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Marvel Cinematic Universe

booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
edited May 2015 in Off-Topic
I was talking to @the_spyder about the Marvel movies on the "Gotham" thread, but felt bad for derailing, so here is anew thread!

Lets discuss the MCU here (and DC movie universe too, why not?)


Opening Topic: What unused Marvel character would you like to see in a MCU movie?

Now that they have done Daredevil (my fave), I would like to see Hercules show up somehow. He's a buddy/rival to Thor and even a nice cameo would be cool.

I wish the Fantastic Four were owned by Marvel Studios instead of 20th Century Fox, because their new movie seems like its going to be waaaayyyyyy too dark and serious. They are trying to make up for the first failed attempt by going to the opposite extreme, and I don't think that works for these characters.

Dungeonnoob
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Comments

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    One thing I wanted to say: I think Falcon got screwed. He was a great character in The Winter Soldier and I can't wait to see more of him in the next Cap movie... which is Civil War... which makes it more difficult for him to play a major role.

    On top of that, he makes a cool appearance in a party during Age of Ultron... just to got unused when they needed his powers the most against the Big Bad! Lame.

    On top of that, Black Widow got more screen time in Captain America's movie than his own partner. With Bucky coming back in the next movie, I'm afraid he'll be overshadowed again. This guy is supposed to be Captain America's number one homey, and used to have his name on the cover right next to Cap's. The least they could do is have him fly around a little in the Avenger's movie.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    Thanks for switching threads. I was worried about subverting the other one.

    You make some good points.

    Just a couple of things to fix. Hulk has been in 4 movies, just the same as all of the others (The Eric Bana one, the Ed Norton one and both Avengers movies). And there is another one coming out.

    Agreed that Scar-jo has been prominent in Cap as well as the Avengers, yet still not having her own franchise. I don't think this is a fault with HER per say but with Marvel (now Disney) and Hollywood in general. We don't see many Strong Female lead movies these days. Even Lucy (another Scar-jo flick) and HER, she wasn't really much more than a plot device. With Black Widow movie, I think that there is the potential for a franchise as big as (or bigger than) Captain America or Thor. (as a side note I wonder if, when Chris leaves the role they would consider changing the character the way it has in the comics - i.e. into a woman).

    From a comic perspective, agreed that Black Widow isn't really a "Main" Avenger, but then why not have Janet Van Dyne? She WAS one of the original CORE Avengers, yet no mention of her. I'd personally list Widow as one of the main characters in the movie. Certainly she is more core to the story than even Clint. And the fact that Falcon only got a small role in Cap and in Avengers 2 was just a travesty. Hopefully that will change in Infinity War.

    And it is true the RDJ did get a shot in the arm with Iron Man. I think he deserved it with the performance that he did. I think that Scar-Jo deserves it for the performance that SHE has done. I'd totally watch a franchise based on her Character.

    Finally, I'd be interested in where you got the stats on toy sales. Looking at it from a 'Sales' perspective, she may very well have out-sold the others (except Iron Man). From a Product line and manufacturing stand point, all of the other avengers had anywhere from 4 to 10 times as many different product line toys designed and marketed. Imagine how her sales might have soared if she had a 1 to 1 product count with the others? It might make my point even more so.

    All I am saying is it is about time that Marvel joins the 21st century and actually recognizes that we are ready for Strong women leads in movies. And maybe they will un-mothball Agent Carter into the bargain. I'd love that.

    Nonnahswriter
  • AndrewFoleyAndrewFoley Member Posts: 743
    "What unused Marvel character would you like to see in a MCU movie?"

    Son of Satan. Adam Warlock. Ms. Marvel (current version). Nightraven (Marvel UK). There's some decent characters in the Ultraverse properties, which they will never use, and in the Crossgen stuff, which they might.

    Also, the world needs a NEXTWAVE film.

    NatenSmilingSword
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    As with Gotham, I would like to see them do more to develop the characters they have, rather than trying to cram in new ones.

  • NatenNaten Member Posts: 138
    edited May 2015
    NEXTWAVE film would be amazing!

    image

    I think a Moon Knight or Iron Fist TV series could be pretty great too if done right.

    SmilingSword
  • AndrewFoleyAndrewFoley Member Posts: 743
    Naten said:

    I think a Moon Knight or Iron Fist TV series could be pretty great too if done right.

    Iron Fist is coming on Netflix, I believe. After Daredevil, I've higher than usual hopes that it'll get done right.

    mlnevesebooinyoureyesthe_spyderNaten
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,478
    edited May 2015
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    Hawkeye is the best Avenger.


