There is *always* a way to improve. The old feminist problem is that there are just to many stupid and crazy people out there who go by that name and I *really* don't want to be thrown into the same pot as them. Also, I never felt being in a worse position just because I am not male (if you don't count standing while uriniating). Maybe that's a different thing in other countries, but I always felt equal. So why would I fight to gain something that I already have?
There is *always* a way to improve. The old feminist problem is that there are just to many stupid and crazy people out there who go by that name and I *really* don't want to be thrown into the same pot as them. Also, I never felt being in a worse position just because I am not male (if you don't count standing while uriniating). Maybe that's a different thing in other countries, but I always felt equal. So why would I fight to gain something that I already have?
I would argue that you have been faced with socially-imposed obstacles that you might not have even been aware of - most sexism isn't overt and in your face anymore, it's built subtly into our cultures and institutions. One example: Women are 51-52% of the world's population, yet they own only 1% of the world's land/contracts...in 2013. It's not that they're being blatantly denied the right to buy it, but that our social systems are structured in such a way as to be naturally disadvantageous to them.
...But I suppose that's a discussion for another thread. I do respect your opinion and your experience, and am glad to hear that you've felt so empowered
To the topic of why there are male fathers in the games but no females: That's so obvious it hurts. (Well, to me at least)
1. It's a normal thing in society for fathers go to war, always has been. Female soldiers are still not the norm and let alone the idea is new. It's because of the old roles of that men work while woman stay at home to raise the children.
Women have always fought. Now it's true that men have fought in greater proportion throughout history, but it's misleading to suggest that it's a new thing to have women on the front lines. The idea that women in combat is new is used to gloss over these past instances and preserve the notion that women are somehow unfit for combat, that it's "unrealistic" for a woman to be a mother and a fighter (it's also created a lot of headaches in archaeology, where they'll find two bodies, one with a spear and one with jewelry, and think "male" and "female," respectively, without even checking the damn bones).
Ah, I get what you are aiming at. What you say is true but you can't force change. The change will come naturally. I mean, you can't simply go and strip 50% of all men of their possesions and give them to women just to make it equal. The change has to come from within. Not to mention that we live in a world of halfbaked globalization in which still countries exists where woman have practically no rights at all. So I really shouldn't complain as a "first world" person. I am a lucky one.
@Kaigen: I know that there always have been female soldiers but never nearly as many as male soldiers at least not in our current civilization. I am speaking of gender stereotypes here and stereotypes are aaaaaall over the place in videogames.
@Buttercheese Perhaps. But if you want to see "natural" change, then a decent place to start is not letting storytellers get away with using lazy, inaccurate stereotypes. And if we ask why there are not examples of single mothers fighting, the excuse should not be "it's unrealistic" or "it doesn't happen" because we know full well it does happen and continues to happen. The problem is not a lack of numbers but a refusal to acknowledge its existence.
Nothing is done when men are more likely the victims of violence, because men are perpetrators. Nothing is done about men having nearly double the rate of completed suicides to women, because men are less likely to have hope. Nothing is done about boys failing more and more at school as curricula is introduced that promotes techniques unsuited to their education, because men are stupid.
I would very much endorse gender parity in all respects, but equality doesn't seem to mean what it should.
On-topic: Did that Viconia and Edwina dialogue occur in Vanilla? It's just strange that Overhaul put in dialogue for NPC's that already existed.
Nothing is done when men are more likely the victims of violence, because men are perpetrators. Nothing is done about men having nearly double the rate of completed suicides to women, because men are less likely to have hope. Nothing is done about boys failing more and more at school as curricula is introduced that promotes techniques unsuited to their education, because men are stupid.
I would very much endorse gender parity in all respects, but equality doesn't seem to mean what it should.
On-topic: Did that Viconia and Edwina dialogue occur in Vanilla? It's just strange that Overhaul put in dialogue for NPC's that already existed.
