EE/SCS/no-reload challenges #1: What is a solid way to not die to a Beholder?
Ygramul
Member Posts: 1,059
With the current BG2EE build and current SCS, how can I reliably NOT be killed while attacking beholders and elder orbs?
- assume no Shield of Cheese [I mod it out]
- assume full party [pick any NPCs] - bonus points to do it wihout a Berserker
- if helpful, assume mage variant PC [Sorcerer, F/M etc.]
- assume that you start in sight of the Beholder (i.e. no sending summons without risk)
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[Note: I heard that Spell Shield used to protect against Beholder antimagic rays? Is that true? How about Spell Immunity: Abjuration? How about potions to lower saves? But what about an elder ord casting Imprisonment (and without a Rage available)? etc. etc.]
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Proceed.
- assume no Shield of Cheese [I mod it out]
- assume full party [pick any NPCs] - bonus points to do it wihout a Berserker
- if helpful, assume mage variant PC [Sorcerer, F/M etc.]
- assume that you start in sight of the Beholder (i.e. no sending summons without risk)
--
[Note: I heard that Spell Shield used to protect against Beholder antimagic rays? Is that true? How about Spell Immunity: Abjuration? How about potions to lower saves? But what about an elder ord casting Imprisonment (and without a Rage available)? etc. etc.]
--
Proceed.
Post edited by Ygramul on
2
Comments
Alternately, Mislead cheese will defeat even Elder Orbs when backed up with Spell Immunity: Divination.
SCS shapeshifting also gives Cernd Greater Werewolf Tokens at level 13, 750,000 XP. Any Druid can use them. Dual-wield them, and you'll have 80% MR. That's enough to let you survive Beholders.
I second @semiticgod's advice to go for fast kills, using various party members and if possible summons at the same time (but keep Charname away from the frontline). If you want to a character to tank Beholders then @Abi_Dalzim's tips are very useful. Make sure you have low saves (well in the negatives) in order to withstand the magic that causes status effects, as well as protections that minimize damaging magics (cause wounds, lightning etc).
Also the Cause Serious Wounds ray... does it count as magic damage? If so, what about Protection from Magical Energy?
But how do you deal with Beholder rays dispelling your protections?
(Hence my first question about Spell shield: since beholders cast basically every round, if it is dispelled after the first round, what do you do?)
I'm not sure if Polymorphing into a Mustard Jelly will work - I tried Shapechange into an Iron Golem once, because I figured 100% magic resistance would make me untouchable AND I could hit back, but that failed miserably for some reason.
1st Ed. Beholders were pretty strong, but IIRC not nearly as brutal as the more powerful versions in even standard SoAEE. I really need to get my 1st Ed. books out of storage so I can refresh my memory on some of this stuff.
SCS Beholders can remove spell protections with every ray. Spell protections simply will not last long against a Beholder. Neither will any buffs, considering anti-magic Rays. Your only remaining options for survival are saving throws or magic resistance.
If a 40% MR item is too much, even with only one copy, we'd also rule out Carsomyr, Purifier, and Monks. Or, if the problem is that the tokens aren't vanilla, we wouldn't be playing SCS in the first place, which is the same source of the tokens.
beholders in the stock game force cast on party members in range. so either wizard eye or farsight and monster summoning 1 will take down beholders with no risk. beholders will only autoattack with fists. so i believe that they can't actually kill summons - they will simply fall unconscious. -no- party members are to be visible to the beholder at any point - only summons. so if the beholder location is known, simply sending summons will be enough, without farsight or wizard eye.
the more spells, obviously, the better. a simulacrum - which is not a party member, can easily take on 10..20 beholders at a time. if the simulacrum casts its own wizard eye, entire areas can be cleared quickly. the beholder will fist attack with terrible thaco. the number of beholders that can be killed is limited to simulacrum duration. my game doesn't render more than 10..15 at a time but theoretically, hundreds if not thousands could theoretically be taken down, given enough simulacrum duration. i believe a helmet can cast this spell for a warrior.
this method is 100%. it's only a matter of time before a failed save ends the no reload.
Borrowing a shapeshifter's paw on the other hand...
@subtledoctor: It's not necessarily an infinite use of the Shapeshifter ability. When I played Cernd and used the tokens, he cast his buffs, equipped the token, and stayed in werewolf form all day. This is exactly what he could have done in vanilla. The tokens are just more user friendly.
Cernd has the same MR whether you use vanilla or SCS shapeshifting. I can understand how it's cheesy to dual-wield them or have another character use them. But is it cheesy for Cernd to equip the token ONCE and get the exact same resistances he does in the vanilla game?
Once I got some Beholders to attack a simulacrum with their melee attack; no rays at all. But my clone had the Shield of Balduran, and SCS AI knows enough not to keep firing Rays at such a character.
(Assuming that the Beholder can remove only one Spell Shield per round. Also, probbaly won't work for more than one Beholder...)
@subtledoctor : I agree with SCS occasionally overdoing in making enemies too challenging.
Still, its absence is to me unplayable now. Which is why I couldn't be bothered to finish IWDEE with my no-minmax, no-munchkin, no-reload party: it's a cake walk as the AI is basically just "attack the first bloke I saw till I die".