Were major battles made more difficult from the original? How much?
Marmot
Member Posts: 5
I've just finished the game and was curious about this. Compared to when I had first played BG some 15 years ago, I died a lot less and leveled easier because my knowledge of D&D and tactical aptitude is now vastly superior to when I was a kid. For example, using all the proper weapons for each character, kiting enemies like wolves, ogres and bears, learning to instantly pause and jump spellcasting enemies with quick spells/abilities to interrupt them before they get off a horror/mirror image....
... however, on boss battles I died a lot more than I remember from 15 years ago. It was crazy. That guy in Nashkel swarmed me once, ok. But Davaeorn caught me in his instant-lightning-bolt several times, wiping the entire party. He was also surprisingly resilient. The battle atop the Iron Throne was also very difficult, with at least 4 casters throwing save or lose spells at me. The party at the beginning of the Undercity with their crazy mages and archers that shoot bombs - I had to reload at least 10 times, don't remember that from before.
When Sarevok revealed Tazok, Angelo and Semaj (the latter two being full of contigencies and the room's traps being undisarmable), I was like "WTF". The amount of spells that rains on you the very second the battle begins is insane. Sarevok also seems to attack faster and deal a lot more damage (which is way more dangerous than high magic resistance he had before). I probably had to reload the final battle 20 times. And that was after stuffing each character with every kind of potion and scroll known to man! I feel happy but a bit sadomasochistic after that battle. Were they really made that more difficult or I just have a rosy memory of the past?
Anyways, is there an official list of changes in comparison to the original game somewhere, like a BG to BG:EE complete patch log?
... however, on boss battles I died a lot more than I remember from 15 years ago. It was crazy. That guy in Nashkel swarmed me once, ok. But Davaeorn caught me in his instant-lightning-bolt several times, wiping the entire party. He was also surprisingly resilient. The battle atop the Iron Throne was also very difficult, with at least 4 casters throwing save or lose spells at me. The party at the beginning of the Undercity with their crazy mages and archers that shoot bombs - I had to reload at least 10 times, don't remember that from before.
When Sarevok revealed Tazok, Angelo and Semaj (the latter two being full of contigencies and the room's traps being undisarmable), I was like "WTF". The amount of spells that rains on you the very second the battle begins is insane. Sarevok also seems to attack faster and deal a lot more damage (which is way more dangerous than high magic resistance he had before). I probably had to reload the final battle 20 times. And that was after stuffing each character with every kind of potion and scroll known to man! I feel happy but a bit sadomasochistic after that battle. Were they really made that more difficult or I just have a rosy memory of the past?
Anyways, is there an official list of changes in comparison to the original game somewhere, like a BG to BG:EE complete patch log?
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To answer your main question more directly though, afaik there hasn't been any particular specific changes to make boss type encounters more difficult.
Here he lies helplessly because of my spell and we beat his face easily :
and Semaj getting a sequencer most notably (or is it with SCS only ?).
For example, the final fight and the one before it would be a joke if your CHarname was an Archer and you bought 20-50 Arrows of Detonation for the fight.
It just depends on each unique playthrough, which is what makes it so great imho.
My first playthrough was with a Kensage for BG (just Kensai for BG) and it was moderately difficult, i also didn't use ANY potions, and had a four man squad...In retrospect, i don't even remember how i did it, but i know i kind of cheesed Semaj with traps.
My second one, with an archer, was a breeze, with a 6 man party.
Third, Archer Solo (i like the class), was very easy as well
fourth, Full party with charname cleric, extremely difficult, i drank 5000 potions and it was still extremely difficult even with a plethora of NPC classes.
All of this though (other than the traps for semaj) is assuming you are approaching the fight in a non-cheesy way. Baldur's Gate is just a very difficult game in general, only through experience and metagame knowledge (and sometimes luck) does it ever become "easy" and when it does, you install SCS and such. Although i think BG2 is much more difficult.
That being said, it is usually a difficult fight (especially if you're playing SCS and have to defeat his friends first). I think it's always been difficult- BG1, BgTutu, BGEE. Those undisarmable traps seem to get me every other time.
After playing through BGEE I was suprised that I literally beat him down within a couple of rounds, using a f/m/c, kagain and dorn buffed to the extreme. He went down before the casters basically had a chance to do anything. I was so underwhelmed I reloaded and tried attack his cronies first. The end result was still the same, Sarevok copped a beatdown. So I don't know if it was different, more than likely I just know how to buff my characters better now
Is it possible some of these fights got harder due to these changes? Maybe. It's hard to say for sure given the variability of the game system. One time I fought the demon knight and he managed to perfectly dispel charname, stun him, and chop him to bits. One reload later, my whole group butchers him in like 2 rounds flat. That's just how some games go.
