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Viking sword fighting

elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,980
edited November 2012 in Off-Topic
For whatever reason I was having the kind of weekend afternoon where you spend your time watching youtube clips. Anyways, I saw this clip on viking sword + shield fighting that I thought would be interesting to share here. There are others available, this happened to be short and interesting. I can't say I've ever fought or trained with swords, but I assume it is accurate.


Post edited by elminster on
ARKdeEREHHaHaCharadelolienJuliusBorisovTheGraveDiggertypo_tillymeaglothSmilingSwordWithinAmnesia

Comments

  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,338
    Interesting that there's not much footwork and no real advancing/retreating - looks more like two boxers bobbing and weaving with their legs planted.

    elminster
  • BytebrainBytebrain Member Posts: 602
    Shin said:

    Interesting that there's not much footwork and no real advancing/retreating - looks more like two boxers bobbing and weaving with their legs planted.

    They move mostly in side-steps to gain advantage over the opponent.
    I find it very interesting too. Especially when he shows how Hollywood is doing stuff, and how those tactics would play out in the real life.

    lolien
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,580
    "This is how the way to fight!"

    JuliusBorisovlolienMelicamp
  • lolienlolien Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,083
    A clearly underrated thread!
    Wow! Very Viking, much north, such a cool! Wow!

    JuliusBorisovelminsterOneAngryMushroom
  • SquireSquire Member Posts: 512
    Bytebrain said:


    I find it very interesting too. Especially when he shows how Hollywood is doing stuff, and how those tactics would play out in the real life.

    Yes, this is what I've learned from re-enactment: Hollywood techniques don't work in reality - the spin, the big "Raaaagh!" attack (where you keep your weapons behind you where they can't do anything), the "shield is just a counterweight" technique, even the "lock blades and push against each other while having a conversation" technique... this is also why I don't like RPGs that have these special attacks you can do (but can only do it once, and must use an inferior attack for the rest of the fight), because as you can see, fighting doesn't work that way in reality. :P

    About footwork: it's interesting, because in later medieval styles, footwork is very important, especially when you get into renaissance/17th century rapier styles. I've also learned that German and Italian styles employ different footwork - German styles tend to involve getting in close for a quick kill, while Italian styles favour backing away to keep distance. In longsword styles, we tend to learn footwork before we do any blade work.

    lolienJuliusBorisovAdso
  • TheGraveDiggerTheGraveDigger Member Posts: 336
    I like how brutal and messy it is. Life must have been so great back then... just fighting, fishing, hunting, and drinking. No phones, no TV, no Beiber, no nonsense.

    lolienJuliusBorisovAnduinSkatan
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    Yes, and a certain famous Nazi was a 'big' fan of it. :p Scars and all.

    Like I said though, fine if both people do it.

    lolienJuliusBorisov
  • SquireSquire Member Posts: 512
    Also, notice how the sword does not go behind the person, but stays in front of the person, and he uses the wrist and the forearm to make his attacks. He doesn't draw right back and swing the whole arm with a big "Raaaagh!" style attack. Like he said at about 1:11, you keep your sword in front of you so it's always a threat, and your sword is what moves first when you make an attack. This is fundamental to all European martial arts (and probably to all Oriental ones too but I don't study them so I can't comment on that).

    The only time your sword goes behind you in a big "Raaagh!" attack is when you're a disposable bad guy who gets killed in mid-attack by the hero...because that's exactly what will happen if you attack like that.

    So yeah, this is indeed how the way to fight. ;)

    elminsterlolienAnduinJuliusBorisov
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    You always need to face your enemy so wheeling left and right will just make your enemy wheel left and right in a mirrored response... May as well get a few good hits in... One good slash and thrust is all you need...

  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    edited October 2014
    Personally... I'd fight like a highlander...



    That shield must be at least a +2 and grant an extra attack bonus!

    elminsterlolienJuliusBorisovWithinAmnesia
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,768
    I am gonna play the thread necromancer since I only just saw this thread (and because I am evil, muhahahah).

    @meagloth: I am not an expert, but I wouldn't say it's high fashion here. The only people I know who do sword fighting are reenactors, living history players and/or LARPers. Not counting fencing which is a more or less regular sport here (and also a common practice in male fraternities). I heard that some sport clubs are offering Kendo lessons though.

    Other than that, Asian martial arts have been popular here since for ever (I myself took Judo lessons back when I was little and for very short periods I also did Karate and Aikido) but those usually only involve hand-to-hand combat here. Though I have never met anyone who took Kung Fu lessons or the likes. I once met someone who knew Ninjitsu though. People are not to keen about weapons here, aside from maybe their decorative factor.

