@OYME: I see your point. However, just as a technicality, Viconia is a fine Cleric but not quite that exceptional - with the Tomes, you can build your own character into an even more powerful Cleric than her. (But yes, Edwin's special amulet makes him unmatchable as a pure Mage.)
Well we could call Minsc "bland" because he's "just a ranger" but we know better than that, don't we?
No. No I don't. I seriously fail to see what is so captivating about Minsc. Dumb benevolent brute who has an affinity for furry animals? He's a cliché.
Not to mention a bully who tries to kill you if you don't help him, like you owe him something.
True, he's particularly unlikeable in BG1; he seems very Chaotic Neutral honestly. In BGII, he at least gives you the vibe that he has your back.
I liked Minsc on my first playthroughs ("LOL MINATURE SPACE HAMSTER? THAT'S HILARIOUS! HE HAS HEAD TRAUMA! LOL!!!"), but now I just find him pretty annoying. I don't find him to be that useful; he's certainly not much of a Ranger, but he lacks Fighter perks. And his berserk causes him to just bash everyone. He's not BAD, not by any means, but I don't think he's all that great, either, and I don't like his personality.
What I like about Baldur's Gate is that even in the midst of a gloomy story about a Deity of Murder and cursed bloodlines, the game will constantly remind you that it doesn't take itself too seriously by throwing in some humor. Sometimes it's subtle, to reward those who pay attention, sometimes it's in your face, because every entertaining story needs some comic relief.
Minsc is like Pippin Took on the Lord of the Rings movies (I don't think that's how he's handled in the books), or like C-3PO on the original Star Wars trilogy. Taste in humor will always divide people and he should be no exception. Me, I love him. Jim Cummings is an immensely talented VO and I really think Minsc is among his best work.
And as far as effective NPCs go, he's up there with everyone else. You have to be a powergamer to start getting overly critical of any NPC, and that's perfectly fine, since there's no wrong opinion about these aspects of the game, but...
Hoping for a neutral thief to go along with all parties. I want to bring a good thief without having to make charname one. And a 4th new romance (and hopefully 4 new adventures) makes me have to roll 4 new charnames for the playthroughs. Also looking forwards to the bangers.
Technically you can make a MUCH better BG then Dorn. Other then his 19 str he has literally nothing going for him, and you can match that with a strength manual (or even rolling for 18/00 is only a 1 damage, 100 wieght difference)...and even if you don't count that, he isn't eligible for the +3 str bonus an evil PC can get later which is exclusive to the player's character.
Similarly, giving her a kit - especially Assassin or Shadowdancer - is problematic because she'd have fewer skill points, which undermines the whole reason she exists in the first place.
Fewer skill points are no problem in BG2, where your starting level for a Thief is something like 10. Even for an Assassin, that means 40 + 9x15 = 175 skill points, and you'll be getting more every level.
Meanwhile as a pure Thief you will eventually reach a level at which you'll have more points than you know what to do with, and it will feel "wasted".
Well, we play not only BG2 but also BG1 (and EE), don't we? And characters in BG1 don't have kits. But still they are attractive enough, name Ajantis, Shar-Teel, Imoen, Safana, Branwen... The fact they are unkitted don't stop us from using them. Moreover, do they suffer so much from not having any kits?
I see absolutely no problem in Hexxat not having a kit. Her personality can interest me, her dialogs and quests can interest me, her special items can interest me. These things combined with the fact I have never used her before make it quite intriguing to me. Her kit or no kit at all is not so important.
Moreover, if an NPC is not the class YOU want, your main character can make up for it. Want a swashy, a bounty hunter, a shadowdancer and Hexxat is a pure thief? No problem. Just become a swashy, a bounty hunter, a shadowdancer yourself and cover those areas Hexxat is not specialized in.
Giving the only pure thief NPC (not dual-class or multiclass) in BG2 a kit means you can find it too narrow and not suitable for your party while not giving her a kit means much more parties will find a place for her.