    I haven't watched Guardians of the Galaxy or Avengers: Age of Ultron, but so far, the only great movie that I've seen is Captain America 2, and that's when it comes to the Phase 2 stuff.

    booinyoureyesNimranmeagloth
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    Captain America 2 was the best Marvel movie imho.

    The one I felt was lackluster were Iron Man 2 (the worst one of the bunch). I feel like Iron Man 3, Thor 2 The Dark World and Age of Ultron were just okay. Watchable and fun, but not over the top awesome. Really loved the first Iron Man, Thor, Capatain America: The First Avenger and Incredible Hulk, but the top 3 imho are Cap2, Guardians of the Galaxy and the first Avengers movie.

    meagloth
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    I agree that Daredevil has definitely shown how a Superhero series can be done properly. Although I absolutely love Agents of SHIELD, I admit that it could be better and it isn't exactly a Superhero story (or at least it hasn't been up to the most recent few episodes). I have high hopes for DD season 2 and the other Netflix outings.

    Am I the only one who is a bit concerned about the new FF outing? I mean the trailers look great, but why the significant change from classic Fantastic 4? Ok, the last two movies were not stellar. But why the significant changes? I'd almost prefer if they created a new team and made the same movie.

    booinyoureyes
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    Now that they put his mother, Helen Cho, in Age of Ultron AND mentioned him when talking about Hulk, I think it is time for Marvel to get their first Asian major character, Boy Genius and the seventh smartest person on Earth Amadeus Cho.

    Oh, and his pal Hercules: Prince of Power. This would be the ULTIMATE buddy cop (well, buddy superhero) movie adopting the great series by Greg Pak and Fred Van Lente (who has co-writer credit with our very own @AndrewFoley for Cowboys & Aliens).

    C'mon Marvel, please make it happen

    image




    Hercules is awesome, so much cooler than Thor. The last time they met Hercules beat him up, using an Ancient Greek fighting technique that has been passed down in my family for generations.

    Since I like you guys, I'll let you in on it. Just don't tell the Trojans.
    image

    meaglothDungeonnoob
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162


    Am I the only one who is a bit concerned about the new FF outing? I mean the trailers look great, but why the significant change from classic Fantastic 4? Ok, the last two movies were not stellar. But why the significant changes? I'd almost prefer if they created a new team and made the same movie.

    @the_spyder
    As I mentioned in the original post, I think they are making a HUGE mistake making the movie so... bleak/dark/moody... emo, that's the right word. They are the Fantastic Four, Marvel's first family, not friggin' Nolan Batman.

    I think they are trying to go off the Ultimate Fantastic Four for the origin story, the way that much of the Ultimate Universe was used as inspiration for the other Marvel movies. Still doesn't excuse them trying to make it some dark operatic tragic movie.

    It just seems like they are overcompensating for the silliness of the first two movies... but they weren't bad because they were silly but because they were stupid. . Silly isn't why the first two FF movies failed, it was because a lot was nonsense and done poorly. For example, the Dr. Doom, (who DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A COOL EASTERN-EUROPEAN ACCENT) stole Silver Surfer's board in the second movie. Then Invisible Woman is like "dude, if we can't borrow it the whole world is gonna die, including you and the home country you love so much" and he response was basically "u mad bro?".

    Guardians of the Galaxy was just as silly as the comics from the mid-2000s were and that worked wonderfully. The FF movie should be about silly, over the top, pseudo-scientific exploration adventure fun, not dark and gritty struggles.

    As Minsc would say, they be adventurers.... let them adventure!

    the_spyder
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    I haven't read the Ultimate series of comics so I don't know what the state of things is today. I do know that they made an emphasis to focus more on younger heroes and I suppose that is fine(ish) but really? Reed Richards as a teenager? And no familial bond between any of them?

    What I hated about the previous 2 outings of FF was Doom. He was COMPLETELY wrong (no offense to Julian as the problem was the story and the writing not his performance). Ok, there were other things wrong with the movies as well, but he was my main problem.