Yep, men are absolutely harmed by patriarchal systems, just in a different way. Our culture encourages women to succeed, but it *expects* men to succeed and can therefore be less kind to them when they happen to struggle. Even though the assumption is perpetuated via patriarchy, it actually harms both genders.
There is *always* a way to improve. The old feminist problem is that there are just to many stupid and crazy people out there who go by that name and I *really* don't want to be thrown into the same pot as them.
Straw feminists don't actually exist in any meaningful sense. They are a creation of the people that oppose feminism.
Also, I never felt being in a worse position just because I am not male (if you don't count standing while uriniating). Maybe that's a different thing in other countries, but I always felt equal. So why would I fight to gain something that I already have?
Germany has one of the widest gaps in wages between men and women in Europe. But hey, continue to believe "I don't feel personally affected by statistically proven discrimination, so I have decided it doesn't exist".
Nothing is done when men are more likely the victims of violence, because men are perpetrators. Nothing is done about men having nearly double the rate of completed suicides to women, because men are less likely to have hope. Nothing is done about boys failing more and more at school as curricula is introduced that promotes techniques unsuited to their education, because men are stupid.
It's soooooo hard to be man in a woman's world. ;_; Also, literally everything you just said is untrue (in the sense of your assertion that nothing is done about any of these issues). It's even more ridiculous for you to say that, given it's Movember (you can google it if you don't know what that's about). Problems affecting men are generally not just ignored by society at large.
I would very much endorse gender parity in all respects, but equality doesn't seem to mean what it should.
If you very much endorse gender equality, you might want to emphasise the problems faced by the gender that has by far the most oppression, instead of being outraged at the relatively few (if not unimportant) issues affecting the politically, culturally and financially dominant gender.
Germany has one of the widest gaps in wages between men and women in Europe. But hey, continue to believe "I don't feel personally affected by statistically proven discrimination, so I have decided it doesn't exist".
These studies are never controlled for age, profession and work experience. Once you control for those things, the difference in pay between genders shrinks to 1€ or less. Women often choose careers that do not earn as much money as male dominated career paths. Women also go on parental break far more frequently than men, which means that they pause their career for a few years and do not earn money. This is not because of some ill defined sexism in German society, but because of pragmatism. If a woman is more likely to become a teacher in primary school or a nurse, then she is also likely to earn less than her husband, which results in the woman going on parental break once children arive. All this combines to appear like some issue of sexism is at work, while it all comes down to personal choice. If the free choice of a woman on how she wants to earn her money and live her life is discrimination, then feminism did a fine job of twisting words.
If you very much endorse gender equality, you might want to emphasise the problems faced by the gender that has by far the most oppression, instead of being outraged at the relatively few (if not unimportant) issues affecting the politically, culturally and financially dominant gender.
Equality in front of the law was reached somewhere in the 70s in Germany. Everything else came down to society and the individuals making up the very same. Those intangible aspects have steadily improved. Today it's nothing worth noting to see female doctors, policemen, bankers, car mechanics or plumbers. We Germans even had a female head of government since almost a decade now and female ministers long before that. It's even come to the point were our political cabaretists make jokes about the qualities of our Bundeskanzlerin, instead of her looks. I don't know what warlord rules your african hellhole, but here things are great for equality.
Yeah...no true scotsman. But that's false. I've read some feminist literature. There were and are some crazy feminists out there.
Straw feminists do not exist in a meaningful sense, and "crazy" is not a statistically significant portion of the feminist movement. Congratulations on being taken in by propaganda; you're not alone, but propaganda it is.
These studies are never controlled for age, profession and work experience. Once you control for those things, the difference in pay between genders shrinks to 1€ or less.
You're wrong. I realise I'm not going to convince you, but you are no less wrong for all that.
Germany has one of the widest gaps in wages between men and women in Europe. But hey, continue to believe "I don't feel personally affected by statistically proven discrimination, so I have decided it doesn't exist".
