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What's Good about being Evil?

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  • RazaDelromRazaDelrom Member Posts: 149
    edited November 2013
    There is that, and don't forget looting every corpse, wheter it's twitching or not. And then not even give them a proper burial. I mean, who cares when the good adventurer is littering the whole city which corpses - disease control or respect for the dead was never part of the good adventurer's job descripton. Once again, where is my chance to do more evil then the good adventurer does every single day? :)
    nano
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Yeah, most adventurers are just killers. The difference between evil and good is that evil is honest about it :)
    velehalRazaDelromKidCarnivaljackjack
  • RazaDelromRazaDelrom Member Posts: 149
    edited November 2013

    velehal said:

    You can loot any house, be provoked to any needless fight, steal and kill because you know that it will bring you experience/items. Most of it can be done with good character without any repercussion (lost of reputation), but from roleplaying perspective it makes not much sense.

    Pretty much every adventurer does the break and entering and stealing. If the household complains: Of course this is for the greater good!
    Killing things who have a bigger brain and century more life expirience because it's belongings are so shiney? The temple said so, it's an evil creature if it doesn't want to share. Hm, so if that's the good adventurer, what does the bad one do?
    Um, no they don't. When I play a good aligned party, I Role Play that alignment. I don't cut corners merely because I can and it's a game. For me it is a role play experience and I take that to heart. that is THE fun of the thing.

    I like the RPG part, but honestly it's hard to believe that you would refrain from looting anything, beside from corpses (or do they also count?). I mean, raiding a cemetery, opening coffins, that's also a no-go if I get you right? Or pickpocketing?

    My only LG character got the cloak by not killing and not stealing it - used the good-ol one-two because he was rude. And helping him carry less a burden while he was K.O (not dead, no reputation lost). But you miss quite a lot if you only take what your enemys had in their pockets. And since you wouldn't even loot irenicus and others possesions, hm I really need to pay attention if you can complete the game with that attitude. Very interesting, a new challenge materalizes.

    I have to mention, that I haven't even once had an LG finish the game, If I go holy that would mean cleric, not the other profession. ;)
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018

    velehal said:

    You can loot any house, be provoked to any needless fight, steal and kill because you know that it will bring you experience/items. Most of it can be done with good character without any repercussion (lost of reputation), but from roleplaying perspective it makes not much sense.

    Pretty much every adventurer does the break and entering and stealing. If the household complains: Of course this is for the greater good!
    Killing things who have a bigger brain and century more life expirience because it's belongings are so shiney? The temple said so, it's an evil creature if it doesn't want to share. Hm, so if that's the good adventurer, what does the bad one do?
    Um, no they don't. When I play a good aligned party, I Role Play that alignment. I don't cut corners merely because I can and it's a game. For me it is a role play experience and I take that to heart. that is THE fun of the thing.

    I like the RPG part, but honestly it's hard to believe that you would refrain from looting anything, beside from corpses (or do they also count?). I mean, raiding a cemetery, opening coffins, that's also a no-go if I get you right? Or pickpocketing?

    My only LG character got the cloak by not killing and not stealing it - used the good-ol one-two because he was rude. And helping him carry less a burden while he was K.O (not dead, no reputation lost). But you miss quite a lot if you only take what your enemys had in their pockets. And since you wouldn't even loot irenicus and others possesions, hm I really need to pay attention if you can complete the game with that attitude. Very interesting, a new challenge materalizes.

    I have to mention, that I haven't even once had an LG finish the game, If I go holy that would mean cleric, not the other profession. ;)
    Absolutely, my goodly parties do not steal or pick pocket. We don't loot tombs and we only take stuff off of people who have tried to kill us. My Paladin even donates significant amounts to his church even when our rep is 20. Surprisingly enough, we don't hurt for money or magic items that way.

    Now my Evil parties, the sky is the limit. But that's a whole different game.

    BelgarathMTHbooinyoureyes
  • RazaDelromRazaDelrom Member Posts: 149
    edited November 2013

    velehal said:

    You can loot any house, be provoked to any needless fight, steal and kill because you know that it will bring you experience/items. Most of it can be done with good character without any repercussion (lost of reputation), but from roleplaying perspective it makes not much sense.

    Pretty much every adventurer does the break and entering and stealing. If the household complains: Of course this is for the greater good!
    Killing things who have a bigger brain and century more life expirience because it's belongings are so shiney? The temple said so, it's an evil creature if it doesn't want to share. Hm, so if that's the good adventurer, what does the bad one do?
    Um, no they don't. When I play a good aligned party, I Role Play that alignment. I don't cut corners merely because I can and it's a game. For me it is a role play experience and I take that to heart. that is THE fun of the thing.

    I like the RPG part, but honestly it's hard to believe that you would refrain from looting anything, beside from corpses (or do they also count?). I mean, raiding a cemetery, opening coffins, that's also a no-go if I get you right? Or pickpocketing?

