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Minsc, before his head injury.

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Comments

  • Montresor_SPMontresor_SP Member Posts: 2,160
    edited July 2014

    nosecret said:

    Is it ironic to anyone else that a character with such personal magnetism and one of the highest personality-filled characters was given a 9 Charisma?

    I dunno, charisma is more than just appearance or personal magnetism, people's confidence in you also factors in. So Minsc could indeed have that personality and amazing physique but would you follow him as a leader? lol, no
    Surely I would follow him ... at a safe distance! Say a kilometer or two. ;-)

    jackjack
  • CzarnyCzarny Member Posts: 42
    I prefer to think he was born this way. Dynaheir could simply guess when she said that he behaves the way he does because he got whacked too many times, or she lied, afraid that if she said the true reason for his boisterous simplicity - a sort of mental disability, or affliction of the senses - would embarass him, make Charname too cautious about putting him in the group, or expose him to teasing (as much as you can tease an 18 feet tall killing machine brimming with righteous wrath). I personally feel that handwaving his character as a result of a war wound trivialises it, and poses some interesting question regarding the commonplace practice of magical healing - in the Forgotten Realms, you can fix just about anything, especially with Charname's resources. Wouldn't that be an interesting quest? Finding a cure for Minsc, bringing him back to his days before the 'head wound', and finding out he wasn't what he initially seemed to be... and then quickly having to readminister the head wound, before he drowns Faerun in blood of the innocent, in a 180 degree alignment and intelligence flip!

    Usually, when gods give someone a great boon, in this case size and strength, they take something away, in this case mental stability. If they don't, you get Sarevok ;p

    NokkenbuerDreadKhanjackjack
  • NokkenbuerNokkenbuer Member Posts: 146
    I didn't really think of it that way before, @Czarny, though I was always suspicious as to why no cleric was able to cure him of his purported brain damage. I know I've casted Heal on him in BGII more than enough times to make him healthy as an ox, sometimes only to see if it'd heal his head injury. This reason and this alone lends credence to the idea that perhaps Minsc was mentally handicapped (and slightly loony) from the beginning. I'm curious to see if any of the developers or authors of the canon ever explained why Minsc's head injury is apparently 100% magic resistant.

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    I dont know much about the work of gods, but the 'archetype' of the dumb brute isnt really that common. Most people blessed with good health/fitness arent dumber than average. The trope comes from the fact that scrawny, weak people used to have less options, ie they arent athletic and thus tend to favour hobbies of a mental persuasion, while very physically gifted people have the option of pursuing sports/physical pursuits. Its important to remember the best things for your body are also very good for your brain... especially cardio type activity. When you get down to it, most dumb athletes are pretty ineffective, regardless of their strength... for example, offensive linemen tend to be enourmous men (300lbs is normal, and other than centers they are usually tall), but they cant play position half decently unless they can memorize a pretty massive playbook. Defense players require decent intelligence as they have to be very mentally flexible and quick thinking. You cant do anything but nose tackle if your not bright. Note, their is the opportunity cost to spending all your energy on sports, ie you arent likely to be as well read or cultured, but you'll not find very many dumb NFL players. Immature perhaps, but this is due to extra tolerance usually.

    Similarly, you cant excel at martial arts if you are dumb... though repeated brain injuries will usually leave professional boxers and 'entertainment' wrestlers less intelligent than they started, but even a famed 'brute' like George Foreman has proved to be an impressively competent businessman... pretty good for a guy assumed to be downright dumb.

    Heck, doesnt Klitschko have a phd? Valuev studies Russian lit, etc.

    Besides, Minsc is a ranger... he had to have better wisdom before. As for his charisma, he probably is quite unnerving to people... how comfortable would you be around a manmountain that not only talks to a hammster, but actually thinks it gives him advice. :s Oh yeah, he has a very big sword too.

    NokkenbuerBlackraven
  • NokkenbuerNokkenbuer Member Posts: 146
    And Arian Foster of the Houston Texans has a degree in Philosophy, @DreadKhan‌.