That's the great pro of creating your own hero - he will have exatly those traits you want him to have. And in the same time that's the good side of NPCs - they always stay themselves and gradually you begin to feel something towards them - eighter love or hate.
Fewer skill points are no problem in BG2, where your starting level for a Thief is something like 10. Even for an Assassin, that means 40 + 9x15 = 175 skill points, and you'll be getting more every level.
True, but even assuming you can get Hexxat early on, you can't determine the distribution of those existing skill points - it's the Alora problem all over again, where by the time you get to her she's put most of her focus in Pick Pocket rather than Find Traps or Pick Locks.
@blackchimes, to be perfectly frank, I think you're missing Bengoshi's point. It's not "BG1 NPCs don't have kits, so why should Hexxat?" it's "BG1 NPCs don't need kits (or even that many lines) to be interesting, so clearly it's perfectly possible to be interesting without a kit."
@shawne, you're partially right. If Beamdog screws up Hexxat's skill distribution, that could be problematic. On the other hand, the existing BG2 thieves all have fairly sensible starting skill distributions (except possibly Nalia, who doesn't have enough points anyway). One would assume Beamdog knows by now what the minimal necessary thief skills are (find traps and open locks) and will have her put a bunch of points into them. Remaining stuff will probably go into stealth unless she's a swashbuckler, and if she's a swashbuckler I don't really care that much where the rest of it goes. So I don't think there's all that much to worry about, really.
I would assume she will be "evil" but changing to neutral / good somewhere down the line.
A super sexy bad girl, who fell in with the wrong crowd and now must do the bidding of the truly evil big boss man. Deep down, under all of the revealing outfits and emotional issues is a heart of gold, waiting to be redeemed by EEforum member x right ??? A year plus of Viconia worship on here, not that i'm entirely against that of course, surely has to count for something come EE2 .
i wouldnt mind if she's and evil thief, imoen with the ring of lock picks and danger sense gets over 100 points in open locks and find traps, so i use her as a thief for my good parties all the time, plus i think having mage perks are better than the thief ones ( except i like use any item, not much of a fan of trap setting and backstabbing which is what thieves are really made for)
Thanks a lot, @Jarrakul! It's so important to feel some support.
I'll try to give another explanation, @blackchimes.
1) I like an NPC not because he or she has a certain kit but because he or she has a deep personality, interesting dialogs, quests with unexpected twists and so on.
If I had a choice, I would choose quests and communication with other characters any day instead of a certain kit.
People find something in Safana and Shar-Teel who have no kits - they do it because these NPCs have something in them, something special. Eigther it's in BG1 or in BG2 - it doesn't matter much. An NPC means much more than his or her kit.
So if Hexxat will be a good-written NPC (and I'm sure it will be so, the devs will not disappoint), I'll take it gladly, no matter if she's a vanilla thief or not.
2) It's difficult to please everyone successively. That's why we have an option to create our own character - he's ment to please the taste of the gamer perfectly. If you want to test a certain kit, you can give it to the main character.
Regarding NPCs, it's a different story. An ideal Mary Sue will quickly become boring. We feel something towards NPCs not only because of their advantages. Gradually we understand him or her and take him or her as he or she is.
3) If the devs give a certain NPC a certain kit, this NPC becomes too specialized to a certain extent. If he or she is more general, he or she will suit more parties and combinations. And it is greatly important in this particular case as Hexxat will be the only pure thief NPC (not dual-class or multiclass) in the game.
@true_shinken Rasaad is going to turn into a bit of an unkillable combat monster, as do all monks at level 13 or so. With a little bit of gear he'll be a very solid party investment.
@true_shinken Rasaad is going to turn into a bit of an unkillable combat monster, as do all monks at level 13 or so. With a little bit of gear he'll be a very solid party investment.
Yeah, I know, it's kind of ironic to drop him when he actually becomes powerful. I don't know which I care about most, a combat monster on my side or having Imoen simply because it makes sense.