These studies are never controlled for age, profession and work experience. Once you control for those things, the difference in pay between genders shrinks to 1€ or less. Women often choose careers that do not earn as much money as male dominated career paths. Women also go on parental break far more frequently than men, which means that they pause their career for a few years and do not earn money. This is not because of some ill defined sexism in German society, but because of pragmatism. If a woman is more likely to become a teacher in primary school or a nurse, then she is also likely to earn less than her husband, which results in the woman going on parental break once children arive. All this combines to appear like some issue of sexism is at work, while it all comes down to personal choice. If the free choice of a woman on how she wants to earn her money and live her life is discrimination, then feminism did a fine job of twisting words.
If you very much endorse gender equality, you might want to emphasise the problems faced by the gender that has by far the most oppression, instead of being outraged at the relatively few (if not unimportant) issues affecting the politically, culturally and financially dominant gender.
Equality in front of the law was reached somewhere in the 70s in Germany. Everything else came down to society and the individuals making up the very same. Those intangible aspects have steadily improved. Today it's nothing worth noting to see female doctors, policemen, bankers, car mechanics or plumbers. We Germans even had a female head of government since almost a decade now and female ministers long before that. It's even come to the point were our political cabaretists make jokes about the qualities of our Bundeskanzlerin, instead of her looks. I don't know what warlord rules your african hellhole, but here things are great for equality.
Sigh, I was waiting for this.
First off, what "feminist literature" have you read? I'd love to compare notes.
The problem with your argument - dismissing statistics as inherently flawed and defining social trends/norms as "personal choice" - is that it attempts to discredit opposing arguments before they even appear. Inequality doesn't exist, men and women are just different, er, because they choose to be.
It's really convenient actually. Why are only a small fraction of women CEOs? Because women don't want to be CEOs! You know what women want? Babies! Lots and lots of babies!
...or maybe women trend towards lower-paying careers because even in 2013 research has shown that schoolteachers unconsciously encourage students toward different subjects on the basis of gender. Maybe it's because higher-paying jobs have been virtually inaccessible to women until recently, or because higher-paying workplaces have been structured by and for men (who since childhood are exposed to more hierarchical/competitive power structures than women are). When you're talking about sociology, "personal choice" is almost always far too simple an answer.
If gender inequality is over in your country because you've elected a female Chancellor, then I suppose racism is over in America because we elected a black president. Laws and precedents are great steps forward, but they're not capable of ending systemic inequality on their own.
Get over it and enjoy the game. Men and women are different by nature, so stop trying to pretend we are all equal. Women are good at some things and prone to think a certain way, because that's how nature made them and the same goes for men. Ofcourse, every human being should have the same options if they choose to pursue them, but please stop ruining a perfectly good thread with this discussion. BG forum is not the place to post propaganda about gender equality/inequality.
The new dialogues eer on the side of clichés, but guess what - it's funny! Neera cracked me up several times and I simply love how her character was written. It only gets better once you roll a sex change on the wild surge table. I was flat on my ass laughing and chuckling to myself all the way through the WIld Forest. They've made the dialogues much more perky and I'd love to see more of that.
Might I also point out, that there is no shortage of strong, female protagonists in the game. We are running around in a medieval-fantasy-kinda-environment, so if you've got complaints, then just think of the game as accurately representing a male dominated medieval society.
@Purudaya Well, sorry, those statistics include all men and women of working age and only compare the total income. They're faulty. No other way to say it. If one wants to compare the pay gap between genders, then why not look at specific circumstances where the only remaining factor is gender? Because then it wouldn't be such a headline. Here's an argument I heard some time ago. If women were truly cheaper to hire by a quarter, how come men are still hired?