    This new outing looks to be equally wrong in my view. I feel like this is going to be Amazing Spiderman 2 all over again. They've done some AWESOME stuff with The Avengers. Why stray so very far (and so very low) for Fantastic Four?

    booinyoureyes
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    edited May 2015
    Imho, until they made Iron Man, nobody new what the formula was for a truly successful superhero movie. There were many that were decent attempts, and many movies I'd prefer not to think about. I actually watched 2/3 of Elektra... the kiss with Typhoid was not really worth it, and I was then a big fan of both actresses (well, I thought they were hawt. I was an immature early 20s boy). Daredevil with Jolly Irish O'MacBullseye... dear god, did they READ the comics at all? I wasn't THAT familiar with the exact storyline, but I did see the 'Bullseye gets his everything broken by Daredevil' comics through one time. So, those two movies were objectively bad, AND bad at appealing to fans. I think the right people learned from those movies though, and the movies got objectively better. A big thing would be 'use the comics when its possible, but mainly capture the feelings vs religiously following canon', because lots of stuff just won't work perfectly on the big screen. I like the 2nd iteration of Spiderman, the actor was a bit too fit, but really captured some of Peter Parker's character. Toby was a better dramatic actor perhaps, but he didn't quite scream 'Spiderman' the same way.

    Overall, definately enjoyed all the MCU movies, which conviniently excludes the big stinkers. Guardians was unexpectedly good, and most impressive, it has a really wide range of ages it appeals to. I was looking forward to it, not disapointed. Mandarin was a mixed bag, I demand more magic rings. ;) But I thought the performance was excellent.

    Did Omega Red ever show up in anything yet? Kinda a cameo as the villain in Iron Man 2, but obviously not exactly the real deal. Omega Red, Dr. Doom and Juggernaut were my favourite villains, even if they weren't strictly speaking the best. Of course, Dr. Doom would be way to competent to be an Xmen villain... they can barely handle Magneto. Who combines overpowered abilities with some really, really ****ty science, always a bad combo. Still, Xmen had some decent movies, but I think some will be much less impressive after watching Avengers. Days of Future Past was a fine movie, but unfortunately they stole their title from rejected James Bond titles. Xmen movies need more Colossus, damnit, and Fastball Specials. ;)

    I haven't seen the new Avengers movie yet, but been waiting awhile to see Ultron on the big screen.

    If I had to think of a 'cool' character that iirc has been ignored to date, Carnage definately would be a big name. That might easily swing into 'pretty dark' territory, but Carnage should be amazing to behold with modern special effects. MCU iirc has rights for Spiderman movies now, so it'll happen eventually I'm sure. The horde of secondaries you can have in the main Carnage storyline would be huge fanservice too.

    A new FF movie can't be as crummy as the old ones were (mind you, I only saw the first one). I didn't mind the acting so much as the atrocious story/handling of the best Marvel Villain, Dr. Doom himself. Ffs, when Darth Vader is a rip off of you, you MUST be an awesome villain.

    Edit: Should point out, FF may be considered the most family friendly superhero group, but it did have some dark moments, mostly the legitimate perpetual depression of the Thing. Then again, there was also Psychoman, who was really really dark. This was offset by such top tier villains as The Mole Man (...), who was slightly scarier than a toothless doberman. Dr. Doom was pretty dark sometimes too, but I agree, other than Thing, the core members are pretty happy for superheros.

    Black Panther would be pretty cool, Henry Pym is getting a movie already I hear, and those 3 other storylines makes me think of Heros for Hire, and Grey Hulk.

    booinyoureyes
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    DreadKhan said:


    Black Panther would be pretty cool, Henry Pym is getting a movie already I hear, and those 3 other storylines makes me think of Heros for Hire, and Grey Hulk.

    Black Panther and Ant Man are both getting movies!

    Well... sorta. Black Panther is (Wakanda got a shout-out in Ultron!) but Hank Pym will only be the aged mentor for the new Ant-Man. He will be played by Michael Douglas though!

    Marvel's strategy seems pretty clear: get relative unknown moderate-stars for their main roles (Evans, Hemsworth, Renner, etc.) but cast old superstars (Redford, Hopkins, Douglas) as the older mentors

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    @DreadKhan - I agree with you that the second iteration of Spiderman was better (well, the first movie was) than the original. I liked parts of the original, but had a hard time swallowing Tobey as Peter Parker; and what they did with Venom was just sad.

    I also agree that it isn't necessary to stick absolutely to canon, but the further they stray from that the worse the movies get. Amazing Spiderman 2 was pretty poor in my view, despite Andrew Garfield. They just stomped all over both Green Goblin and Gwen Stacy. Shame really. Not to mention what they did with Rhino? I mean come on...

    And I don't think that the new FF movie will be crummy so much as it won't be Fantastic Four. By all accounts it looks very impressive. They just completely rewrite the core characters (unless they did that already in Ultimate?) and not necessarily in ways that are even remotely 'in the spirit of' the originals as far as I know. Maybe it will be a good flick.??