    My only LG character got the cloak by not killing and not stealing it - used the good-ol one-two because he was rude. And helping him carry less a burden while he was K.O (not dead, no reputation lost). But you miss quite a lot if you only take what your enemys had in their pockets. And since you wouldn't even loot irenicus and others possesions, hm I really need to pay attention if you can complete the game with that attitude. Very interesting, a new challenge materalizes.

    I have to mention, that I haven't even once had an LG finish the game, If I go holy that would mean cleric, not the other profession. ;)
    Absolutely, my goodly parties do not steal or pick pocket. We don't loot tombs and we only take stuff off of people who have tried to kill us. My Paladin even donates significant amounts to his church even when our rep is 20. Surprisingly enough, we don't hurt for money or magic items that way.

    Now my Evil parties, the sky is the limit. But that's a whole different game.

    I even tried it, but somehow my Paladin is not able to access the portal (The master of the place did not try to kill me, he captured him for a scientific experiment). Oh well, he has to wait till he can confront the master himself, does anyone have some food and water at hand?

    Granted, my Paladin is not one of the sharpest tools in the shed, INT on 3 for the perfect CHA 18 does leave him a little simpleminded.
    booinyoureyes
  • NaveenNaveen Member Posts: 81
    Quartz said:

    This kinda creeps me out. I'm very much a Neutral Good soul myself, and when I let myself be free and do what I feel like doing in a game, my game behavior tends to be Chaotic Good ... not Evil like a lot of you are saying. O_o;

    I think this must explain why I've never personally been into Grand Theft Auto, despite it being a good game series.

    That's a freedom-based "evil", it's a bit like testing the limits of the game. Like vaporizing children in Fallout 1, it's not mandatory or even necessary (I think they give you a "child killer" perk, though), but you can do it because nothing stops you. Evil, however, can also be "rule-based" and by that I mean that the game implements evil options (extorsion, lies, murder, treason, selling your friends to slavery, etc.) with "real" and relevant in-game consequences (rewards, other endings, etc.). I think Planescape Torment (and the Fallout saga) is much better at this kind of roleplaying evil, but BG has a few interesting evil paths/dialogue trees (from greedy mercenary to psychotic berserker). Of course, being mostly a kill-plunder-sell-rinse&repeat kind of game, machiavellian or long term evil is mostly out of the question. Besides that thing about becoming the new Lord of Murder, of course.




  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    There are a couple of quests that have special 'evil' routes on them, which is nice, but you usually suffer for doing them. Take the Druid Grove. Solving it the good way gets everyone 18000 XP each and 2000 gold, Solving it the evil way gives you 1000 XP each and a +2 small shield (with some nice immunities, admittedly). Solving the main Ust Natha quest the evil way gives everyone 50k less XP than the good route, and you get a largely redundant +4 halberd (since you just picked up a better +4 halberd earlier), though it makes it somewhat easier to get the Silver Dragon blood.

    I still did them all, because why the hell not, but some better rewards especially in Ust Natha would be very appreciated. Why does the demon attack you if you ask for power? Instead, you could get a permanent +1 attribute boost to a stat of your choosing, which would be a much nicer reward.
    QuartzJuliusBorisov
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190



    I even tried it, but somehow my Paladin is not able to access the portal (The master of the place did not try to kill me, he captured him for a scientific experiment). Oh well, he has to wait till he can confront the master himself, does anyone have some food and water at hand?

    Granted, my Paladin is not one of the sharpest tools in the shed, INT on 3 for the perfect CHA 18 does leave him a little simpleminded.

    /facepalm Did you learn nothing from the Lawful Good thread?
    Time4Tiddylaptopman666
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    @Schneidend Please don't start arguments for no reason. I'd hate to have another topic closed because of it :(

    But I really do wish they branched out the evil options more. Most quests force you to be heroic and slay the monsters anyway, though I'd say you can just pretend you're doing it for the monetary reward to advance your goals and nothing more.
    RazaDelrom
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853

    /facepalm Did you learn nothing from the Lawful Good thread?

    /facepalm Did you learn nothing from being "Jailed?"

    There are a couple of quests that have special 'evil' routes on them, which is nice, but you usually suffer for doing them. Take the Druid Grove. Solving it the good way gets everyone 18000 XP each and 2000 gold, Solving it the evil way gives you 1000 XP each and a +2 small shield (with some nice immunities, admittedly). Solving the main Ust Natha quest the evil way gives everyone 50k less XP than the good route, and you get a largely redundant +4 halberd (since you just picked up a better +4 halberd earlier), though it makes it somewhat easier to get the Silver Dragon blood.

    I still did them all, because why the hell not, but some better rewards especially in Ust Natha would be very appreciated. Why does the demon attack you if you ask for power? Instead, you could get a permanent +1 attribute boost to a stat of your choosing, which would be a much nicer reward.

