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The great Shadows of Amn conspiracy!



  • JolanthusJolanthus Member Posts: 292
    I think you mean the Hidden are Antagonists (Villains are Antagonists). The Bhaalspawn is the Protagonist (Hero\Antihero).

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,615
    edited September 2012
    @ajwz, I would totally love to see your assembly of the unconsummated clues in the "unfinished business" of the original release be used as the seed of the BG3 story.

    The only problem would be tying in to the required 4th or 5th edition rules, which will be set more than 100 years or so after the Time of Troubles and the Bhaalspawn story. Charname will be either ascended, dead, or living somewhere as a mature non-human. Because of the variety of branched endings that depend on choices made by the player of ToB, I think it will be impossible to incorporate Charname as anything other than obscure references, or else some assumption about a "canon" choice of endings. (For example, Charname is now canonically ascended.)

    However, given the nature of the Illithids and their ability to travel the planes and probably the whole space-time continuum (there are lots of sci-fi tropes in their useage in both BG and NWN), your ideas could still yield a very good story with a new Charname, one that I would very much like to play!

    Devs, are you paying attention?

    Just in case they've already been thinking along the same lines, I would point out that "great minds think alike", so I hope you will not lay claim to these ideas as your intellectual property or something, because then the devs wouldn't touch them.

    But whatever happens in the future with our beloved Forgotten Realms, I must say, yours is the best idea for a BG3 story I have seen to date, anywhere on the internet.

    EDIT: Ha, I just had an interesting idea of my own. What if this grandiose plot of the illithids, spanning centuries of time and space and involving an incomprehensibly complicated web of temporal interference (no "Prime Directive" for these Borg-like supervillains), is an attempt to do no less than overthrow the entire pantheon of the Forgotten Realms universe, including Ao, and to ensure an entire universe's, or maybe at least an entire galaxy's worth of sentient cattle for their consumption, i.e. an unending food supply as a resource for their own incomprehensible ends, in which they likely conspire to transcend even what Forgotten Realms beings would consider deity?

  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    To expand a little, in torment, the Githzeri and Githyanki (both of which are basically the same race) were enslaved long ago by the Illithid in the plane they called "limbo". The Githyanki are more of the martial race from that plane, and it stands to reason why we meet so many in the BG series. The illithid (if I have this right) were exorsized from limbo, so both races are basically seasoned plane travelers.

    I'm not sure if this is the same in the D&D books, but that's what I learned from reading the unbroken circle of Zerthimon.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,615
    @Xavioria, also, the lore you mention forms about half of the basis for the story of Neverwinter Nights 2, especially early in that game. BTW, thank you for reminding me of Zhjaeve, a very memorable game character I very much enjoyed. You've inspired me to eventually play NWN 2 again - love it or hate it, I think it had some very memorable characters, and a pretty close approximation of BG tactics in its combat system. Yep, I definitely need to play that again.

    Forgotten Realms lore is awesome! ;)

  • CrazedSlayerCrazedSlayer Member Posts: 130
    I did wonder whether the illithid were linked to that creature in the giant fish tank that commands you to retrieve the brain of a drow priestess in the Underdark. Perhaps thats an Elder Brain that enacted its plan after you had left.

  • SeldarSeldar Member Posts: 431
    Great ideas here !

    But I'm not sure that Illithids are 100% related to that big plan.

  • SargielSargiel Member Posts: 35
    I'm liking the intrigue & depth of your suggestions :) Would love to get a comment from one of the original team RE your suppositions!

  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    @ajwz : Omg, that's AWESOME! :D

    Start modding, now! D: We'll feed you golden cookies! They are tasty to munch :p

  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 2,002
    i remember specific unsellable rogue stone, which in its description points out to the twisted rune base in the bridge district. i dont remember where did i find it though. perhaps mekrath's place?

  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    @Pecca That one is added by a mod as an attempt to attach the Twisted Rune a little more to the plot.

