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does it make a difference if you have a strength of 18 or 18/00?

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Comments

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 1,941
    The manuals could help you overcome your confusion about dual-classing. If you encounter a "bug" again, you can ask for help on the forum.

  • eckistereckister Member Posts: 37
    edited May 2015
    well at first I would have to WANT to enter the human dual class, wouldnt I... as Ive stated 3 times by now, but oh well ....

  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,051
    What bug? Explain exactly what you did, what happened and what you were expecting.

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,543
    Dual classing is not very straightforward, but its not rocket science either.

    If I were you, I would stick to multi-classing, ie use non-humans until you are ready to take an hour or two to work out a good dual class. A nice option is a low level Fighter to mage, going for archery. You can kill mooks safely with your bow, then use spells from the back row safely. Very straight forward. Berserker 13 to Mage is decent, but will be weaker in ToB compared to a FM multi, especially a gnome.

    Note, in BG2, dual classes tendmto fair much worse at very high levels, and have a downtime, so having ToB makes worrying about dualclassing other than in BG1/early BG2 a bit pointless. Dual classing is MUCH stronger in IWDEE, which lacks high level abilities, and rewards GM better still iirc.

    It REALLY sounds like you should either read through the manual or check out the BG stuff at PlayItHardCore.

    eckister
  • eckistereckister Member Posts: 37
    edited May 2015
    *sigh* I shouldnt have brought this up, we are running around in circles...

    ummm didnt IWD have a different ruleset? in third and later rulesets I THINK there was only dualclassing, without having to wait for your second class to catch up with your first.

    as for the constant "read the manual" remark - I have read the description on how dual classing works. you have a class (mage for example), reach a certain level (lets say 10) and then decide you want to add warrior. you play as a warrior from level 1 and when you reach level 11, you gain the spells youve had as a mage. BUT you can never again level your mage... do I have things confused? -.-

    and that is what Ive expected - I wanted to have a backstabbing kensai (for the automatic critical skill kensai have, its a neat skill to have for backstabbing. :wink: ). it was probably working as designed, since Ive made the character to be level 41 (level 20 warrior, level 21 mage, later wanting to carry over to thief), which could cause trouble even though Ive had the exp cap remover, but the dual class system was not designed for such high levels. thats pretty much the most logical explanation I can come up with and PLEASE lets drop this now... its pointless - I can see youre trying to help me and I thank you, but why help when Ive already stated SEVERAL times I dont want to build a character like this? -.-

  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,051
    Icewind Dale 2 was rooted in third edition which permits multi-classing as and when you want to do it. Icewind Dale 1 follows mostly the same rules as Baldur's Gate.

    The reason you are getting some feedback you are perceiving as negative is because you are a) Unfamiliar with the rules and trying to do things which don't work and b) claiming this to be a bug when it isn't.

    In your example you got to level 20 as a warrior which is fine, you then dual classed to mage - this means you would retain the warriors HP total but nothing else and would need to get to level 21 as a mage to get both the level 21 mage powers AND the level 20 warrior powers.

    You have then said you dual-classed again to thief. Without character editing (and maybe even with it) this is impossible to do as you can only dual-class once. Regardless of this if you did manage to do it you would lose all of your warrior abilities (including thaco) and all of your mage abilities until you reached level 22 as a thief upon which time you would gain everything back again.

    The biggest problem here is that levels simply don't go that high. Even with mods I think the highest level is level 50.

    You probably don't actually want any advice as you seem to be playing your own game but if you could specify what you are trying to achieve then I'm sure people would be more than happy to provide some suggestions upon how to optimally build it and progression paths within the ruleset parameters.

  • eckistereckister Member Posts: 37
    *sigh* :smiley:

    well I did already state in my original comment that the warrior was level 20, mage at level 21 and thief at level 22...

    look - Im not perceiving your comments, and the intention to help solve that "thing" (since weve established "its not a bug, its a feature"), as negative. what I dont get is why are we constantly returning to this topic over and over and over again when it was pretty much closed some 8 comments ago (where Ive stated I dont much care for this topic at all)...

    I want to thank both you @decado and also @DreadKhan and @joluv and would like to apologize if Ive made you feel unappreciated. you wanted to help and thats great! you made me learn some things which is even better.

    JuliusBorisov
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,051
    No problem. You've tried to do something and it failed - people try to provide solutions as to how to make it work as well as inform why it didn't work.

    The short of it is people here kinda want to help ;) Happy gaming.

    eckisterJuliusBorisov
  • eckistereckister Member Posts: 37
    ... which is the staple of a great community. ^^

    happy gaming to you as well!

    JuliusBorisov
  • MerinaMerina Member Posts: 303
    Oooohhh... I cannot believe I just read the entire topic from top to bottom. Level 20/21/22 multi-class ... in BGEE? With level cap removal and editing characters beyond what the game is designed for? I can imagine lots of other ways to have fun with the Baldur's Gate series ... but not like that. What a weird approach! :neutral:

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,058
    Dual classes can only have 2 classes.