- tosc makes it easier (like tob does it for soa) by raising the cap and adding items (like free ring of free action from the start of the game which synergize more than nicely with the already OP web)
- dual wielding is too strong (also true in soa) and did not exist in vanilla bg1.
- some kits are completely unbalanced for bg1. For example :
- berserker rage beats all the spellcasters of the game (since they just cast save or else spells)
- poison weapon (assassin, blackguard) beats everything in the game
- extended spell selection also makes things easier especially if i remember correctly, there was no stoneskin or MMM in vanilla bg1. Both spells are too strong by bg standards (almost no dispell magic, not enough stoneskin bypassing damage)
As for boss fights, the top of the iron throne fight was already challenging (impossible?) if you faced it head on without proper preparation.
Sarevok without his magic resistance is weak, falling very easily to spells like magic missile (a sorc has 12 magic missiles + potentially 2 more from a sequencer : that's 190 unavoidable damage for sarevok ...)
Finally the things that makes it easier is the age of the game and internet. Nowdays, everybody knows the best tactis to deal with any situation : what are the best spells, the best buffs, how some abilities can change the game. (i discovered the awesomeness of poison weapon very recently)
I deliberately didn't look at any of the message boards on my first play through of EE because I wanted to experience it raw so to speak. Did it with a F/C male dwarf. Tons of fun.
Sarevok loosing MR is disappointing as that made him a darn hard fight in the original.
That sounds more than a little bit disappointing.
The game is wwwaaaayyyyy easier.
Sorcer, Mage, Cleric many new Spells (Stone Skin ? Start with Find Familiar ?? Minor Sequencer ???)
+Scrolls -> why is there a 20 Stack from Otiluke's Resilient Sphere to buy ? (and other Spells)
Kits with strong Bonis.
New Weapons
More Ammunition (Explosiv Arrows are not so rare any more,.. )
Bags are importent 2 -> more place is more Combat Items with you.
Ankegh Armor + ( +1/+2 RK/Save Item )
It's just like Final Fantasy, the only times you'd want to cast a debuff is on the things that are totally immune to it.
But it can make the final fight anticlimatic : like Mozco said, sometimes you just land a hold person and the fight is over. Or he get stuck in one of the webs traps, or he dies in Semaj cloudkill,...
Or you just kill him with magic missile : 1 mage with the ring of wizardry can cast 12 of them (14 with minor sequencer) : that's 60d4+60 against which he cannot defend...
What is funny is that the first time i did BGEE with my solo sorc, i was assuming he was magic resistant. So i relied on MMM and summoning wand to kill him which was painfully slow. Only later did i discovered that he add no MR anymore...
C:CreateCreature("Sarevo2")
Its got 999 health, -20 AC, 100% magic resistance, 100% fire resistance, 100% cold resistance, 50% resistance against physical attacks,
He has the same dialog as the Koveras but its technically a different creature file (more health and less physical resistances).
Ohh and he gets an auto-kill ability. Just to make things more interesting
Edit: Note this is BG EE 1.3 for me
I suspected it had something to do with me spawning him in Candlekeep, like the script recognizes when you're spawning him and makes him instant kill you randomly, but I really have no idea.
Edit: I looked up Deathbringer assault and I see now.. that's pretty much an instant kill spell for anyone in BG EE who's not mega cheating..
I've also went at him solo with a bard, which should have been easy, except he somehow couldn't be stunned with the Wand of Paralysis/Wand of Stinky Cheese. Since I was counting on stunning him, that made for a very unpleasant arrow-plinking spree for my Bard.
Does Sarevok actully have his Deathbringer thingey in EE? Good to know, I avoid meleeing him without party, but that gives me a very good reason to do so!
If your character was unarmed that is another +4 per hit. Bringing it up to 25. 25x3 is 75.
So even if your character was unarmed and had no helmet (which means double damage on criticals) the most he could do in a round is 150. But even that is under pretty extreme circumstances.
Deathbringer Assault is not a good mechanic to pit the player against because there wouldn't be way to play around it other than to simply not let Sarevok near you. Which would basically give the player even more of an incentive to kite him to death.