Because both groups are evil, and there are plenty of other power players out there. If both groups can only find saemon to make the trip, why can't the paladins do it too?
Why can't the cowled wizards send an agent to investigate what happened?
Why can't you prowl the docks and earn the trust and patronage of a pirate captain?
It feels forced that even when you know where to go, and it is a PIRATE TOWN, you still need to make a deal with the devil to get there. It's a bustling port for Cyric's sake!
@Grum: From the standpoint of believability, this makes a ton of sense to me. If you showed up in some random port city you'd never been to and started asking around about who would take you on a dangerous trip to a well known pirate haven, I think you'd be lucky to come up with two potential options, and I wouldn't expect either of them to be "nice" groups. That would only be exacerbated by having very publicly attracted the scrutiny of the civic authorities.
And I'm not even necessarily talking about Faerûn. Can you imagine going to Aden in 2015 and seeing if anyone wanted to take you to Harardhere?
I still hate the way reputation is handled in this game after all these years. There's no reason to lose reputation if there are ways to do evil things without other people knowing.
Why can't I poison the druid's grove and blame it on someone else? What's the point of killing everyone at a wedding to prevent them from talking to the authorities but still lose reputation? If they're dead and there's no evidence, why is my group losing reputation?
I like the idea of the Flaming Fist spawning and fighting you if you do something really bad. I like how there are things like Keldorn turning on you if you decide to kill Valygar. But those moments are few and far between.
I like the way the KOTOR games handled good and evil on a sliding scale based on your actions but you don't have to choose your alignment in those games. So...I guess I don't have an answer on how to fix it.
What's especially odd is that you only get attacked by guards if your reputation gets down to 1 or 2. This means you can murder a random civilian and not get any attention from the authorities because your reputation is at 6 instead of 1.
What's especially odd is that you only get attacked by guards if your reputation gets down to 1 or 2. This means you can murder a random civilian and not get any attention from the authorities because your reputation is at 6 instead of 1.
Yeah, it's odd.
I wish there was a way they could have gotten rid of the old reputation model by judging your alignment based on your actions and decision but I know that would be a huge undertaking and probably wouldn't work.
I guess the best way to put it is I wish reputation would have simply been removed while your alignment would be based on how you played the game. NPC's would leave, join, attack, or seek you out based on your alignment and actions. Similar effects with inns, shops, civilians, authorities, etc.
@CaptRory: Aren't (2) and (3) pretty much up to you? You can put a large majority of quests off until Chapter 6 and rescue Imoen very early.
Not really~ The entire game is based around Rescuing Imoen and Defeating Irenicus. There isn't really a "pause" in the game. I would make rescuing Imoen a much earlier milestone and pad the quest a bit so you have some time to do stuff without being weighed down by Impending Plot. As it is most of the main quest is done when you rescue Imoen and when you get out of the Underdark you have to go save the elves.
I would move some things around and pad it out a bit so you don't feel so rushed through the game.
Hmm. I guess I've always been comfortable telling the elves to hold their horses. Maybe if Bodhi and/or Irenicus kicked your butt the first time around instead of running away (but didn't finish the job for some reason), it would feel more natural to run around leveling up and getting powerful items before facing them again.
Hmm. I guess I've always been comfortable telling the elves to hold their horses.
I do the same thing as punishment for the incredibly stupid way they handled the whole ''Irenicus trying to become a god'' debacle the first time round. Let them suffer for their mistakes a bit longer while I go looking for Kangaxx's body parts.
''Hmm, so our city's most powerful mage has just tried to become a god and nearly destroyed our city? I know, let's reduce him to a husk incapable of feeling genuine love and emotion while letting him keep his powers!''
I can't wait at that point, given that Charname's soul is missing. I tend to pretend that Charname isn't contacted by the shadow thieves until he has made a name for himself, and up until then he has been trying to find other support.
Get your own fiefdom. Try to work the nobility. Stronghold quest over? It didn't work. Abandon the castle and try again.
Rescue trademeet. See if any merchants can help. Nope?
Try the shadow thieves. They don't think enough of you yet so they don't help
Try the cowled wizards. But your morals get in the way or they brush you off
Etc.
Finally you are approached by either Bodhi (she has imoen's soul, so Irenicus is ready for you)
Or the shadow thieves (you are known, and they have become desperate)
Regarding the reputation thing, it really bothers me as well. I like it very much how it's handled in PoE so far, which seems to be rather similar to the old Fallout games, where you gain reputation for specific regions, towns and organizations.
Other than that, I like to think of BG's reputation system more of a Karma meter. I mean, you are a child of a god and the at the center of an ancient prophecy, so there might as well be some supernatural backlash to your actions. Though of course this headcanon doesn't always ad up, because then - for example - you should get bad Karma for either adding all or no evil companions to the party and not just Viconia, Baeloth and Dorn.
What's especially weird about reputation is that the authorities really should be able to handle crime with divination. A paladin from the Radiant Heart could waltz around town spamming Detect Evil and pointing out every bad person in sight. How is crime even possible in a city where Detect Evil is a 1st level spell?
Maybe the Shadow Thieves really do have just that much influence.
Comments
Why can't the cowled wizards send an agent to investigate what happened?
Why can't you prowl the docks and earn the trust and patronage of a pirate captain?
It feels forced that even when you know where to go, and it is a PIRATE TOWN, you still need to make a deal with the devil to get there. It's a bustling port for Cyric's sake!
And I'm not even necessarily talking about Faerûn. Can you imagine going to Aden in 2015 and seeing if anyone wanted to take you to Harardhere?
Why can't I poison the druid's grove and blame it on someone else? What's the point of killing everyone at a wedding to prevent them from talking to the authorities but still lose reputation? If they're dead and there's no evidence, why is my group losing reputation?
I like the idea of the Flaming Fist spawning and fighting you if you do something really bad. I like how there are things like Keldorn turning on you if you decide to kill Valygar. But those moments are few and far between.
I like the way the KOTOR games handled good and evil on a sliding scale based on your actions but you don't have to choose your alignment in those games. So...I guess I don't have an answer on how to fix it.
I wish there was a way they could have gotten rid of the old reputation model by judging your alignment based on your actions and decision but I know that would be a huge undertaking and probably wouldn't work.
I guess the best way to put it is I wish reputation would have simply been removed while your alignment would be based on how you played the game. NPC's would leave, join, attack, or seek you out based on your alignment and actions. Similar effects with inns, shops, civilians, authorities, etc.
I would move some things around and pad it out a bit so you don't feel so rushed through the game.
''Hmm, so our city's most powerful mage has just tried to become a god and nearly destroyed our city? I know, let's reduce him to a husk incapable of feeling genuine love and emotion while letting him keep his powers!''
Get your own fiefdom. Try to work the nobility. Stronghold quest over? It didn't work. Abandon the castle and try again.
Rescue trademeet. See if any merchants can help. Nope?
Try the shadow thieves. They don't think enough of you yet so they don't help
Try the cowled wizards. But your morals get in the way or they brush you off
Etc.
Finally you are approached by either Bodhi (she has imoen's soul, so Irenicus is ready for you)
Or the shadow thieves (you are known, and they have become desperate)
Other than that, I like to think of BG's reputation system more of a Karma meter. I mean, you are a child of a god and the at the center of an ancient prophecy, so there might as well be some supernatural backlash to your actions. Though of course this headcanon doesn't always ad up, because then - for example - you should get bad Karma for either adding all or no evil companions to the party and not just Viconia, Baeloth and Dorn.
Maybe the Shadow Thieves really do have just that much influence.