Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Why do you guys reroll (stats) so much?

13»

Comments

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Jarrakulkcwise
  • IntoTheDarknessIntoTheDarkness Member Posts: 118
    Why do you think people level up on normal difficulty or check max-hp roll despite it being unfair for AIs? If you use cheats you will often go too far.

    kcwise
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829
    All the fuss over cheating is kind of strange to me. I've been cheating and using cheap and cheesy tactics and dirty tricks for years and I still find ways to make the game challenging and interesting.

    kcwiseBlackraven
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    @semiticgod But apparently it rots your soul from the inside or whatever. Something about solitaire, I think.

    kcwiseBlackraventadancer
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    The reason I level up on normal difficulty (prefer the Max HP option, need to check if that is easily accessible now) is that it simply removes my biggest temptation for a non-critical reload. So much depends on that one HP roll at level up, that will have a permanent impact on the rest of the game. If I roll a 1, especially as a fighter-type, it feels crippling and I am extremely likely to re-roll. And once that starts, I am likely to re-roll even if I get a somewhat decent result like a 7, so this simply takes all of the mystery out, and lets me get on with enjoying the game.

    What I would actually prefer is for the game to roll all my hit dice at character generation, so that no amount of reloading would change the result. Then I know to live with it, despite my weak habits :) In such a scenario, I might like to also know the final HP total at max hit-dice (level 9 or 10, depending on class) but even that is a bit of a cheating look-ahead. It does mean I could avoid a character who was going to end up with an unreasonably low total though, without playing through 9 levels before finding out for sure. All academic though, as that system (roll dice up front) is not actually how the game plays. Other schemes I have seen used successfully in the past are one free reroll if you don't like the result (a gamble for a middling roll) or re-roll if the die is less than half, so you don't get the awkward case of the straight mage having more HP than the (supposed) front line fighter. The game already guarantees max HP at 1st though, which is a big help (regardless of your rolling style).

    kcwiseJuliusBorisovDaevelon
  • GreenWyvernGreenWyvern Member Posts: 247
    edited April 2015

    All the fuss over cheating is kind of strange to me. I've been cheating and using cheap and cheesy tactics and dirty tricks for years and I still find ways to make the game challenging and interesting.

    As I've mentioned previously in this discussion, cheating is acceptable if it's not against your morals and not harming anyone. Such as with many personal values, one should not go around pushing their views onto you to the point of shunning just because you have fun doing something that has absolutely no effect on others.

    I too, enjoy cheesing games. There's a sort of satisfaction from finding a new way to break a game, or to goof around within it, without becoming too powerful for your own good.

    Play the game how you want! If you're lawful about it, then follow every rule, and avoid cheesing as much as you please! If you're chaotic about it, then cheat and cheese to your heart's desire, as long as nobody is harmed by your actions! If you're neutral about it... then I guess it's the equivalent of people using EE Keeper to add attribute points before doing a no reload run? JUST GO OUT THERE AND HAVE FUN!

    semiticgoddesskcwise
  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    Jarrakul said:

    hispls said:

    Because average is average. If you are of average intelligence for example there's a wide range where you're not illiterate but won't really gain any benefits (you'll probably never be able to follow the math of special relativity). From there down you go to illiterate, to slow, to helmet and a drool cup on the farthest end of the spectrum (where it actually becomes a handicap...ie. negative modifiers). One could make similar analogies on the up side where it's only after a certain point above average where it really gives you a measurable leg-up in most situations.

    Obviously it's an oversimplification due to the limits of 3d6 and d20 system but IMO it's just fine given the limitations of the system.

    This kind of discrimination could easily be built into games by making various saves, morale checks, NPC reactions, etc. tied to combinations of Wisdom-Charisma, Intelligence-Wisdom, Intelligence-Charisma. The problem then would be of creating interesting ways within the story-line to implement such distinctions ---- in ways that meta-gaming knowledge can't ignore.

    kcwise
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100

    Jarrakul said:

    hispls said:

    Because average is average. If you are of average intelligence for example there's a wide range where you're not illiterate but won't really gain any benefits (you'll probably never be able to follow the math of special relativity). From there down you go to illiterate, to slow, to helmet and a drool cup on the farthest end of the spectrum (where it actually becomes a handicap...ie. negative modifiers). One could make similar analogies on the up side where it's only after a certain point above average where it really gives you a measurable leg-up in most situations.

    Obviously it's an oversimplification due to the limits of 3d6 and d20 system but IMO it's just fine given the limitations of the system.

    This kind of discrimination could easily be built into games by making various saves, morale checks, NPC reactions, etc. tied to combinations of Wisdom-Charisma, Intelligence-Wisdom, Intelligence-Charisma. The problem then would be of creating interesting ways within the story-line to implement such distinctions ---- in ways that meta-gaming knowledge can't ignore.
    I liked how Planescape Torment handled it.