    There, not so hard to understand, is it?

  • eckistereckister Member Posts: 37
    nope, not in BGEE. its nice to see, that people are attentive readers... :-P

    ok so here we go again - I wanted to see what kind of character you can build in Baldurs Gate 2 (the original one, not the enhanced edition) so Ive made a Kensai and tried to build him into a backstabber (eventually). since I didnt feel like spending a LOT of time on this (since I just wanted to see, wether I SHOULD play and build that character the usual way), I just entered the required exp value into Shadow Keeper and loaded the resulting game - didnt like it and so Ive dropped it, since I couldnt build the character I wanted...

    @Wowo thank you for your hard work...

  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 3,482
    This is one of the funniest threads I've read here :smile:!

    I now this post doesn't add any value to a dead thread, but I just had to write that.

    JuliusBorisoveckisterthelovebat
  • GishGish Member Posts: 74
    I don't bother worrying about it much. I will get a str book to go to 19 anyway or half orc starts with 19. My blade has 19 str after being 18 for part of the game. Not bad :)

    eckister
  • eckistereckister Member Posts: 37
    ye both my chars are at 20 str atm anyway. :smile: Ill post a picture once they are full 25. ;-)

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,058
    eckister said:

    ye both my chars are at 20 str atm anyway. :smile: Ill post a picture once they are full 25. ;-)

    It's easy to get 25, just export a character with the book in their inventory and then import it the required amount of times.

  • pcurtj1974pcurtj1974 Member Posts: 6
    decado said:

    That seems like far too much work.

    If you want to play a ridiculous power house roll up a Fighter/Mage/Thief, remove the XP cap and play solo. It can be a bit tough to start but soon you'll stomp over pretty much anything by yourself.

    Yep, nothing like having a fighter who can backstab and cast spells.

    eckister
  • eckistereckister Member Posts: 37
    edited June 2015

    decado said:



    Yep, nothing like having a fighter who can backstab and cast spells.

    yup, my other char is a f/m/t and he would 3-hit sarevok in backstabs (3 invisibilities memorised at all times, +1 shadow door, for backup. :smile: )

    @Wowo ye Ive used a similar approach before the days of SwordCoastKeeper - I would finish the game, collect all books, export, start a multi-player game, make a char with max str (obviously the books weigh something) and give all the books to him, export that char, start another multi-player game and export that character in all 6 slots, give all books to 1 of them, export THAT one and then start ANOTHER multi-player game, with the character I wanted to use as main and 5 of those with multiple books in their inventory in the remaining 5 slots. and then in was just about drag+drop+use until my lvl 1 had all stats on 25. come to think of it - this apporach was more time-consuming than it needed to be, but oh well, I was around 15 back then... :smiley: too much work nowadays, when you can simply use the EEKeeper if you want to cheat, though granted - the EE Keeper is not as creative. :smile:

    so why do I use this approach now? because I can... :smiley:

  • thelovebatthelovebat Member Posts: 218
    edited June 2015
    It might just be me, but it never seemed very fun to play through the game enough times just to get all the stats up to 20 or some ridiculously high number. Minsc is a great and fun character and three of his stats are below 10. Haha. Essentially at that point of playing through the game 5 times with the same character, I'd rather spend that time trying out some other characters or party layouts instead, or play some other games entirely. I could understand playing through the game once or twice more to try out some mods, but stomping over everything with godlike stats seems more like going through the motions than having fun. It's something I used to do growing up with some games playing through them a good deal, but that was at a time when I had limited funds as a kid to buy games, and didn't have my own PC. Heh. To each their own though, I just go for a variety I guess playing 5 characters one time instead of one character 5 times.

    As for dual classing, it's not too hard to figure out, especially with a guide for character creation (Gamefaqs I think would have a few you can save on your computer). Essentially, Dual Classing is something specific to Humans, while multi-classing is specific to non-humans. The reason Humans get to dual class is because the other races get special bonuses/penalties but Humans don't, meaning they're the most vanilla race in the game outside of Dual Classing, and being the only race who can play as a Paladin or Monk. Classes that aren't eligible for a multi class combination can't be dual classed, so classes like Paladins, Monks, Bards, Barbarians, and Sorcerers can't be dual classed, cus they aren't eligible for a multi class combo (mainly for stuff like game balance and different other restrictions).

    These are the two biggest differences between multi classing and dual classing.

    One, when you dual class, you can only dual class once and earn experience as the new class for the rest of the game(s) and can't go back. So you can only have a maximum of two classes with dual classing. And you have to level up your new class higher than the level of your old class when you switched to a new class, to be able to get the abilities of your old class back. So lets say you started off as a Fighter and chose to dual class to a Mage at level 5. In order to get your fighter abilities back, you need to get to level 6 as a Mage which is one level higher than your old Fighter level. However, for the rest of the game(s) you'll only be at level 5 with your Fighter abilities, and gain experience only as a Mage for the rest of the game(s). Multi classing works differently due to the classes gaining experience evenly and progressing at similar rates, and being able to have a triple class multi class. Along with the fact that only Humans can Dual Class and Non-Humans don't get to, as they multi class.