  • CzarnyCzarny Member Posts: 42
    @DradKhan I think you took it too literally, or perhaps I didn't explain. I spoke firmly in game terms, where game mechanics limit you from having 18s in all attributes, although the RNG can sometimes provide for some crazy rolls. The dumb brute or the scrawny wizard trope is simply a by product of the attribute system, because you get a limited amount of resources to work with. That's why such characters are the stereotypical bread and butter in fantasy.

    And by the way, I can think of more than a few examples of simplistic muscleheads and puny scientists from my real life experience, although I must say the latter is a lot more prelevant(perhaps it's just my crowd of people? ;) ). You mentioned a very specific example of professional NFL athletes, which doesn't really apply here, does it? These are the Sarevoks. The exception, not the rule. Then again, I was not speaking of real life, hence why I mentioned "the gods" and Sarevok ;)

    Nokkenbuer
  • nosecretnosecret Member Posts: 92
    CaloNord said:

    @Anduin‌ managed to make me feel really bad for Minsc for a while there! :D
    Why is he not in an asylum? Tiax was raving on a road side and got thrown in there, Minsc talks to his hamster all the time, quite loudly, and no one bats an eyelid. . .

    That's easy - Tiax was out planning world domination while Minsc was busy (hiding his hamster) in a dungeon at the time :D

  • NokkenbuerNokkenbuer Member Posts: 146
    nosecret said:

    CaloNord said:

    @Anduin‌ managed to make me feel really bad for Minsc for a while there! :D
    Why is he not in an asylum? Tiax was raving on a road side and got thrown in there, Minsc talks to his hamster all the time, quite loudly, and no one bats an eyelid. . .

    That's easy - Tiax was out planning world domination while Minsc was busy (hiding his hamster) in a dungeon at the time :D
    That and also Tiax is evil-aligned, whereas Minsc seeks to eradicate evil. Although Minsc is unstable, I suspect people would overlook that since he's doing a pretty fine job stomping out evil and villainy in the land. Meanwhile, Tiax is a raving maniac hellbent on delusions of global domination. Factoring in the intimidating presence of Minsc as compared to Tiax's diminutive stature... If I were to choose between Tiax and Minsc on who to lock up, I'd choose Tiax most any day.

  • RazorRazor Member Posts: 435
    Head injury, what are you talking about? He's the sanest of us all.

    jackjack
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    Heh, yes, I admit gaming encourages min-maxing, but most of us RP types are bothered by min-maxing. I stand by my point though... anything good for physical health is good for mental health. While the brain functions better if you use it, its known that more physically active people have healthier brains, injuries aside.

    Ignoring exceptional athletes, even highschool level atheletes tend to do better... including countries other than the USA. When I played football, we didnt really have dumb players. There were definately a few that didnt apply themselves, but nobody was dumb. We were a pretty awful team though... :p The DnD group was mostly football players too actually.

    Tiax imho is much more openly dangerous in his delusions vs Minsc, and Tiax worships Cyric, very openly. He is probably as obviously a danger as Xzar, the other big standout... which brings me to the REAL question: why isnt Xzar in Spellhold?!

    Nokkenbuer
  • NokkenbuerNokkenbuer Member Posts: 146
    I would assume it's because Xzar has connections with the Zhentarim, which itself is a very powerful organization. I'm not sure if Xzar is a high-leveled member, but whatever the case I wonder if the Cowled Wizards would intentionally cross a formidable evil-aligned corrupt organization of criminals, villains, and madmen, @DreadKhan‌.

  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    The head injury could have resulted from the crash landing of the Halrua skyship.

    Dynhier and Minsc may have been travelling on one to cover the vast distance from Rasheman... Minsc was a quite ranger at one with the forest. A perfect guard for his witch.

    But it went wrong. It was destroyed. In the aftermath Dynhier, out of spells fighting the mysterious force that attacked the ship, was captured by Gnolls and Minsc was left for dead, with a huge dent to the head. A dent that would have dire consequences to his character.

    He awoke to tiny, whiskery licks to the face. Boo!

    The rest is now history...

    CaloNordMontresor_SPJuliusBorisovjackjack
  • CaloNordCaloNord Member Posts: 1,807
    @Anduin‌, off to work for Beamdog! ;)
    I would kill to see a character written by Anduin. :D

    Montresor_SPjackjack
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    edited July 2014
    @CaloNord‌ I wrote an epic space opera once of a man transported to the far, far, far future to find differingly evolved humans warring against each other.