My mother gave me literature to read on theories about gender and feminism. She also debated me on some of the works. It's been years, but some of the books were written by Alice Schwarzer, a well known German feminist. Schwarzer is the face of German feminism and totally a crazy. She was a founding member of the 'PorNO' campaign, which had ridiculous goals. Here's an example I remember vividly. Fetish porn is sexist and degrading to women, because it shows women in a literally subservient role to men, being whipped and degraded. In the same chapter of her own book, Schwarzer also wrote that fetish porn is sexist and degrading to women, because it shows women whipping and degrading men, purely as instruments for male sexual fantasies. This woman is not some unknown feminist with a tumblr. Schwarzer was for many decades the most public German feminist and chief publisher of the biggest German magazine for feminism, called Emma. But I'm sure I made her up to argue on the internet. Here's a discussion you might find interesting. I watched it a few years back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5rt3tsHxi8. There are english subtitles available, though I don't know how well it's translated.
That's all I wanted to say on the matter of feminism. Peace please. Let's talk about innuendos in the dialogue of a videogame.
I would argue that you have been faced with socially-imposed obstacles that you might not have even been aware of - most sexism isn't overt and in your face anymore, it's built subtly into our cultures and institutions. One example: Women are 51-52% of the world's population, yet they own only 1% of the world's land/contracts...in 2013. It's not that they're being blatantly denied the right to buy it, but that our social systems are structured in such a way as to be naturally disadvantageous to them.
That is an extremely misleading statement (if even true). How much land is owned/claimed by government bodies, corporations, trusts etc etc. How about we ask how many people have a claim to land in total? That is, are there only 20% of people who actually own land (a hypothetical figure). Of that 20%, how many of those are female or male, or both? Apply these figures to OUR culture, or more specifically, the developed western world. I think you'd find men and women are on fairly equal footing, especially when applied to younger demographics (the present and future).
But don't let me despute your vague and sensalionalist 'stat' pulled straight from your rear end. Not to mention that there are absolutely NO specific bars on women against land ownership. There are no bars on professions. In fact it is bloody illegal to discrimate based on sex where I come from. Really sick of this baseless feminist crap that isn't applicable in my country.
As for the crap about germany, they're one of the most liberal and forward thinking cultures on the planet. The engineer that manages our department is a 34 year old german! She manages engineers that are senior to her by decades! Our Senior HR manager is a WOMAN. Half my office are female professionals... Even if you 'feel' there are blocks, name the legislation that is preventing them from a professional career based purely on their sex? Name the social institution that can legally bar woman from admittance.
Don't use the well worn army excuse either, since that is a singular life or death profession. Whether you like it or not, there is sexual dimorphism in humans. Men are larger than females, FACT. They are born with more muscle tissue, and the inherently aggressive hormone called testosterone floods their bodies. In a profession based purely on physical power and aggression, it is natural that in SOME of the world's militaries, an emphasis is given on male frontline soldiers.
At any rate, and this is where all this comes undone, equality comes from balance, not from women and men being the exact same. The german woman who manages me could intellectually run circles around me, but the fact that she is 5'8" 45kg and I'm 6'2" 100kg means that I am physcially stronger, FACT. We are not equal because of identical traits, we are identical because our traits balance one another. Our rights in society (OUR society), should and are equal as a result. Stop living 30 years in the past, take off the blinkers and realise that the bars holding you back are a figment of your imagination (or an excuse?)
Hey, would you like me to post 10 more? How about 100 more? And while those mostly centred on racism, be assured I could find similarly endless amounts on discrimination against women and unequal treatment.
Now, nothing I see convinces me Germany is particularly worse than Europe as a whole on discrimination against women and minorities, but it is certainly not better, and even less so is it free of the problem.
I'm keeping a very close eye on this thread. If you are going to continue this debate please do so in the Off Topic forum, in a polite and sensitive way. Let's get this one back on topic, please.
what the..... they're all about racism. Racism as in it is a problem everywhere on the planet. I could pull 1000s of those types of NEWS articles (lol, pinacle of objectivity) related to racism in the US, or any other country for that matter. I thought this was about gender inequality...