    Yea, evil characters get axed so hard on quests and rewards and such. Ridiculous, especially since you are supposedly going the greedy route.
    RazaDelrom
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @Quartz @GamingFreak

    It's a fair question, and was stated perfectly civilly, albeit with no small amount of frustration. He's saying the same sort of thing he did in the Lawful Good thread, as though it never even happened. He's also strawmanning something fierce.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    edited November 2013



    I even tried it, but somehow my Paladin is not able to access the portal (The master of the place did not try to kill me, he captured him for a scientific experiment). Oh well, he has to wait till he can confront the master himself, does anyone have some food and water at hand?

    Granted, my Paladin is not one of the sharpest tools in the shed, INT on 3 for the perfect CHA 18 does leave him a little simpleminded.

    I didn't get this at first and then I realized that you were intentionally trying to be obtuse, apparently to make a point???

    You not only get captured by The Master, but he tries and succeeds in killing at minimum two of your companions. And then he spends days or more torturing you. I think pretty much anything goes at that stage. Add to the fact that, that quite a few of the masters servants DO try and kill you, presumably on his orders ("Kill any errant slaves in my compound who aren't locked up"). By default, that is an attempt to kill me. Besides, who says you need to 'Steal' the activation key to the portal? Use it and leave it.

    What I was saying was, my 'Good' parties don't break INTO someone's house and rob them while they aren't there. We also don't pick pockets, nor pick fights unless we have no other option. But if someone intentionally wrongs us, they become fair game.

    This.

    Time4Tiddybooinyoureyes
  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 801
    edited November 2013
    @the_spyder @Schneidend @RazaDelrom

    Now, if Lawful Good players actually played lawful good, could you imagine both how many items(and how much cash) that they would miss out on and how many quests?
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @GemHound

    And yet killing scumbags like Firkraag or Maevar provide all the phat loot a disciple of justice could ever want.
    booinyoureyesQuartz
  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 801
    edited November 2013
    @Schneidend
    Then you turn around and find out that Firkraag and Maevar are not anywhere near Candlekeep, and you don't see them till the second one. My comment was more directed towards Baldur's Gate 1, as if you do not break into random houses, you miss almost a quarter of the extra content.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    GemHound said:

    @the_spyder @Schneidend @RazaDelrom

    Now, if Lawful Good players actually played lawful good, could you imagine both how many items(and how much cash) that they would miss out on and how many quests?

    you could always try it and keep track if you really want to know - but I think you are missing a point here - for someone actually playing lawful good (because that's what they want to do) those things or the lack of them are probably not too high on their priority list in the first place -

    it's not like the game can't be played/or finished or can't be fun if you don't have access to every single item, quest or gold coin in the game.

  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 801
    @Wanderon I like playing the full game. I don't care so much about items.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    GemHound said:

    @Wanderon I like playing the full game. I don't care so much about items.

    So play it however you want - but don't assume everyone wants to play that way.

    Frankly I sometimes go out of my way to leave things undone in a run-through - then they are still fresh or new for the next character I decide to take through.

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    GemHound said:

    @Schneidend
    Then you turn around and find out that Firkraag and Maevar are not anywhere near Candlekeep, and you don't see them till the second one. My comment was more directed towards Baldur's Gate 1, as if you do not break into random houses, you miss almost a quarter of the extra content.

    None of the new NPCs require you to break into anybody's house as part of their quests.
  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 801
    edited November 2013
    @Schneidend When did extra=new?
    Here. Go into Baldur's Gate. Do not enter buildings which you have no reason to enter. There. You just missed 1/4 of the extra non-plot essential content.
    Quartz
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    GemHound said:

    @Schneidend When did extra=new?
    Here. Go into Baldur's Gate. Do not enter buildings which you have no reason to enter. There. You just missed 1/4 of the extra non-plot essential content.

    I wouldn't consider something that shipped with the original game to be "extra," so I assumed you meant new. My mistake.

    I've played most of the Baldur's Gate house content. I don't feel like there's much to miss. Kill a couple creepy necromancers, run into some burglars. Meh.
  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 801
    edited November 2013
    @Schneidend Yes, it is all just random minor things, except for a few that seem cool like the random house tucked in behind the Temple of Helm. Killing the Armored dude in there is fun. Also the houses stuffed with horrors, the Balduran quest, A wizard/druid choice that can cause some people to think for a while, the thieves, the mage and his lackeys. An actual quest that ties to Sil and her Sirines, an early introduction to Gorpel Hind's shenanigans... etc.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Talking to other NPCs introduces you to the Thieves' Guild pretty easily. There's also a guy that will chat YOU up, if I recall.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    Quartz said:

    /facepalm Did you learn nothing from the Lawful Good thread?

    /facepalm Did you learn nothing from being "Jailed?"
    Those bars will not hold his wrath! Butts will be liberally trolled in good measure!


    Yet I agree with most of what @Schneidend said here.
    Schneidend
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    I figure if the door is unlocked you can be forgiven for popping in to say hi and ask if they have any quests for you.

    As a good party you could go from house to house knocking on people's doors asking if anyone needs your services. Now in the game knocking on doors unlocks them, but technically you did knock.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,396
    I am pretty certain that breaking in and entering is part of the chaos-law axis, not the good-evil axis.
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