    Weapons were pretty simplistic as nothing could beat a projectile travelling near the speed of light hitting you. Think mass + speed = destruction. I thought it was pretty good stuff.

    I didn't even get to see a higher up literary agent at Greene & Heaton. The lady I saw said something like this...

    "You have written a sci-fi novella, with no aliens, no lasers, and basically faster than light meteorites that could destroy a planet. And yet, at the same time, you have plagerised Buck Rogers. I'm astounded. This book could completely destroy the genre."

    "Uh... Really?"

    "No. Come back when you can write with a little more depth, ."

    I probably only sat down in that office for 5 minutes and got the cold shoulder after months of writing scraps after work.

    Although, I understood what she meant.

    Which made it worse.

    Perhaps I should have pursued it more... life got in the way. And it wasn't fun anymore.

    I now teach kids to write, and I'm happy.

    But still...

    I now rewrite BGnext plots over and over and over each time someone asks about some news on BG3 which makes me giggle.
    ...

    Maybe if @Jalily‌ could reopen the idea of a writing comp. I could show my skills. :)

    CaloNordMontresor_SPJuliusBorisovjackjack
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,950
    edited July 2014
    In the game Universe it would be easy to know if Minsc is just delusional or if Boo is actually an intelligent planar creature...

    A simple way would be casting "Speak with animals" and just asking Boo...

    jackjack
  • Montresor_SPMontresor_SP Member Posts: 2,160
    There is one situation in ToB, when you return to Nyalee with Yaga-Shura's heart and her own. When Nyalee gets her heart back, she makes Yaga-Shura vulnerable - but then rediscovers her feelings for him and tries to attack the party. Minsc doesn't understand why she suddenly turns on you, until Boo explains it to him - indicating that Boo is indeed somewhat smarter than Minsc!

    (Of course it could also be Minsc's own brain kicking in and explaining things to him under the guise of "Boo"...:-)

    NokkenbuerHaikomenBladeMasterJuliusBorisov
  • NybCRNybCR Member Posts: 27
    mlnevese said:

    In the game Universe it would be easy to know if Minsc is just delusional or if Boo is actually an intelligent planar creature...

    A simple way would be casting "Speak with animals" and just asking Boo...

    Aye, but there's the rub, sir - Minsc won't let you! He's very protective of Boo, you know...
    DreadKhan said:

    Tiax imho is much more openly dangerous in his delusions vs Minsc, and Tiax worships Cyric, very openly. He is probably as obviously a danger as Xzar, the other big standout... which brings me to the REAL question: why isnt Xzar in Spellhold?!

    I would assume it's because Xzar has connections with the Zhentarim, which itself is a very powerful organization. I'm not sure if Xzar is a high-leveled member, but whatever the case I wonder if the Cowled Wizards would intentionally cross a formidable evil-aligned corrupt organization of criminals, villains, and madmen, @DreadKhan‌.

    That's a good point, @Nokkenbuer‌. I think another thing to keep in mind is that most everyone in Spellhold was too mentally unstable to buy a magic license from the Cowled Wizards (or, in the case of the little girl, too young), and I've a feeling the Cowled Wizards would be willing to overlook a lot as long as you can fork over the dough... and also as long as you don't cause too public a disturbance, as Irenicus did. So, it's also possible that either Xzar (or his partner Montaron) had enough presence of mind to buy the license, or the Zhentarim arranged it for them.

    Blackraven
  • HaikomenBladeMasterHaikomenBladeMaster Member Posts: 16
    edited July 2014
    What if Minsc was a very grumpy guy with a pretty bad attitude (that can explain his berserk rage even tho he is a ranger) Being a ranger does not mean that you can't hate certain animals, what if Minsc while on his way to Nashkel to investigate, he decided to rest under a tree and eat a snack but before that he put his bag or satchel down and went to pee, when he came back, Boo was inside munching his food, and like in a Tom and Jerry cartoon, Minsc pulled out his sword and chased after the rodent (a huge guy with a huge sword up in the air chasing a rodent only in Baldur's Gate) he tripped over a rock, and hit his head on a another rock, when he woke up, he had Boo sitting there with a victory pose as in *I defeat the big guy har har squeak* that's when the new minsc saw boo as a special rodent.