But way to ignore everything I said about gender inequality. You quote an anecdotal definition as a snide retort, but give nothing to retort my assertion that it is illegal to sexually descriminate. How about you just go out and buy a house, no one will stop you, especially not the big bad man. Go and study at univerity, no one will stop you, especially not the big bad man. Go and drink at a bar, no one will stop you, especially not the big bad man
I'm keeping a very close eye on this thread. If you are going to continue this debate please do so in the Off Topic forum, in a polite and sensitive way. Let's get this one back on topic, please.
Yeah, this is one of those topics where nobody is ever going to change anybody else's mind. We're all here to enjoy a game, which has been increasingly easier to forget lately
Back on topic, I just finished a BG2:EE dialogue with neera not-so-subtly comparing the big O to a wild surge (if you haven't had this dialogue, it still feels completely tasteful). Thanks for not going all Disney on us, devs - the writing has been a blast so far
I'm somewhat curious how the gender equality/parity discussion relates to "Did the dialogue get a lot more kinky?", exactly... Edit: Ah, seems moderation has already happened. Nevermind me, then.
So, I noticed that a lot of the newly added dialouges are a lot more bedroom talk.
Don't get me wrong, this is not a complaint, just an observation ~
I mean, in the original, the characters tended to talk through the flower, like we say around here. Let alone making snarky sex jokes (which are a hilarious addition btw).
Maybe it's all just my immagination. Maybe not.
If not, how come that you guys could add that stuff? Wasn't the original game PG-13 or something?
Oh no, the original games never made references to sex.
@Autequi Someone didn't understand the startpost, appearently ~ "Through the flower" means that you talk about something but not bluntly. Stupid example: Birds & Bees = Sexual intercourse. It basically means: You need to be old enough to get the actual meaning.
Another thing is, that before EE, I never played Balur's Gate in english, so I assume that many things where simply lost in translation. Such as Imoen's "trollops and plugtails" line.
@Everyone: PS: Since the "Politely debate over the roles of women in videogames" turned into "Let's throw random 'facts' about women in society at each other and insult each other", I will ignore that part from now on and concentrate on the starting topic again. To bad, this was such a nice conversation we had.
I will try paying more attention on this stuff on my next playthrough, maybe I really simply didn't notice. Maybe Viconia's and Hexxat's dialouges just made me aware of the whole stuff xD (These two, I swear ...)
Same reason why there's no fat girl option. Or games where you flip burgers all day and get yelled at by your boss. Sure, it may be closer to realism for some, but how many people actually want to pay money to experience that?
Comments
There is *always* a way to improve. The old feminist problem is that there are just to many stupid and crazy people out there who go by that name and I *really* don't want to be thrown into the same pot as them.
Also, I never felt being in a worse position just because I am not male (if you don't count standing while uriniating). Maybe that's a different thing in other countries, but I always felt equal. So why would I fight to gain something that I already have?
...But I suppose that's a discussion for another thread. I do respect your opinion and your experience, and am glad to hear that you've felt so empowered
I know that there always have been female soldiers but never nearly as many as male soldiers at least not in our current civilization. I am speaking of gender stereotypes here and stereotypes are aaaaaall over the place in videogames.
I would very much endorse gender parity in all respects, but equality doesn't seem to mean what it should.
On-topic: Did that Viconia and Edwina dialogue occur in Vanilla? It's just strange that Overhaul put in dialogue for NPC's that already existed.
Germany has one of the widest gaps in wages between men and women in Europe. But hey, continue to believe "I don't feel personally affected by statistically proven discrimination, so I have decided it doesn't exist".
These studies are never controlled for age, profession and work experience. Once you control for those things, the difference in pay between genders shrinks to 1€ or less.
Women often choose careers that do not earn as much money as male dominated career paths. Women also go on parental break far more frequently than men, which means that they pause their career for a few years and do not earn money.
