Why do you guys reroll (stats) so much?
Heindrich
Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
This discussion was created from comments split from: Fighter\Druid (And Import to BG2:EE).
After @DevilTyphoon said that he spent 4 hrs rolling stats for his Fighter/Druid (and he is by no means the exception, based on comments I've read in the past), it made me wonder... why do some of you spend so much effort rolling for 90+ stats, when it is so easy to just console or Keeper whatever you want?
After @DevilTyphoon said that he spent 4 hrs rolling stats for his Fighter/Druid (and he is by no means the exception, based on comments I've read in the past), it made me wonder... why do some of you spend so much effort rolling for 90+ stats, when it is so easy to just console or Keeper whatever you want?
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I don't even use powergaming stats. As you can see from my Black Pits party. But I do like to have "realistic characters", so I never stat-dump, which usually requires a good roll, and sometimes a very good roll. If I can't get what I want in a few minutes, I just fire up the game and Keeper it later.
Anyway I don't think Keeper'ing stats in the way that I do can be considered cheating because I am not getting any metagame advantage from doing so, I am just avoiding stat-dumping and saving some time.
Hmmm... to avoid further de-railing OP's original subject about Fighter/Druids, I'll split out a separate thread shortly.
But still, something in my heart really wants me to roll the dices over and over again, it's like I'm more attached to my character afterward, I feel like I earned something.
If I wanted perfect stats, I'd just use ordinary cheats :X
@Abi_Dalzim I like the way you think - that seems pretty reasonable to me as well.
Is it just a lack of self control? If you have access to cheats, you'll actually cheat instead of using them as sensible shortcuts? Because there is no difference whatsoever from a "naturally" rolled stat total and one you Keepered in to be the same amount. Heck, you can have it even more convenient with the console, just CTRL+8 everything to 18 and subtract as needed, leaving the excess to be discarded.
You will literally get the exact same result if you fix your stats manually vs. if you reroll them endlessly. The only difference is, you'll get an hour (or more...?!) of your life back.
Most of you are adults. I'm sure you can handle the temptation of powerful tools.
Or use CTRL-8, though that gives you 18/00 STR, and I don't really want my characters to have that exact STR.
Rolling all 17s gives you a better feeling and a natural high than just keepering it in. You are more invested in that character and its stats because you took the time to roll for it.
Although for quite some time I've switched to using normal dice, for which I can use different rule, like 3d6, 4d6 subtract the worst roll, rolling stats in an order (str -> dex -> con -> and so on), some other and the mix of those. I'm not interested in the minmaxing, I just want to try something different. Character creation is one of the more fun parts in RPGs, the same applies for BG.
I like to have one stat to be an 8 and it to be their flaw. Piro, my gnomish Illusionist/Thief (and Bard when I can) usually has an 8 in wisdom because she's super derpy and unaware of everything while her int will be like a 19 because she's super book smart.
Val'myr, my Cleric/Mage elf (drow) Necromancer will have an 8 in strength because he does not train at all in physical stuff. If I need him to melee an arcane strength spell + plate armor + Draw Upon Holy Might will work.
Final example is Aria, my human paladin, usually has an 8 in dexterity. She's strong, sturdy, tactical, has great leadership skills, and has worldly knowledge.
She also trips over everything and is really clumsy.
Paladins have to fail somewhere. Heh.
Sometimes when creating a char for BG2 I add "tomes" in EEkeeper after I have rolled a char without playing through BG1. Sometimes I play through BG1 as well. It depends on my mood.
Also, I couldn't let the below go unanswered: Since when do people who can keep their focus for hours in a row, determined to reach a specific goal, suffer from a lack of self-control? If you're an adult yourself @lord_tansheron, you should have learned by now that it's usually more mature to accept peoples' differences instead of drawing conclusions based on your own preferences/experiences.
Now I prefer to play characters with 75 points but I still re-roll so that the exact distribution of the points would come from the game itself and I could take it unchanged.
The rolling screen is possibly one of the "core" things about BG when I remember my first impressions of the game. They are still with me.
