A major necromancery here, but Matt Busigin has recently asked Trent Oster if Beamdog have been working on BG3 and if it has been something like the OP here:
There's something i'd like to add: it is highly unlikely that firkraag/tazok was in league with the illithid. It is more probable that they were helping the githyanki locate and destroy them as red dragons and githyanki have a sort of pact to help each other out since Gith and Tiamat made a deal at some point. Reference: http://www.rilmani.org/timaresh/Githyanki
Just re-reading this, always fun to think about. A solution to a sequel immediately following Throne of Bhaal could go something like the beginning to God of War 2, where you are incredibly powerful in the beginning, but forced to relinquish that power to defeat your enemy, which could be the Illithids deity Ilsensine. The plot could then develop from there, with a quest to regain your power while thwarting the Illithid schemes along the road.
There's something i'd like to add: it is highly unlikely that firkraag/tazok was in league with the illithid. It is more probable that they were helping the githyanki locate and destroy them as red dragons and githyanki have a sort of pact to help each other out since Gith and Tiamat made a deal at some point. Reference: http://www.rilmani.org/timaresh/Githyanki
Very interesting. Meaning that Firkraag was likely going to send Tazok to clear out the illithids, hence the key.
Enter Irenicus. He has discovered charname is a bhaalspawn but also knows of Firekraags plans to destroy him with the help of the hidden.
Irenicus also comes into conflict with the hidden when he is arrested by the coweled wizards (under the control of the hidden) whereas other mages would recieve a warning first, beacuse the hidden are threatened by his presence.
Loved reading your posts on this thread, @ajwz. I couldn't help laughing to myself at the idea of Irenicus getting a warning, though.
Wizards teleport in:
"Well, you just slaughtered 4 thieves and 4 mages in full view of the public through a combination of unsanctioned disintegration, finger of death and other spells. We are not happy about that. But, hey, let's not bicker and argue about who killed who. Take this warning and remember we shall be rather stern with you if you try this again. Now we'll just leave you to carry on with these middling adventurers. Speaking of which here is warning for you too for that magic missile spell, Missy. Remember, not even a light spell unless you are indoors. Then it is totally cool to cast whatever you want. That's the guards problem."
Wizards teleport out leaving Imoen, PC and Irenicus just staring at eachother.
hey thanks, I never thought my insane ramblings and conspiracy theories would attract so much attention. This, along with imoen not existing are the two theories I have which I am pretty sure are accurate.
@JonSnowIsAlive. Having completed the quest for rescuing Jaella for Jan Jansen sometime ago on my latest rerun, I recall Jan mentioning that uncle Gerhart knowlegde of the hidden came from his prior career, which was something akin to a psycologist. One of his cases was a (shadow thief, can´t quite remember) that went far underground in search of treasure and went insane. Not being able to cure him, he went looking for what had done it himself. Of course he found it and also went insane.
In my headcanon, I always thought that Gerhard found the illithid enclave in the sewers or something like that.
Just my copper of thoughts. However this conspiracy is quite intriguing and I would love to see a mod that connected it all.
The way I see, none of this is altering but adding and any lazy lawyer could argue this, for Pete's sake.
I was very disappointed when I realized that none of the things from Unfinished Business were added to the game, for example.
I also was very disappointed with the lazy bridge between BG1 and BG2 (SoD). It's a good game but could be any game. I don't feel I'm playing BG when I play SoD.
Before 2.X, nothing that came in BG was something that I didn't have already using BGT. Maybe it was a big deal for modders but as an average player, I felt that I did a bad purchase. And that's why I complain here so much about IWD not having its 2.X patch
But that's water under the bridge. My money is far gone by now, but these little things made me not buy PSTEE.
Well no not quite. There would no way to alter existing dialogue to make any of these events connect, they would have to introduce a third party that never interacted with any of these existing quests to explain why are connected. There would be no continuity between the steps, everything would feel just as disjointed as it does now.
Well, a translator could have been found in the Underdark maybe for the note, and voila, a new plot could unfurl. Some of the ideas are pretty out there, but there are already connections. It'd be hard as **** for a player to stumble on though, wouldn't it!
Hey, maybe someday someone will go nuts and decide to do a BG 2 expansion (you can easily not hit the ToB cap I find, unless you really do everything in the whole game, or use a small party) and just tie up some damn loose ends and connect it to whatever BG 3 is going to be, other than having illithids in it. Which is boss.
But seriously, if I was rich, I'd hire somebody to at least make a mega-mod to make sense of some of the loose ends, or make them more sane to find out, IE less random like a key in a Dragon's dungeon opening up a door in the fairly far away city's sewers that leads to an illithid dungeon, because WHY NOT. Someday....
I like the idea of ToB, but it desperately needs mega-modding to make it less linear. ToB is just long enough that it feels like a tacked on mini-game, and you very much follow a linear path to a mostly identical set of steps. EE has actually helped a bit by offering you some extra side-quests, depending on your party I guess, and technically you can do Watcher's Keep at any time after you are out of the opening city.