This is not because of some ill defined sexism in German society, but because of pragmatism. If a woman is more likely to become a teacher in primary school or a nurse, then she is also likely to earn less than her husband, which results in the woman going on parental break once children arive. All this combines to appear like some issue of sexism is at work, while it all comes down to personal choice. If the free choice of a woman on how she wants to earn her money and live her life is discrimination, then feminism did a fine job of twisting words. Equality in front of the law was reached somewhere in the 70s in Germany. Everything else came down to society and the individuals making up the very same. Those intangible aspects have steadily improved. Today it's nothing worth noting to see female doctors, policemen, bankers, car mechanics or plumbers. We Germans even had a female head of government since almost a decade now and female ministers long before that.
It's even come to the point were our political cabaretists make jokes about the qualities of our Bundeskanzlerin, instead of her looks.
I don't know what warlord rules your african hellhole, but here things are great for equality.
First off, what "feminist literature" have you read? I'd love to compare notes.
The problem with your argument - dismissing statistics as inherently flawed and defining social trends/norms as "personal choice" - is that it attempts to discredit opposing arguments before they even appear. Inequality doesn't exist, men and women are just different, er, because they choose to be.
It's really convenient actually. Why are only a small fraction of women CEOs? Because women don't want to be CEOs! You know what women want? Babies! Lots and lots of babies!
...or maybe women trend towards lower-paying careers because even in 2013 research has shown that schoolteachers unconsciously encourage students toward different subjects on the basis of gender. Maybe it's because higher-paying jobs have been virtually inaccessible to women until recently, or because higher-paying workplaces have been structured by and for men (who since childhood are exposed to more hierarchical/competitive power structures than women are). When you're talking about sociology, "personal choice" is almost always far too simple an answer.
If gender inequality is over in your country because you've elected a female Chancellor, then I suppose racism is over in America because we elected a black president. Laws and precedents are great steps forward, but they're not capable of ending systemic inequality on their own.
The new dialogues eer on the side of clichés, but guess what - it's funny! Neera cracked me up several times and I simply love how her character was written. It only gets better once you roll a sex change on the wild surge table. I was flat on my ass laughing and chuckling to myself all the way through the WIld Forest. They've made the dialogues much more perky and I'd love to see more of that.
Might I also point out, that there is no shortage of strong, female protagonists in the game. We are running around in a medieval-fantasy-kinda-environment, so if you've got complaints, then just think of the game as accurately representing a male dominated medieval society.
Well, sorry, those statistics include all men and women of working age and only compare the total income. They're faulty. No other way to say it. If one wants to compare the pay gap between genders, then why not look at specific circumstances where the only remaining factor is gender? Because then it wouldn't be such a headline.
Here's an argument I heard some time ago. If women were truly cheaper to hire by a quarter, how come men are still hired?
My mother gave me literature to read on theories about gender and feminism. She also debated me on some of the works. It's been years, but some of the books were written by Alice Schwarzer, a well known German feminist. Schwarzer is the face of German feminism and totally a crazy. She was a founding member of the 'PorNO' campaign, which had ridiculous goals.
Here's an example I remember vividly. Fetish porn is sexist and degrading to women, because it shows women in a literally subservient role to men, being whipped and degraded. In the same chapter of her own book, Schwarzer also wrote that fetish porn is sexist and degrading to women, because it shows women whipping and degrading men, purely as instruments for male sexual fantasies.
This woman is not some unknown feminist with a tumblr. Schwarzer was for many decades the most public German feminist and chief publisher of the biggest German magazine for feminism, called Emma.
But I'm sure I made her up to argue on the internet. Here's a discussion you might find interesting. I watched it a few years back.
That's all I wanted to say on the matter of feminism. Peace please. Let's talk about innuendos in the dialogue of a videogame.
How about we ask how many people have a claim to land in total? That is, are there only 20% of people who actually own land (a hypothetical figure). Of that 20%, how many of those are female or male, or both? Apply these figures to OUR culture, or more specifically, the developed western world. I think you'd find men and women are on fairly equal footing, especially when applied to younger demographics (the present and future).