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    I haven't seen the 2nd Amazing Spiderman yet, but Green Goblin is a hard character to do well in a movie, though not much harder in some ways than the Joker I suppose. Both absurd figures you are forced to take seriously. Hmm... Rhino was in it? He's literally dumb as a rock, so he is an easy foe despite his power, unless someone much smarter can control him. He's one of the dumbest Marvel characters ever, only marginally smarter than Savage Hulk.

    Ultimate changes some key facts, the original is campy but good imho. Reed is almost as annoying as Cyclops sometimes, but at least he's a supergenius.

    Black Panther could be god then, and any movie with Henry Pym can't be all bad... right? *feels suddenly worried* Marvel did get some big names though, if not strictly super-A-list for all of them. Gwyneth is still pretty big, and RD Jr became big again. Ryan Reynolds is a big name still. Scar Jo is definately A list, and Nick Fury (Samuel L Jackson) is a pretty major character, and not strictly a mentor imo. Marvel did well on scouting up and comers though, but they also have proven a great vehicle.

  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806

    Captain America 2 was the best Marvel movie imho.

    The one I felt was lackluster were Iron Man 2 (the worst one of the bunch). I feel like Iron Man 3, Thor 2 The Dark World and Age of Ultron were just okay. Watchable and fun, but not over the top awesome. Really loved the first Iron Man, Thor, Capatain America: The First Avenger and Incredible Hulk, but the top 3 imho are Cap2, Guardians of the Galaxy and the first Avengers movie.

    Iron man was the best. That was a great movie. So was cap. 2. Avengers was pretty good, and so was Thor and hulk. Thor 2 was... Eh, like iron man 3. Iron man 2 was really awful.
    Guardians was amazing but it's kinda off I its own little world.

    I haven't seen the new spider man 2, but I really liked the first one.(though I heard the second was lackluster) Spider-Man is a really great character, and they pulled it off really well. The older ones I didn't like at all. Seeing them like 10 years late probably didn't help either.

    booinyoureyes
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    DreadKhan said:

    I haven't seen the 2nd Amazing Spiderman yet, but Green Goblin is a hard character to do well in a movie, though not much harder in some ways than the Joker I suppose. Both absurd figures you are forced to take seriously. Hmm... Rhino was in it? He's literally dumb as a rock, so he is an easy foe despite his power, unless someone much smarter can control him. He's one of the dumbest Marvel characters ever, only marginally smarter than Savage Hulk.

    You'd have to see the movie to understand my complaints. Basically the villains in the movie have zero resemblance to the characters in the comic. All three villains in the piece are totally changed. As a long time HUGE Spiderman fan (hence my profile name), it was quite painful to watch. They literally should have created new names for these guys because they were NOT the characters from the comic. Shame really because after the first movie I wanted to like the second one. And I don't fault Andrew, I significantly fault the writers and director. This was WORSE than the 'Web shooters being organic' and by a HUGE margin.

    booinyoureyes
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    I do have some familiarity with Spiderman, probably not as much. I found the way Lizard was handled was quite reasonable for example, but I was looking forward to #2, but we'll see. I don't mind if they change up stuff because the comics don't transfer perfectly. Some of the older comics were not directed at a very mature audience, and had to reek of patriotic fervor/avoid parental criticism.

    I really enjoyed The Dark World, and got a huge kick out of the period setting for Captain America. I also think Red Skull is a nifty villain though, so I was disposed to enjoy it. Cap 2 was good too, interestingly dark and broody. Normal people trying to beat up Captain America though was a bit silly, he's way too fast (and quite strong) for normals to have much of a chance. Would have liked to see Baron Wolfgang Von Strucker, but I'm patient. I got a kick out of Rourke as the villain in Iron Man 2, he did a great performance. Heck, all 3 Iron Man villains were really good casting calls.

    Guardians was a pretty interesting choice... I can't see why they couldn't have delayed it a bit, since it seems a bit 'stand alone', involving few well known characters. Heck, Ronan and Drax were the only two I could have named off hand. Still, I guess we needed to meet Thanos properly, and it did introduce him, kinda. Infinity Gauntlet is a pretty cool storyline, and Outer Space had great off-beat characters.