    Tldr: Aside from fencing, sword fighting is *very* niche here.

    lolienNonnahswriter
  • SquireSquire Member Posts: 512



    Tldr: Aside from fencing, sword fighting is *very* niche here.

    Yep. I dunno where you're from, but it's the same in the UK, actually. I don't even think fencing's all that popular...there are plenty of people who do it, particularly at the universities, but it's certainly not a mainstream sport when compared with the likes of football.

    I think the problem with European martial arts is the lack of a rigid uniform/belt system and stylish katas, which leads people to think of it as not a serious martial art - ironically, this is the thing I dislike most about Oriental martial arts! Of all the ones I tried, the one I got along best with was kickboxing.

    lolien
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806

    I am gonna play the thread necromancer since I only just saw this thread (and because I am evil, muhahahah).

    @meagloth: I am not an expert, but I wouldn't say it's high fashion here. The only people I know who do sword fighting are reenactors, living history players and/or LARPers. Not counting fencing which is a more or less regular sport here (and also a common practice in male fraternities). I heard that some sport clubs are offering Kendo lessons though.

    Other than that, Asian martial arts have been popular here since for ever (I myself took Judo lessons back when I was little and for very short periods I also did Karate and Aikido) but those usually only involve hand-to-hand combat here. Though I have never met anyone who took Kung Fu lessons or the likes. I once met someone who knew Ninjitsu though. People are not to keen about weapons here, aside from maybe their decorative factor.

    Tldr: Aside from fencing, sword fighting is *very* niche here.

    It's probably niche everywhere, but I had heard it was more popular there because a lot of the old treatises are written in German, so it's easier for you guys to read.I don't know how different middle German is from modern German, but I know most people here would need some kind of translation from Middle English.

  • AdsoAdso Member Posts: 122
    edited June 2015
    WMA/HEMA may be niche-ish, but it's spreading like wildfire. Find a study group, school, or club worldwide here: http://www.communitywalk.com/user/view/81443

    Fencing is the use of swords in a training and/or sportive way, not simply modern sporting 3 weapons (foils, épées, or sabers). I fence with German longswords, Italian rapier, etc. Look up the Swordfish Sweden HEMA event on YouTube to see what sporting HEMA is like. There's a really good one coming up in Berlin too.

    @Squire in the UK, some high profile schools I can highly recommend:
    London Longsword Academy: http://www.londonlongsword.com/
    Schola Gladiatoria http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/
    The 1595 Club http://www.the1595.com/

    @Buttercheese by "here" which country are you in/referring to? Deutschland?

    lolien
  • SquireSquire Member Posts: 512


    Apparently the re-enactment/sword-fight scene is big in Poland.

    lolien
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    There is also apparently some armed combat shows before MMA matches in Eastern Europe, which is kinda interesting. These afaik tend to end with a grapple, which isn't strictly unreasonable.

    Provided they avoid the weapons designed to armour pierce, it shouldn't actually be that dangerous. Steel isn't very easy to cut, and a dullish sword will definately have a hard time doing more then dent, but I'd expect getting whacked on a boney area covered by sheeting.

  • AdsoAdso Member Posts: 122
    edited June 2015
    Squire said:

    Apparently the re-enactment/sword-fight scene is big in Poland.

    Ah that. Actually I would lump that in with Battle of Nations, pre-MMA bout stuff, etc. Beautiful kit and harness (harness is the term for "a suit of armour"), but other than that it's just hack/slash, bash, lumped in with most US Ren Fair stuff I've seen. Nothing historical so far, just a slug fest. Look up "harnischfechten" (fighting in armour) to see the real stuff. Note the lack of real technique most of the armoured combat league."

    here are some techniques demonstrated using half-sword:


    @DreadKhan In terms of injuries, if only using blunt steal and using the no-thrust rule most of the BoN and Eastern Euros use, then really only broken hands, and concussions at most. In armoured fencing in the Historcial bouting I've seen, *maybe* the occasional hand injury, but other than that, not much, due to control, rules, etc.

  • AdsoAdso Member Posts: 122
    edited June 2015
    and another vid:

    Post edited by Adso on
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    That might vary depending on the restrictions, but I would doubt serious injuries are likely to occur.

    Regarding 'real world', remember traditional isn't necessarily optimal. Also, battlefield tactics might not fair well in a close-up fight with non-lethal weapons; many techniques are for obvious reasons designed to kill, so if killing isn't on the table, many, many techniques and tricks are impractical. Fencing maintains many advanced techniques/styles in part due to the fact that a move that would be lethal usually wins things, even if your sword isn't dangerous. The rules I expect are designed around encouraging a grapple scenario.

    Concussions btw are potentially pretty serious, especially if you've taken a few. Definately a thing to take seriously!

  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921
    I find martial arts of war to be timeless.

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