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    For those who are unsure about the hidden using doppelgangers in there plans, I just want to add a bit as well:
    In durlags tower, the start of Durlags problems came when his clan dug the halls of his tower too deep, and disturbed a group of Illithids nearby. What method did the Illithids use to torment Durlag? Doppelgangers of course! It's likely that this is the first known uncovering of the hidden in the sword coast region. It can't be a coincidence that this same method is used by sarevok much later on.

    As for the problems with setting 4th opr 5th ed hundreds of years in the future, I don't see this would be a problem for a grand conspiracy of the Illithids - Whose plans are likely to take a long time to complete, and who even have mastered time travel.
    Of course, like a lot of people, I'd like BG3 to be set quite soon after BG2, so that a lot of links can still be drawn between the games.

  • CommunardCommunard Member Posts: 554
    The Aboleth are more likely to be opposed to the Illithid than not, since I think the Aboleth mind control world domination plan has the Aboleth at the top, whereas the illithid one doesn't :p

  • drawnacroldrawnacrol Member Posts: 253
    ajwz said:

    This open up the possiblity that the hooded facies at the end of SoA were designed to be the hidden - who have taken over the council of six, and were actuallly the intended protagonists of the sequel

    This I like!

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,615
    Except for the malapropism - the intended word is "antagonists".

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Dammit give me a break, I was writing at one in the morning :p
    Fixed for clarity

  • UnseeyingEyeUnseeyingEye Member Posts: 48
    I would also like to see the Twisted Rune expanded upon. As well as Zallanora Argentresses, also known as Shoon VII and one of the most powerful mages in all of Faerûn. He is secretly controlling the Cowled Wizards and he will come and attack you after you make too much trouble with magic. Though I know that nothing will be expanded upon and he was a simple cameo.

  • RedGuardRedGuard Member Posts: 672
    I would like to see the Twisted Rune expanded upon, but I'm not sure on all these connections people are making. Though some of the possible scenarios do make for interesting ideas for a possible BG3 set soon after ToB.

    Though like many have said before the problem could be with either taking into account what players chose in the ending of ToB or assuming they all declined Godhood. Frankly I'd forgive BG3 for assuming we all declined, but I still think there's an argument for allowing players to keep their Godhood it that's what they chose. By the end of BG2 and ToB you were already high level characters fighting epic battles, perhaps BG3 would just continue with more high level enemies for the most part.

    Plus you could always just say that in human form (which you would be forced to stay in for the most part) you are only so powerful and can't unleash some truly god-like abilities. Either that or play the videogame sequel trope 'reset abilities/level' and have your player character at a more manageable level for the duration of the game.

  • kilroy_was_herekilroy_was_here Member Posts: 455
    What if the grand plan of the illithid/aboleth/doppleganger/Enron alliance is to remake the rules of reality itself? What if they wanted to take the world as it was (ADnD) and remake it again (3.x) and again (4e) and again (next)?

    Shadows of Amn conspirators are WotC/TSR. You heard it hear first folks!

  • ARKdeEREHARKdeEREH Member Posts: 531

    Also, Illithids and Beholders in the same sewers in the same city = bad bad things to come O_O

    The illithids and the beholders live side by side in the Underdark too. In fact, the entrances to their lairs are roughly the same distance apart in the Underdark as they are the sewers. Coincidence?

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,282
    Illithids? Ctulhu? I hope not!
    Mind flayers are so boring to kill..

  • KaxonKaxon Member Posts: 156
    OMG, Trent *must* make this a subplot in BG2EE.

  • KaxonKaxon Member Posts: 156

    Doppelgangers? Illithids?

    Nay, I say. It's that scoundrel Jarlaxle who's up to no good. It's always Jarlaxle.

    Noober is the real power behind Jarlaxle.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,212
    Kaxon said:

    Doppelgangers? Illithids?

    Nay, I say. It's that scoundrel Jarlaxle who's up to no good. It's always Jarlaxle.

    Noober is the real power behind Jarlaxle.
    Where does Neeber fit into all this then?

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