    Speaking of Outer Space, and Fantastic Four, I wonder if we'll get much Inhumans stuff. Crystal should get huge corporate sponsorship! I try to avoid spoilers, so I am a bit out of the loop. :wink:

    Aside, anyone watch the Nick Fury movie with The Hoff? Watched that a bazillion years back. TV movie, but better than most TV movies.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    Believe me when I say that they didn't just change stuff "Because it didn't transfer well". I though that the Norman Osborne/Green Goblin in the first round of movies was extremely well done. So it can be translated. What they did with Green Goblin in Amazing Spiderman 2 was just horrible. And it wasn't half as bad as Rhino. He went from a 2nd rate Hulk in the comics to a Gun Toting Iron Man Wanabe in the movie. I honestly had to look up who he was after the movie because he was THAT far from source material.

    As for Inhumans, check out Agents of SHIELD.

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    Ookay, Rhino probably couldn't figufe out which way to point a gun, so thats a bit much. I wasn't completely happy with the Green Goblin, but he was, more or less, pretty close to the comic.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    So just to add to that, Green Goblin in AS2 was Not Norman Osborne. And he didn't wear a mask, he just looked kind of green and freaky. And he didn't show up till almost the end of the movie (as Green Goblin) so no ongoing antagonism of any kind. Just a brief confrontation.

    I tell ya, they went WAY off the reservation.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,020
    I would love to see an X-Men movie with Proteus as the main villain. That storyline was in the mid-80s just before the Dark Phoenix saga (issue 126 or thereabouts). He was a really cool (and scary) mutant with the power to warp reality. What made him memorable to me was that he had to inhabit host bodies and depending on how much power he expended, he'd 'burn out' the body and have to take over another. He was probably closest to Irenicus in his thinking as any comic-book villain I can think of, even worse actually because he thought of humans basically as food. I think with modern special effects they could really hit a home-run with this story (especially since the last few X-Men movies were a bit lackluster in my opinion).

    booinyoureyes
  • TheElfTheElf Member Posts: 798
    Not all that knowledgeable about comics, but I'd say kitty pryde. Also, I know the Hulk's been in plenty, but I'd love something good enough to make me forget the '03 one. :/

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,020
    Kitty Pride was in the X-Men movies but not as a main character. She did have a pretty cool encounter with Juggernaut in the third movie though.

  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    edited May 2015
    I'd love to see them make a Dr. Strange movie, he was always one of my favourite Marvel characters. I think that character could make for a very interesting flick.
    meagloth said:


    Guardians was amazing but it's kinda off I its own little world.

    Not really. They've referenced the Cree in the Agents of Shield TV show, which also ties into the rest of the Marvel universe. There was an episode where they had to fight off a Cree soldier who was sent to Earth to wipe out the powered people, like Skye.

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    edited May 2015
    Belanos said:

    I'd love to see them make a Dr. Strange movie, he was always one of my favourite Marvel characters. I think that character could make for a very interesting flick.

    @Belanos they ARE making one! Starring Eggs Benedict Cumberbabababababatch

    the_spyder
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968


    they ARE making one! Staring Eggs Benedict Cumberbabababababatch

    Well how about that. I wasn't aware of of it before now.

    booinyoureyes
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    Like @the_spyder I LOVE Spider-Man. Daredevil is my fave, but Cap and Spidey are right after.

    but.... Spider-Man needs to be a television series, not a movie. They won't do this any time soon, since as of now movies are more lucrative, but it is not the best engine to tell Spider-Man's story. For many reasons

    1. Peter Parker's actual identity is really important to the character... and the stuff he does every day, trying to balance having a normal young-person life with being a super hero, is the essence of what makes Spider-Man interesting. You don't have enough time in the movies to explore this, since there needs to be a certain amount of BOOM, BANG, POW, MICHAEL BAY in each film to sell tickets. The films did a decent job of doing Peter Parker in a normal setting considering the constraints, but an episodic, serialized format you can do so much more and Peter doesn't have to age 3-4 years between movies.

    2. So many beloved supporting characters. Aunt May, MJ, Gwen, JJJ, Robbie, Ben Urich (was in Daredevil), Harry Osborn, Flash Thompson... and they are all important and play big parts in his life. Can't fit them all in even three movies. You'll end up getting silly cameos for important characters, like Gwen Stacey in the much-maligned Spider-Man 3 (awful)

    3. Playing off the previous point... love interests. He has two. Polar opposite personalities and at different points in his life, one ending tragically. You need time to develop these, and you need to feature both. They could barely do that in TWO different movie franchises. A television series would allow them to develop at a normal pace.

    4. Huge awesome rogue gallery. They have tried to shove too many villains into single movies, and this detracts from their overall appeal. Minor villains on a week-to-week basis would allow the show to feature more baddies and actually give them time to shine. Would also make a cool Sinister Six.



    Unrelated: @meagloth you have excellent taste in Marvel movies.

    meaglothNimran
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