I'm personally in favor of thinking of a way to make ToB way less linear, and with different out comes, which can have some good and some bad even, as in less than optimal wins that are less satisfying.
More to this thread though, I think the there is lots of potential to tie up various loose ends as well, but I think ToB could have been far better if you really felt like you had some control over your destiny, as a level ~30 2nd Ed character almost certainly should. Tying them together sounds interesting though, and might allow something other than the uninspiring Melissan business that nobody seems overly fond of.
If the Hidden and that whole enclave were only one of several under/around Athkatla, that'd be neat, and wouldn't likely be too awful to just have a few illithid dungeons and a big brain to take out, hopefully bigger than the one in the underdark, which can be a pushover for some parties. The whole business was just ever-so-close to making sense, and I think the real connection we all neglect is, of course, Lilarcor, who was no doubt hidden by the Hidden or something, because somehow it knows too much! Despite being very dumb, maybe it overheard something? Maybe you meet the guy that had been living in the sewers for awhile with his Carrion Crawler, and when he chats with Lilarcor later in his house, he reveals that there is a 2nd secret in those sewers, and how to get to another Mind Flayer enclave, which in turn can lead to more.
Maybe even an upgrade for everyone's favourite talking sword, perhaps one that makes him pretty sharp, erm, clever?
Comments
Reference: http://www.rilmani.org/timaresh/Githyanki
Wizards teleport in:
"Well, you just slaughtered 4 thieves and 4 mages in full view of the public through a combination of unsanctioned disintegration, finger of death and other spells. We are not happy about that. But, hey, let's not bicker and argue about who killed who. Take this warning and remember we shall be rather stern with you if you try this again. Now we'll just leave you to carry on with these middling adventurers. Speaking of which here is warning for you too for that magic missile spell, Missy. Remember, not even a light spell unless you are indoors. Then it is totally cool to cast whatever you want. That's the guards problem."
Wizards teleport out leaving Imoen, PC and Irenicus just staring at eachother.
This, along with imoen not existing are the two theories I have which I am pretty sure are accurate.
In my headcanon, I always thought that Gerhard found the illithid enclave in the sewers or something like that.
Just my copper of thoughts. However this conspiracy is quite intriguing and I would love to see a mod that connected it all.
So much potential wasted in the Enhanced Edition...
The way I see, none of this is altering but adding and any lazy lawyer could argue this, for Pete's sake.
I was very disappointed when I realized that none of the things from Unfinished Business were added to the game, for example.
I also was very disappointed with the lazy bridge between BG1 and BG2 (SoD). It's a good game but could be any game. I don't feel I'm playing BG when I play SoD.
Before 2.X, nothing that came in BG was something that I didn't have already using BGT. Maybe it was a big deal for modders but as an average player, I felt that I did a bad purchase. And that's why I complain here so much about IWD not having its 2.X patch
But that's water under the bridge. My money is far gone by now, but these little things made me not buy PSTEE.
Add several notes in the alien language and use @DreadKhan 's idea, for example.
It would be just a matter of a little creative effort. No changing dialogues, but adding new NPCs or items or areas.
Damn, I hate this thread.
Hell I’d pay if you just asked some of the original writters what was planned with ‘The Hidden’ and ‘The Twisted Rune’.
Sounds like it could have been good flavour for a Baldur’s Gate III.
But seriously, if I was rich, I'd hire somebody to at least make a mega-mod to make sense of some of the loose ends, or make them more sane to find out, IE less random like a key in a Dragon's dungeon opening up a door in the fairly far away city's sewers that leads to an illithid dungeon, because WHY NOT. Someday....
So do I. In execution it does not quite rise to the quality of the predecessors, but as a satisfying finale it serves well.
I'm personally in favor of thinking of a way to make ToB way less linear, and with different out comes, which can have some good and some bad even, as in less than optimal wins that are less satisfying.
More to this thread though, I think the there is lots of potential to tie up various loose ends as well, but I think ToB could have been far better if you really felt like you had some control over your destiny, as a level ~30 2nd Ed character almost certainly should. Tying them together sounds interesting though, and might allow something other than the uninspiring Melissan business that nobody seems overly fond of.
If the Hidden and that whole enclave were only one of several under/around Athkatla, that'd be neat, and wouldn't likely be too awful to just have a few illithid dungeons and a big brain to take out, hopefully bigger than the one in the underdark, which can be a pushover for some parties. The whole business was just ever-so-close to making sense, and I think the real connection we all neglect is, of course, Lilarcor, who was no doubt hidden by the Hidden or something, because somehow it knows too much! Despite being very dumb, maybe it overheard something? Maybe you meet the guy that had been living in the sewers for awhile with his Carrion Crawler, and when he chats with Lilarcor later in his house, he reveals that there is a 2nd secret in those sewers, and how to get to another Mind Flayer enclave, which in turn can lead to more.
Maybe even an upgrade for everyone's favourite talking sword, perhaps one that makes him pretty sharp, erm, clever?
I don't know, that death's head thingy in the bottom left corner is just dying to be explored!
Couldn't you just have a sub-map, ie a location to travel to a new map?