I'm really excited to see the interactions between this new thief and the other NPCs (not to mention Dorn and the others). It's going to be awesome to have 4 new NPC back stories, banters and quests.
As was done with Dorn, Neera, and Rasaad, I really hope Hexxat's portrait and a snippet of her back-story will be shared with us before BG2:EE is released. We have meta-gaming to do, after all! ^.^
Comments
Minsc is like Pippin Took on the Lord of the Rings movies (I don't think that's how he's handled in the books), or like C-3PO on the original Star Wars trilogy. Taste in humor will always divide people and he should be no exception. Me, I love him. Jim Cummings is an immensely talented VO and I really think Minsc is among his best work.
And as far as effective NPCs go, he's up there with everyone else. You have to be a powergamer to start getting overly critical of any NPC, and that's perfectly fine, since there's no wrong opinion about these aspects of the game, but...
...but now, Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!
Meanwhile as a pure Thief you will eventually reach a level at which you'll have more points than you know what to do with, and it will feel "wasted".
I see absolutely no problem in Hexxat not having a kit. Her personality can interest me, her dialogs and quests can interest me, her special items can interest me. These things combined with the fact I have never used her before make it quite intriguing to me. Her kit or no kit at all is not so important.
Moreover, if an NPC is not the class YOU want, your main character can make up for it. Want a swashy, a bounty hunter, a shadowdancer and Hexxat is a pure thief? No problem. Just become a swashy, a bounty hunter, a shadowdancer yourself and cover those areas Hexxat is not specialized in.
Giving the only pure thief NPC (not dual-class or multiclass) in BG2 a kit means you can find it too narrow and not suitable for your party while not giving her a kit means much more parties will find a place for her.
That's the great pro of creating your own hero - he will have exatly those traits you want him to have. And in the same time that's the good side of NPCs - they always stay themselves and gradually you begin to feel something towards them - eighter love or hate.
@shawne, you're partially right. If Beamdog screws up Hexxat's skill distribution, that could be problematic. On the other hand, the existing BG2 thieves all have fairly sensible starting skill distributions (except possibly Nalia, who doesn't have enough points anyway). One would assume Beamdog knows by now what the minimal necessary thief skills are (find traps and open locks) and will have her put a bunch of points into them. Remaining stuff will probably go into stealth unless she's a swashbuckler, and if she's a swashbuckler I don't really care that much where the rest of it goes. So I don't think there's all that much to worry about, really.
A super sexy bad girl, who fell in with the wrong crowd and now must do the bidding of the truly evil big boss man. Deep down, under all of the revealing outfits and emotional issues is a heart of gold, waiting to be redeemed by EEforum member x right ???
A year plus of Viconia worship on here, not that i'm entirely against that of course, surely has to count for something come EE2
I'll try to give another explanation, @blackchimes.
1) I like an NPC not because he or she has a certain kit but because he or she has a deep personality, interesting dialogs, quests with unexpected twists and so on.
If I had a choice, I would choose quests and communication with other characters any day instead of a certain kit.
People find something in Safana and Shar-Teel who have no kits - they do it because these NPCs have something in them, something special. Eigther it's in BG1 or in BG2 - it doesn't matter much. An NPC means much more than his or her kit.
So if Hexxat will be a good-written NPC (and I'm sure it will be so, the devs will not disappoint), I'll take it gladly, no matter if she's a vanilla thief or not.
2) It's difficult to please everyone successively. That's why we have an option to create our own character - he's ment to please the taste of the gamer perfectly. If you want to test a certain kit, you can give it to the main character.
Regarding NPCs, it's a different story. An ideal Mary Sue will quickly become boring. We feel something towards NPCs not only because of their advantages. Gradually we understand him or her and take him or her as he or she is.
3) If the devs give a certain NPC a certain kit, this NPC becomes too specialized to a certain extent. If he or she is more general, he or she will suit more parties and combinations. And it is greatly important in this particular case as Hexxat will be the only pure thief NPC (not dual-class or multiclass) in the game.
...OR DO THEY?
dundunDUNNNNNN