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AD&D 5th Edition attempts at fixing 4th Edition - facepalm

AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
So, I've been reading what they've cooked up for Forgotten Realms setting in 5th Edition and how all the Spellplague clusterfuck is supposedly fixed with the Sundering event along with the resurrection of many of the dead gods, for example, such as Mystra (yet again, lol), Eilistraee and the dynamic trio- The Dead Three - Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal.

I wouldn't even call 4th edition a proper AD&D and it seems that changes in FR setting were made without the consent of the major FR writers such as Ed Greenwood or R.A. Salvatore, who now for 5th edition have to write books, where they try to explain what the ef happened during this transition. Although the books themselves are no less facepalm worty as R.A. Salvatore, for example, had no other ideas other than to reincarnate long dead Drizzt's friends - Cattie-Brie, Regis and Bruenor - into other characters. Regis now is a halfling/water genasi, lol.

Furthermore, for the Bhaalspawn saga they came up with a dumb story about how that godawful character Abdel Adrian (who somehow managed to live for over a century) was finally killed by none other than Viekang, who turned into a monster and was subsequently killed later as well, lol. Good riddance. But that's all minor compared to the resurrection of Bhaal himself as greater power. Bhaalspawn saga is totally screwed.

Personally, since 4th Bullshit Edition came out and butchered FR and Planescape settings I'm in denial and no longer consider anything that came out after the 3d Edition as canon, cuz all of that later stupidity was written by total hacks who have no proper knowledge or respect for the settings.

Post edited by Aramintai on
ajwzKamigoroshisemiticgodCandramelekh[Deleted User]SilyBrer_RabbitlolienShapiroKeatsDarkMagejackjackFinnTheHumanmashedtaters
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Comments

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Aramintai said:



    I wouldn't even call 4th edition a proper AD&D and it seems that changes in FR setting were made without the consent of the major FR writers

    agree, and more importantly the players
    Aramintai said:


    Personally, since 4th Bullshit Edition came out and butchered FR and Planescape settings I'm in denial and no longer consider anything that came out after the 3d Edition as canon, cuz all of that later stupidity was written by total hacks who have no proper knowledge or respect for the settings.

    agree, also

    semiticgod[Deleted User]
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,511
    Have to agree as well. While I honestly don't give a flying jelly about deities other than Ghaunadaur and Moander... The whole Spellplague mechanism was unneeded, unwanted and on top of that horribly executed. Worst of all is that they literally butchered the whole Great Wheel cosmology, threw over 60% of it away and mixed the rest into a mountain of guano.

    But enough of that...
    What does the Sundering do for the planet Toril as a whole, exactly? Does it bring back Anchorome, Maztica and Katashaka? What about Zakhara, Kara-Tur or Osse? Will we see a return of Mulhorand, Unther and all the other countries of Faerûn which were "replaced" (or simply deleted for no reason at all) as well? Couldn't care less about this Returned Abeir thing WotC threw at our faces.

    semiticgod
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232


    What does the Sundering do for the planet Toril as a whole, exactly? Does it bring back Anchorome, Maztica and Katashaka? What about Zakhara, Kara-Tur or Osse? Will we see a return of Mulhorand, Unther and all the other countries of Faerûn which were "replaced" (or simply deleted for no reason at all) as well? Couldn't care less about this Returned Abeir thing WotC threw at our faces.

    Yea, it re-separates the worlds, among other things;
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sundering_(event)

    Kamigoroshi[Deleted User]lolienjackjack
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,176
    Aramintai said:

    R.A. Salvatore, for example, had no other ideas other than to reincarnate long dead Drizzt's friends - Cattie-Brie, Regis and Bruenor - into other characters. Regis now is a halfling/water genasi, lol.

    Please tell me that's a joke. There is little I hate more than rehashes like that, it makes me positively raging to see such gimmicks. Bringing back dead characters is a huge warning flag for me to stay the hell away.

    [Deleted User]Brer_Rabbitmashedtatersjackjack
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    edited July 2015

    Aramintai said:

    R.A. Salvatore, for example, had no other ideas other than to reincarnate long dead Drizzt's friends - Cattie-Brie, Regis and Bruenor - into other characters. Regis now is a halfling/water genasi, lol.

    Please tell me that's a joke. There is little I hate more than rehashes like that, it makes me positively raging to see such gimmicks. Bringing back dead characters is a huge warning flag for me to stay the hell away.
    No joke, it's effin serious:
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/The_Companions

    I facepalmed hard upon reading this. But considering that Regis and Cattie-Brie's deaths were Spellplague's fault and WotC seems to want to erase it from FR setting like a bad dream I can't say I really blame Salvatore for wanting to bring everything back to the way it was before. Poor Drizzt though, he had to live through all that.

    Post edited by Aramintai on
    semiticgodBrer_Rabbitlolienjackjack
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    edited July 2015


    The desires of creators often run counter to those of management, and in a shared world environment, the management's going to win most of those arguments. If such an argument occurs, the creator is left with an unpalatable option: walk away or try to execute the idea as best they can.

    And it's a damn shame when that happens, it's sounds awfully familiar to publisher (stingy moneybags/IP owner) vs. game developers (creativity) relationship. No wonder some game devs turn to Kickstarter to avoid publishers bootheel. Unfortunately for AD&D settings writers it's not something they can do without leaving their beloved settings and characters.