    High Int/Wis/Cha: Opens up different dialogue options to talk your way out of problems
    High Dex: You can snap a person's neck, thus avoiding combat
    High Str: You can intimidate someone

    etc.

    Different stats mean different ways to play the game, both in combat and in solving problems.

    kcwiseEadwyn_G8keeperSkatan
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    Aren't STR and DEX critical enough in the Baldur's Gate series as it is? And how are you even demonstrating your strength to intimidate someone, by ripping phone books? I think that a low-strength mage could be plenty intimidating, especially if she summons a Planetar to stand behind her during negotiations. I fully support more INT/WIS/CHA checks, though. Anything to make dump stats less viable.

    kcwiseEadwyn_G8keeper
  • fighter_mage_thieffighter_mage_thief Member Posts: 262
    edited April 2015
    Fact is still that if it's rolled, it's legit, and that means a lot to some people. That being said, I generally roll at most for two to three minutes per character because I feel like 84 stat points is generally more than enough, and that's not hard to roll - 18/18/18/10/10/10.

    Sometimes if I play a fighter, I'll roll until I get a natural 18/00 and then deal with whatever points are left, but I know not everyone is like this.

    Technically 78-80 stat points is alright too, since there are stat tomes in BG1, stat alteration in SoA, and that stat machine in ToB. There are also plenty of items to give respectable stats (str belts, dex glove, cha ring). Further, while 18 int seems ideal for a mage, only 10 int is required to learn slvl 5 spells (i.e. everything in BG1 for even a pure mage). For the F/M/T, since you'll cap at L12 at 3mil xp, you only need 13 int, or 16 int if you're going for 8mil, since you'll never get 9th slvl slots anyways. Wisdom doesn't give a lot of bonus spells either, even at 20, although it can't hurt as a clr or drd.

    For instance, I was fine in BG1 with 9/19/16/9/9/17 as a f/m/t (79 pts). I ended up with 10/20/17/10/10/18. It's not perfect (perfect would be 19 str in the end with weapon spec gauntlets), but it's still very effective (ogre power gloves most of the time, but a potion of storm giant strength and weapon spec gaunts for Sarevok, along with invis potions).

    I also like a bit of a handicap, but that's just me. I also feel like it's legit in a different way.

    edit: And Edwin is doing just great with 74 stat points :P

    kcwise
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    @fighter_mage_thief: You must use a lot of Potions of Genius playing a FMT with 10 INT.

    Blackravenkcwisefighter_mage_thief
  • fighter_mage_thieffighter_mage_thief Member Posts: 262
    edited April 2015
    Why memorize spells when you can use wands of fire, frost, lightning, sleep, paralysis, and monster summoning? The only reason to even level is for the thief skills and backstab multiplier. I do remember using that potion that sets your int to 25 when I needed a few spells memorized though, like invisibility. You also get some free spells at character creation.

    kcwise
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,468
    Most wands will become obsolete in BG2.

    10 INT is very low for a Mage. I'd say 12 INT would be a minimum for fairly reliable spell scribing: one potion of genius plus one of mind focusing nets you 19 INT and thus 95% probability. 17 (16 at character creation) is of course much better, as said potions will then give 100% certainty of successful copying.

    I find the differences in the 20-23 range too margincal to justify raising stats to 18 or 19 at character creation, so I'd still end up using potions for important scrolls. Otoh 18-19 INT is nice for scribing spells you can afford to flunk, without using potions.

    joluvfighter_mage_thiefkcwiseJuliusBorisov
  • fighter_mage_thieffighter_mage_thief Member Posts: 262
    edited April 2015
    Right, and I specifically stated 10 for bg1 only, and it was for making a point about stats. If you make a pure caster, you should go for 16 int min imo, but that's just for flavor and rp in bg1. FMT is a different breed, and needs, at least from my playstyle, maybe 4 spells memorized after character creation in BG1. Obviously if you can reach L18 as a mage, you should have 18 int. Also, even with 22+ int, if I fail to learn a scroll, I'm reloading, or I switch to auto memorize, b/c I'm not hardcore like that and see no point in saying goodbye to spells, especially on rare scrolls. I'm also used to Temple of Elemental Evil, where successful memorization is tied to a spellcraft check, which means even with a modest int, success can easily reach 95%, and Neverwinter Nights, where spell memorization has no chance of failure. Incidentally, a FMT in 3rd ed is very gimped lol

    BlackravenkcwiseJuliusBorisov
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,468

    Right, and I specifically stated 10 for bg1 only.

    You did. Don't take it personally. I just wanted to expound my view on beneficial INT scores for mages. Who knows, it will help other readers.

    kcwisefighter_mage_thiefsemiticgoddessJuliusBorisov
Sign In or Register to comment.