And now when we have PoE where there's no rolling of your stats I feel that rerolling stats in BG becomes even more pleasant. For me, any character in BG starts from a picture and his ability scores.
I guess my assumption that this behaviour had something to do with PnP rules was incorrect. I suppose I sort of appreciate the reward of getting a good roll "fair and square". I think I spent about 10mins rerolling the first character I made to get a 88 roll, (I missed a 90 due to clumsy fingers!) but that was before I learnt about console and keeper.
Anyways to clarify, I am not taking sides here, I was just curious why some people did it.
I can see how rerolling for hours might come across as neurotic to some people, especially when one can simply ctrl-8 or fill in the stats with EE keeper. As many have already said, it's the psychological reward of getting that "ideal" character, whether it's a 95 or getting an ideal distribution of a 75 roll. There's something very satisfying about "getting lucky," as it gives the character a certain uniqueness that would be lost if one simply assigned the scores manually. Fun doesn't have to be rational, does it?
I don't tend to spend very long rerolling anymore, but I remember spending at least an hour rolling for scores in vanilla BG--back when there wasn't a counter to let us know the exact total. If anything, I think it improved my ability to quickly add six two-digit scores in my head. ^.^
The other thing rolling does, even if I were to allow myself to keeper stats, is to grant me license to enjoy my power-gamery streak. What level of stats should I keeper my character to? Why not all 25s? What arbitrary limit should I pick? Rolling for hours will generally get me a low-mid 90s, which is overpowered but not crazy-overpowered, and 'earned'. Stats matter less as xp and kit accumulate anyway, but there is a satisfaction that comes from strutting around like a god. Back in AD&D 1E, it was clear that stats of 19 and above were essentially divine levels, and reserved for deities and demigods (the name of the rulebook that actually gave meaning to those numbers). Likewise, typically gods had stats that were all at least 19, with important stats for their area of expertise rising into the 20s, and only the rulers of pantheons like Zeus, Jupiter and Odin getting the 25s, or even majority 20s stats. With the Tomes, and later with Lum and the Hell trials, I can finish with some genuinely godly stats, which feels like part of the PC's journey.
Back in the vanilla days, I played with duping the BG tomes with save/export, as that somehow felt legitimate while using the (undocumented) console did not. Luckily those days are far behind me now - although mainly as I know how trivial it is to 'cheat' my stats to arbitrary levels so there is nothing clever about doing it via in-game abuse. At least knowing about the console/keeper has freed me from the temptation to even larger excesses of stats!
Ironically, I have found that mains with less than uber stats still perform well enough to thoroughly enjoy the game.
Personally, I only roll for, as @Buttercheese mentioned, about five minutes. I'm alright with settling for a 92, I mean, it feels like I'm cheesing the game enough at THAT! But, alas, I'm much more comfortable with cheesing the game, rather than cheating it. Just my personal preference.
Everyone is different!
I may roll just for the sake of rolling, but it's for amusement(I'm a gambler by nature).
Is taking the bus instead of walking also "cheating" to get to a destination?
Cheat:
"Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination." - Google
Using this definition, something like exploiting a glitch could be considered dishonest, due to the fact you're ignoring the intended purpose of whatever you're breaking, or it could be considered "how the game functions, so it's fair game". When it comes to editing stats in a third-party editor, most people would consider this to be unfair.
Though, who says cheating is bad?
Who are you hurting? If you morally think that using EE Keeper to edit the stats instead of spending forever rerolling is alright, then there should be no problem in doing so. If you morally think that using EE Keeper is too cheaty, then alright, no problem there. [Now, if you're cheating in something like Poker, against real people, you have a problem... unless, that is, everyone you're playing with agrees cheating is an acceptable rule!]
- Using EE Keeper to edit stats is techincally cheating
- Cheating isn't bad, unless it goes against your own morals, or hurts somebody unfairly.
Heck, I cheated a dead cat into the beginning of BGII:EE because I couldn't let go of good ol' "Stinky"! I'm playing multiplayer with AlbinoWyvern, and she said it was alright for me to do this, so I'm not hurting anybody in the process of wasting an inventory slot.
...
Ahh, this is all what I think, anyways. I'm no authority on this stuff!