    Montresor_SP
  • HaikomenBladeMasterHaikomenBladeMaster Member Posts: 16
    @nokkenbuer Well It is always good to know how he got Boo. Though It would have been better with more slapstick and maybe a couple of TNTs disguised as cigars.

    NokkenbuerCaloNord
  • FireExitFireExit Member Posts: 1
    If I recall correctly, Minsc was a PnP character played by one of the original BG developers. Before his "accident", he used to use hamsters like Boo as a trap detection method... After his "accident", well.... He and Boo are inseparable....

    NokkenbuerBlackraven
  • nosecretnosecret Member Posts: 92

    Seeing how both @Alduin‌ and @HaikomenBladeMaster‌ have given varying tales of Minsc's first encounter with Boo, let me provide the "canon" (or closest to canon) story:

    ——————————
    GameSpy: OK, I want the real scoop: How did you find Boo? What sort of counsel does he provide when he "speaks" to you?

    Minsc: You ask how he speaks with your tongue in your cheek, but I say to you that he talks like the best of any of us, with words that ring true for those that wish to hear, and far clearer too, for the only thing in his cheek is the occasional nut. His counsel is my focus when I find it... difficult... to think clearly, either from the guile of villainy or some long persisting headache. Certainly there are rangers that prefer the company of perhaps a giant bear or some great cat or another, but I am large enough on my own and need not compensate.

    As for how Boo and I met, I owe that to a nameless traveling merchant. Dynaheir and I had been drawn to rout a nest of villainy while traveling through Sembia, and though we were victorious, I suffered what I agreed was "an astounding blow to the head." For weeks I was a shadow of my former self. A large shadow perhaps, but still not nearly as effective. When we met the merchant he directed my stumbling gaze to a small cage, and explained the special nature of what was inside. It would be grand to say that Boo came to me from his home amongst the stars, but, in truth, I purchased him for a goodly sum and we have been together since.


    GameSpy: What makes you think he is a miniature giant space hamster? Does he have any special abilities associated with his extraterrestrial nature?

    Minsc: What makes you think he is NOT a Miniature Giant Space Hamster? Who would have more insight into the attributes of my animal companion than I, Minsc! Besides, the merchant had an honest face. He was very insistent too, waving his pipe as he named the stars that Boo might have seen. There were many more words amidst his "thee"s and "thou"s that I did not even recognize, but everything became clear to me as he spelled it out. His price seemed more reasonable as well, even as he raised it once or twice. But enough about Boo, he is blushing because of the attention. He is pink under his fur regardless, but I can tell when he is nervous.
    ——————————

    [Source]

    For those of you interested, here is the full archived GameSpy interview with Minsc (and Boo).

    Sorry if I burst any bubbles. Just trying to help out. As for how he received his head injury, the story is vague but apparently it happened in Sembia while protecting Dynaheir. It was received either by a falling boulder or, more likely, a battle with enemies as he tried to protect his witch. It's believed to have been caused by blunt-force trauma, though possibly of strong magical (or genetic) origin, since no priest or cleric can heal him of it.



    Wait, are they trying to imply Elminster conned Minsc into buying that hamster or the merchant was impersonating Elminster? If the former, I am so not feeling guilty about pickpocketing that old fart every chance I get.

    Blackravenjackjack
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,950
    If Elminster actually sold the hamster then you may be sure it IS a real miniature giant space hamster...

    nosecretBlackravenJuliusBorisovjackjack
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,603
    Head injury? I thought it was because his family kept breeding within the family.

    jackjack
  • nosecretnosecret Member Posts: 92

    Head injury? I thought it was because his family kept breeding within the family.

    Why is "The Circle of Life" now looping in my head?

    jackjack
  • CaloNordCaloNord Member Posts: 1,807
    nosecret said:


    Why is "The Circle of Life" now looping in my head?

    HAHAHA! Oh my lord.

    jackjack
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