If you've played before, how do you NOT metagame? (spoilers)
BGLover1981
Member Posts: 13
Maybe I just misunderstand the term. But typically, at the very least you're preparing your character in terms of weapon proficiencies and spells based on what you know you'll "discover" later on. How do you roleplay "accidentally" stumbling upon Belm or Celestial Fury early on (or do you purposely avoid them, which displays equal foreknowledge)? Would you spend some extra time in an area just casually moving the mouse around until you happened to highlight that hidden stash that you didn't "know" was there?
It just seems to me that it would be impossible not to metagame unless you've never played before and have looked up nothing about the game in advance. Maybe a close second would be coming back to the game after a very long time.
It just seems to me that it would be impossible not to metagame unless you've never played before and have looked up nothing about the game in advance. Maybe a close second would be coming back to the game after a very long time.
Post edited by Lemernis on
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On the other hand, I do, by natural recourse, explore every single board to the fullest. In that, I use the TAB function as a form of "Searching". So as for example, when going to the Friendly Arm Inn for the first time, I don't look for or avoid looking for the ring outside. However, once I have settled in and met up with Jaheira and Khalid, I do search the grounds if for no other reason than to find joli's ring. I even 'Role play' it that it might indeed be her ring that I find under the tree. When she "Says" it isn't (in my mind), i take it to the temple to be identified.
Maybe in this it is to my benefit that I am not that great a player, because all of the strategies and such don't clutter up my mind such that they impact my Meta-gaming.
As for the Mind flayer suggestion, that's easy. Having been made aware of the uses of Chaotic Commands probably came with some 'Example' uses such as Mind Flayers. It isn't like they are totally unheard of as a species after all. And when you go into the underdark, they are one of the races most likely to be encountered, so prepare. Simple as that.
http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=25430
I think using the tab key is fine - I always have at least a half elf if not a full elf, and they are supposed to be very good at spotting things.
I assume that the party has a reasonable amount of knowledge about various creatures, and that their knowledge increases. After all they don't spend all their resting time asleep - they chat to other people in the inn, they read a little, they share specialized knowledge with each other etc So yes, they do know what to watch out for when facing a mind-flayer, and they would watch out for Sirenes on deserted and wild coastlines.
The cleric can just...detect magical auras.
Your ranger found Mind Flayer tracks.
The wizard is super smart and just knows this stuff.
The rogue scouted ahead.
The elf could smell the dragon.
The gnome is paranoid and always buffs at random.
The halfling is lucky and just had a "feeling" he should check for traps.
The dwarf had a "moment of clarity"
Doesn't matter what excuse you use, you're still gonna loot those hidden items
(Long time Elf.)
A nature type (Druid/Ranger) can Track enemies. "These are wyvern footprints, they must be close."
A Bard or someone with Lore heard of this place. "I heard of this dungeon, supposedly is filled with undead and I think a Lich rests here."
Scouting with someone invisible or hidden. Or the one with high Charisma asks questions about the area or rumors or important places. Maybe he bribes them or intimidates them.
The simplest way is just say "divination magic" and be done with it. Scrying can work wonders in PnP.
Everything else has its flaws but this playthough is simply ideal.
For me having a back story for my character is rather important, if I don't know a bit about him or her it's very difficult to determine how he or she would react in a given situation.
Never the less, that style isn't for everyone.
For example, a d4 for directions and red suit cards for yes, black suit cards for no. Nice and easy and totally random
I'm not really a power gamer anyway, I use the weapons I like; long sword, flail, mace, halberd, long and short bow. I don't need no stinken' curvy swords...
I like a variety of character classes, I build them intelligently and by my own preferences, but I don't sweat what is "best" for beating the game. I can win with a jester, so I'm not worried about the power issues.
As far as pre-buffing, in most cases I'm willing to assume my character knows his business as well as I do. If I see a bunch of life like statues, I get the gaze reflection up. I usually have at least one tank protected by chaotic commands anyway. And for the big fights, well I figure a party of warriors, or demons, or trolls, makes enough noise to be noticed prior to the "fog of war" element allows for anyway.
I don't memorize enemies enough to remember where they're going to be standing or what spells they'll be casting or anything anyway. I just practice sound tactics to neutralize spell casters and eliminate foes as quickly as possible. As US Grant said; " I don't worry about what the other guy will be doing, I just worry about what I'm doing."
Even with the "Fates" approach a slight bit of metagaming is still unavoidable. For example, each chapter has a quest, or a big fight, or something, that has to be completed in order for the game to advance. But otherwise if you really make a good faith effort to put yourself in the shoes of each party member and imagine what they would (or could) know of that world, a major shift takes place in the relationship to the story. For me it has become a bit exciting that I often don't know what the characters are going to do next. They start writing themselves, is how it feels.
That said, here's a pretty good example in my game of how metagaming can creep in even when making every effort to avoid it: I now have Yeslick and Rasaad in the party in chapter 5 and Rassad hasn't been to Baldur's Gate yet. When the party returns to the city (and they're about to), I know as a player that will initiate Rasaad's quest. And as a player I want Yeslick to have the Strength belt.
However, I also happen to think that from a roleplaying perspective it will actually make the most sense to the party as well, as I'm imagining (roleplaying) each party member's reactions to things. Yeslick's is clearly the least bright among the party. He's not going to experience that much of a change to who he fundamentally is by wearing the thing. Whereas I don't see anyone else in the party as willing to put it on. (The PC is a Diviner, so they'll know that it is cursed and makes the wearer as simpleminded as a small child.) There's no one in the party that I see as willing to compromise their wits in order to have super strength. Not even Yeslick! But if Yeslick puts it on and finds that he doesn't really feel noticeably different (or just everso faintly), he may be alright with it--in order to get such an awesome boost to his Strength.
Anyway: so is this metagaming? It comes dangerously close, because what I wish to happen could easily influence what I'm roleplaying the characters would do independently in their own right.
This one will be fun to see how it plays out in imagination, as I try to imagine what the input of all the various party members is, and then finally what Yeslick is willing to do. I think Yeslick trying out the belt will be suggested to him, but exactly how it is done could definitely impact the outcome.
On the other hand, although I don't suspect that your Cleric's actual Deity pays much mind to a 7th level Cleric, who is to say that whatever lesser Demi-God who does look after the day-to-day stuff for your Deity isn't 'Helping' out a bit and suggesting (in the Cleric's sleep or prayers) that X-spell might be useful, or that you should prepare for Y contingency. Just saying.
Also, remember that you are a Bhaalspawn who is already having prophetic dreams. who is to say that doesn't include some foreshadowing for your present predicament. After all, considering that you have it in you to go the distance, nothing says you weren't 'Someone's favorite all along. Just sayin.
I forget.
Too many blows to the head do that to you.
However, metagaming does have its appeals for RPing too. My current character is a descendant of Balduran looking to reacquire all of his families lost artifacts. He has studied them, read up on them in Candlekeep, dreamed of wielding the sword of Balduran and practiced with Hull to become proficient in long swords. Is it metagaming that I know they exist? Or is it just crafty roleplaying because if I was playing the game for the first time, I wouldn't have been able to enjoy this character.
IMO having an inkling what's ahead helps the game. It's so huge! First time I played, it took like three days to get through Irenicus' dungeon. Then we were dumped into the promenade (where are we??). It was epic and sweeping, certainly, but also a tad overwhelming.
With a bit of foreknowledge in hand, one is free to roleplay all the classes & alignments. Good grief, I think it takes at least a couple runs just to understand the spell system.
As for being totally surprised, well.. that's what new games (and new content to old games) are for