    Post edited by Aramintai on
    semiticgodBrer_Rabbit
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,826
    If you haven't read the novels since the Companions of the Hall returned, I'd advise you withhold judgment until you do.

    lolien
  • icebladeiceblade Member Posts: 19
    edited July 2015
    If (A)D&D Fans would be smart they would start a Kickstarter to buy the rights
    to (A)D&D as a collective or buy shares of wotc/tsr to change how things are done
    there, so things could be "fixed" that are broken and to change the direction
    everything takes.

    Maybe there is even a way to unite all Editions into one, perfect edition?

    Post edited by iceblade on
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,095
    I'm pretty sure all of the editions were attempts to create the perfect edition.

    atcDaveBrer_Rabbitlolienmashedtaters
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,397
    Fourth Edition did two things lore-wise for me. It made gnomes canon as Fey and brought the Feywild in. Considering after my obsession with the dead comes my obsession with Faeries and stuff this is AWESOME! I RP that in 2e gnomes can only be illusionists because they draw their magic from the fey realm which I assume would be enchantment/illusion themed.

    Unless of course the Feywild was introduced prior to 4e. I haven't heard of it outside of 4e material, though.

  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    edited July 2015
    Vallmyr said:


    Unless of course the Feywild was introduced prior to 4e. I haven't heard of it outside of 4e material, though.

    Yea, that's 4th bullshit edition remaking FR history for ya:
    Feywild is sort of magical parallel plane to the Prime Material world of Toril and was always in relatively close proximity to it. In some places they overlapped, allowing for passage through. That's how the first fey folk and elves moved to live in what was then a united world of Abeir-Toril. Later both planes separated from each other almost completely, only to come back into very close proximity during the Spellplague event in 4th edition.
    With re-separation of Abeir from Toril and Mystra's resurrection in 5th edition Feywild's probably gonna move away again as well. I'd say good riddance - too many elf types for my liking.

    RAM021
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,397
    Aramintai said:

    Vallmyr said:


    Unless of course the Feywild was introduced prior to 4e. I haven't heard of it outside of 4e material, though.

    Yea, that's 4th bullshit edition remaking FR history for ya:
    Feywild is sort of magical parallel plane to the Prime Material world of Toril and was always in relatively close proximity to it. In some places they overlapped, allowing for passage through. That's how the first fey folk and elves moved to live in what was then a united world of Abeir-Toril. Later both planes separated from each other almost completely, only to come back into very close proximity during the Spellplague event in 4th edition.
    With re-separation of Abeir from Toril and Mystra's resurrection in 5th edition Feywild's probably gonna move away again as well. I'd say good riddance - too many elf types for my liking.
    Awwwww :(
    At least gnomes are still Fey, though. At least I hope they keep that element.

  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    Vallmyr said:


    Awwwww :(
    At least gnomes are still Fey, though. At least I hope they keep that element.

    Well, I suppose those creatures that had already crossed from Feywild will stay in Toril, they're not just gonna dissapear (unlike Abeir parts of the world). That's how it happened before to the elves according to 4th edition.

    Vallmyr
  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 686
    I don't care about "canon". 5E is a great ruleset and storywise they want to present a thrilling setting - the actual OOC evolution that lead to this point is ultimately irrelevant to me. I am glad they renounce those changes I did not like very much and I take what I like and ignore what I don't like. :)

    MagpieRandoms
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    It's all great and fine if you're DM-ing a tabletop adventure with your friends, nobody's gonna look over your shoulder to check whether you follow the official lore and rules or not. But it's another story if some game developer's gonna decide to make an AD&D game - they will have to strictly use only what WotC gives them and stick to it. So I imagine if Beamdog will someday want to make BG3 it will have to be 5th edition with all that lore crap that had happened in 4th taken as canon.

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    edited August 2015
    And just like any table top game I can decide not to participate... (Which is probably where things stand, I don't "need" another game. Or I might, IF they get my interest).

  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    @subtledoctor Couldn't agree more, Planescape was my favourite AD&D setting, so brilliantly written and hard to wrap your head around.

    Brer_Rabbit
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2015
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    semiticgod
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    @subtledoctor
    Ok, join my "in denial" club - there is no canon beyond 3d edition :)
    Or go check out Numenera setting, it's my last bastion of hope for these types of mind blowing settings. Hopefully the upcoming game will do it justice.

    helmo1977
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    I guess as a long time D&D player I just see no canon to anything anyway.

    Use the setting and rules that work for you. WotC is of zero consequence to me. Honestly the only time I've ever played in the Realms is in computer games anyway.

    VallmyrAstroBryGuymashedtatersMagpieRandoms
  • YannirYannir Member Posts: 595
    Just came up with a weird theory about want-based marketing and reinvention of old brands but it's just way too large a thing to write down here. What it comes down to ultimately is that without 4th Ed, AD&D probably would have died a long time ago. I wouldn't be surprised if 4th edition was only ever meant as a marketing strategy for WotC.

    Brer_Rabbitjackjack
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,600
    Be easier to ignore the existence of 4th and 5th edition, like I do, and think of the D&D world as it was in 2nd and 3rd edition.

    Aramintaihelmo1977
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