But don't let me despute your vague and sensalionalist 'stat' pulled straight from your rear end. Not to mention that there are absolutely NO specific bars on women against land ownership. There are no bars on professions. In fact it is bloody illegal to discrimate based on sex where I come from. Really sick of this baseless feminist crap that isn't applicable in my country.
As for the crap about germany, they're one of the most liberal and forward thinking cultures on the planet. The engineer that manages our department is a 34 year old german! She manages engineers that are senior to her by decades! Our Senior HR manager is a WOMAN. Half my office are female professionals... Even if you 'feel' there are blocks, name the legislation that is preventing them from a professional career based purely on their sex? Name the social institution that can legally bar woman from admittance.
Don't use the well worn army excuse either, since that is a singular life or death profession. Whether you like it or not, there is sexual dimorphism in humans. Men are larger than females, FACT. They are born with more muscle tissue, and the inherently aggressive hormone called testosterone floods their bodies. In a profession based purely on physical power and aggression, it is natural that in SOME of the world's militaries, an emphasis is given on male frontline soldiers.
At any rate, and this is where all this comes undone, equality comes from balance, not from women and men being the exact same. The german woman who manages me could intellectually run circles around me, but the fact that she is 5'8" 45kg and I'm 6'2" 100kg means that I am physcially stronger, FACT. We are not equal because of identical traits, we are identical because our traits balance one another. Our rights in society (OUR society), should and are equal as a result. Stop living 30 years in the past, take off the blinkers and realise that the bars holding you back are a figment of your imagination (or an excuse?)
http://www.dw.de/germany-grapples-with-day-to-day-racism/a-17059246
http://www.dw.de/foreigners-not-welcome-racism-in-germanys-housing-market/a-17223748
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/essay-on-racism-growing-up-turkish-in-germany-a-932154.html
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-327021-discrimination-racism-remain-problems-in-germany.html
http://mkenyaujerumani.de/2013/08/02/a-german-husband-shares-on-how-racism-in-germany-against-his-kenyan-wife-scares-him/
http://www.thelocal.de/20130702/50643
http://news.yahoo.com/neo-nazi-trial-highlights-casual-racism-germany-082717450.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8347040.stm
http://www.worldbulletin.net/?aType=haber&ArticleID=115929
http://blackgirlinberlin.com/it-isnt-just-the-fringe/
Hey, would you like me to post 10 more? How about 100 more? And while those mostly centred on racism, be assured I could find similarly endless amounts on discrimination against women and unequal treatment.
Now, nothing I see convinces me Germany is particularly worse than Europe as a whole on discrimination against women and minorities, but it is certainly not better, and even less so is it free of the problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
But way to ignore everything I said about gender inequality. You quote an anecdotal definition as a snide retort, but give nothing to retort my assertion that it is illegal to sexually descriminate. How about you just go out and buy a house, no one will stop you, especially not the big bad man. Go and study at univerity, no one will stop you, especially not the big bad man. Go and drink at a bar, no one will stop you, especially not the big bad man
Back on topic, I just finished a BG2:EE dialogue with neera not-so-subtly comparing the big O to a wild surge (if you haven't had this dialogue, it still feels completely tasteful). Thanks for not going all Disney on us, devs - the writing has been a blast so far
Edit: Ah, seems moderation has already happened. Nevermind me, then.
Now, would ye like to take a look at me diddies?
Someone didn't understand the startpost, appearently ~
"Through the flower" means that you talk about something but not bluntly. Stupid example: Birds & Bees = Sexual intercourse.
It basically means: You need to be old enough to get the actual meaning.
Another thing is, that before EE, I never played Balur's Gate in english, so I assume that many things where simply lost in translation. Such as Imoen's "trollops and plugtails" line.
@Everyone:
PS: Since the "Politely debate over the roles of women in videogames" turned into "Let's throw random 'facts' about women in society at each other and insult each other", I will ignore that part from now on and concentrate on the starting topic again. To bad, this was such a nice conversation we had.
Maybe Viconia's and Hexxat's dialouges just made me aware of the whole stuff xD (These two, I swear ...)