether that be proportions, textures, or colours. Lots of artists use references. Shameless plug: Mass Effect references.
I don't think there is a problem with using references, provided that people don't try to trace or paint over them.
I always found, in fact, that if I don't use references for all my character illustrations, all my characters end up looking exactly the same if not similar.
At this moment I have about 3/4 faces I have created and perfected over a period of lets say.... 17 years. You will actually be surprised how difficult it is to create a persons face and their features from scratch - and provide your characters with an air of individuality.
This is why, for my portraits, I have asked friends and members of these forums to be models for me. You can bet BG2 portraits were created from sketches or photographs of real people - as with most character artwork out there.
I have realized that I never properly said thanks for all advices I got. So, thank you, guys and gals. It was kind from you.
Especially, the link Klonoa provided. It gave me some understanding and I started to draw "from life", or more specificaly, from photos. Not everyone I want to learn can be drawn by just looking at my nearest envoirment.
New portrait up. Spent absolutely ages on this one - even nearly gave up at one point. I used a hand drawn sketch of a friend of mine for this portrait, and I think from now on this is how I should do all my portraits. It turned out much better.
I studied the BG2 portraits at length and I think I learned quite a bit. Also enlisted some amazing help. Thank you @Artastrophe for all the advice!
@Klonoa - Not as much time as I spent on this one. I was determined to get it as 'correct' as possible this time!
I experienced a rollercoaster of emotions the past 2-3 weeks. Frustration, anger, fury, annoyance, despair, sadness, resignation and joy all come to mind.. xD
@EntropyXII I really like your portraits Your proportions and expressions are great! I did notice one tiny thing that I could crit on maybe, if ya wanna hear it XD I dunno some people don't so up to you
@EntropyXII Alright well, I noticed that while you have some nice realistic faces, the coloring on the skin seems really smooth. I think it would look a bit more realistic with some skin texture and whatnot. I don't even do digital so I'm probably not even qualified to give advice on it, but I did recall this post on digital skin painting on a blog a while back: http://muddycolors.blogspot.ca/2012/08/digital-skin.html The last picture in that kind of explains what I mean better than I do typing it out lol
Comments
Try not to be put off by someone younger having "more skill," lucky them! but if the goal is simply being better than other people rather than bettering yourself, you will be disappointed, I guarantee.
If manga is what you are interested in I wouldn't know where to begin as I was under the impression it was based on mannerism rather than observation. If that's the case I would go about copying as much of the stuff that I liked, as possible.
Some of your points
-Shading: Can be a matter of style, there are lots of artists that use simple line with no tone. But even
if you use some simple shading you will add form and composition not present from the structural lines alone. If you are put off shading after your line-drawing; try not using line as a step before tone, use them both together.
-Colour: I think really depends on the medium you are applying it with. if you can aim to get it right first time without layering though, you'll be off to a good start.
-Perspective: Personally, I am not a fan of horizons lines and think you can do fine without them. They can be useful if you get stuck on something but I find using them from the start can be needlessly complicated and make a drawing look rigid.
If you are having trouble coming up with something from scratch, what I do is to do a bad drawing of what I want, the important thing I am drawing being the composition rather than accurate form or details. Then find the reference that I need and re-imagine it in the position that I need it.
Finally, when it comes to art, the ends justify the means. Use reference, trace if you need to, I personally don't know any artists who don't do both of those things.
I hope some of that is useful, as I said before, all personal experience and opinion, I already know that I draw almost the exact opposite of EntropyXII, from what he has suggested. So hopefully nobody is put off posting more advice by disagreeing with me entirely!
It is always difficult to use somebody else's work as a reference, because in many ways you are attempting to replicate somebody else's style. This is difficult.
I might be able to help you with 'how to begin' a drawing. I personally love drawing people, portraits in particular. Over the years I have developed an ability to not have to 'sketch' when I draw but it might be different for you. For faces I always begin drawing the nose. The top of the nose in particular - just one side to begin with. This lays a basis for any lighting to which I want to introduce to a drawing. I will then move onto an eye. After I am happy with the shape of the eye, I turn my page so the eye is vertical. I then attempt to replicate a similar symmetry.
After the eyes are done I move onto the lips. A good way for a beginner to differentiate between male and female is through the lips. For men only draw the full outline for the upper lip. The bottom lip can be shown with a faint line getting thicker to the centre of the lip. For women, draw the lips completely. This creates the illusion of full lips. Once you get better you will be able to master the technique for men as well.
Face shape, ears and then hair come after. Ear's can be a tricky one, and hair is really simple to do unless you're looking for intense detail - for a sketch or drawing I wouldn't worry to much. Get the basics right first.
All of the above works for manga, lifelike, or western animation/comics.
The problem is not the particular person being more skillful, but the fact that I suck very badly in comparison. I feel hopeless, talentless because gap between our skills is that huge*. The fact that I suck at what I am doing already damaged my self-confidence and it is discouraging. My goal is to become good at something I like, but how I can measure my (non-existent) improvement, if I don't compare myself with people? Thank you for the tips, thought.
*Turning envy into inspiration is really hard, you know.
@EntropyXII
Tracing is stricly against my policy, since I think it is disrespectful towards original artist. You know, someone had to draw this thing, with sense of depth, right perspective, anatomy, interesting poses etc. When tracing, I feel like cheating.
I also don't like using references, since that indicates I cannot draw by myself, but if they are method to raise my skills, then I am willing to use them.
And thank you for tips regarding drawing faces. I've never thought before that nose can be used as a basic for lighting.
The point being of course that being frustrated at your progress never really goes away. You get better, your expectations rise as you see your own errors better and a large % of people feel the same way. You are in good company, beginner or not
Some reading material:
http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/art-discussion/the-meaning-of-life-drawing-and-how-to-draw-in-any-style/t.69784179_1/
I really suggest you reconsider your attitude about references. Using them doesn't mean you are lesser somehow. Even experienced, professional artists use references. Depend on them, in fact.
Once you have enough experience in, say, drawing the human body, then you can make up a convincing person out of your head. But it still won't look as lifelike as the one you draw from a model.
So be proud to use references! That is a mark of a serious artist.
Also, if you are looking for some good instructional materials, you can download free PDFs of Andrew Loomis books from
http://illustrationage.com/2013/04/02/free-andrew-loomis-art-instruction-downloads/
I don't think there is a problem with using references, provided that people don't try to trace or paint over them.
At this moment I have about 3/4 faces I have created and perfected over a period of lets say.... 17 years. You will actually be surprised how difficult it is to create a persons face and their features from scratch - and provide your characters with an air of individuality.
This is why, for my portraits, I have asked friends and members of these forums to be models for me. You can bet BG2 portraits were created from sketches or photographs of real people - as with most character artwork out there.
Especially, the link Klonoa provided. It gave me some understanding and I started to draw "from life", or more specificaly, from photos. Not everyone I want to learn can be drawn by just looking at my nearest envoirment.
New portrait up. Spent absolutely ages on this one - even nearly gave up at one point. I used a hand drawn sketch of a friend of mine for this portrait, and I think from now on this is how I should do all my portraits. It turned out much better.
I studied the BG2 portraits at length and I think I learned quite a bit. Also enlisted some amazing help. Thank you @Artastrophe for all the advice!
What do you guys think?
I experienced a rollercoaster of emotions the past 2-3 weeks. Frustration, anger, fury, annoyance, despair, sadness, resignation and joy all come to mind.. xD
@EntropyXII I really like your portraits
Alright