    Two, dual classing has stat requirements which you need to be able to form a dual class. And an evenly spread amount of 15 stats won't allow you to dual class at the ideal levels in either BG1 or BG2, so your powergaming approach of evenly spread stats to increase together with tomes actually works against you for dual classing. Essentially, you need a minimum stat of 15 for the primary stat of your first class, and a minimum 17 for the primary stat of the class you want to dual class into. Multi classing doesn't have to deal with this as you won't roll lower than any of your stat minimums at character creation for your multi class, since it's pretty much automatic. With dual classing you have to carefully pick out your stats ahead of time for a specific dual class option you want, and at character creation if you scroll down to the bottom of the class description when choosing your class it'll tell you what the prime requirements are for dual classing. It just takes a bit of reading but it's not too hard to figure out.

    Dual classing takes a bit of planning if you want things to work nicely for your first class and still be able to regain those abilities in BG1 with the experience cap. Also certain class bonuses like those things you get every 5 levels or so can also be taken into account for your first class. Just note that if you were to start off as a Fighter and then dual class into say, a Cleric, you would only be able to use blunt weapons with your Fighter abilities just like a multi class Fighter/Cleric, since some class restrictions still apply for weapons and such. So putting points into swords before dual classing to a Cleric would be a bad idea.

    There is one big major advantage of dual classing compared to multi classing. If you choose to play a Human with the intention of dual classing, you can start off as a class kit (like say, a Swashbuckler Thief kit), then end up dual classing into something else later. You can start off as a specialist mage as well, though this isn't recommended as you won't get the high end spells you'd want unless your plan is to dual class into a Cleric for their high end spells instead, with a few Mage spells thrown in (Gnome multi classing is generally the better option). Multi class combos don't get to use kits, while Humans can start out with a class kit then dual class into another class later. Gnomes get the ability to multi class as a specialist mage but that's the only thing close to what Humans can do with dual classing. It honestly just depends on what kind of character you want (a fighter kit dual classed into a mage is a pretty popular option, but plenty of combos are viable). If you want to know more how dual classing works, Imoen for example can be dual classed so experiment with her to try it out. There are a few other NPCs who can be dual classed as well.

    In the original Baldur's Gate you could actually dual class into a specialist mage but the Enhanced Edition balanced things so that's not possible anymore.

    Post edited by thelovebat on
    Kilivitz
  • eckistereckister Member Posts: 37
    edited July 2015
    alright, hands up - who read through that entire thing? :-O

    well ..... if it doesnt make sence to you, dont do it.... thank you for your time!

    *edit* ok so I took the time to read through that thing and Im stunned ..... while we closed the dual-class topic 3 times already, you still took the time to write this "book" about dual-classing and re-open the topic and answer questions which were already answered ......... thank you.... 0_o

  • thelovebatthelovebat Member Posts: 218
    eckister said:

    alright, hands up - who read through that entire thing? :-O

    well ..... if it doesnt make sence to you, dont do it.... thank you for your time!

    *edit* ok so I took the time to read through that thing and Im stunned ..... while we closed the dual-class topic 3 times already, you still took the time to write this "book" about dual-classing and re-open the topic and answer questions which were already answered ......... thank you.... 0_o

    Not exactly a constructive comment but okay, whatever floats your boat.

  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,428
    @thelovebat nevermind his TL;DR attitude. I'm sure I'm not the only one around who enjoys a wall of text every now and then.

    thelovebat
  • thelovebatthelovebat Member Posts: 218
    edited August 2015
    Kilivitz said:

    @thelovebat nevermind his TL;DR attitude. I'm sure I'm not the only one around who enjoys a wall of text every now and then.

    Hehe, yeah I guess everyone is just different. It's not like it even takes all that long sometimes to type up opinions and views like that longwinded, some people just don't want to bother to read it all if it's something they don't agree with or find interesting. Which is fine if that's how they feel, I just don't understand responding like that I guess and also necroing a thread.

    Early in that wall of text I did say this though

    To each their own though, I just go for a variety I guess playing 5 characters one time instead of one character 5 times.

    I guess maybe he overlooked that part I said about possibly just having different tastes. And back in 1998 or 2000 when BG2 came out I could relate a bit more playing through the games a bunch of times, as there were several games back in those days I played over and over cus those were my options at the time and I loved them.

  • eckistereckister Member Posts: 37
    ummmm ..... who revived this thread? me? 0_o really? o_0

    yes I have read your entire post and that does include that sentence I guess ... maybe.... 0_o
    eckister said:

    well ..... if it doesnt make sence to you, dont do it....

    that was my reply .... ..........

    I am really at a loss of words with you ..... confused even...

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,116
    This thread is closed for the good of constructive discussion on these boards.

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