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Sea Tower of Balduran: Is't Canon? [New Map Images!]

WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 958
edited December 2014 in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
If you look at Volo's guide of the Sword Coast, and look up Baldur's Gate it looks slightly different but there is one feature that puzzles me: the Sea Tower of Balduran; a sea tower that guards the bay with raise-able chains to be exact. It is accessible by a bridge the leads to a small offshoot island not far from the temple of the Bitch Queen.
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(Thank You @lolien)

Now I know that the team that made Baldur's Gate did cut content [Javenlins, 'That' Two Handed Sword +2, Dialog, and Look at the world map that came with the the box, it has the town Burdusk on it.]. I wonder if The Sea Tower of Balduran was also cut from the game's release or was never considered. Also there are rumours of the sea tower connecting to the city sewers below..

Specifically I wonder if The Sea Tower of Balduran was 'Canonly' constructed within the time of the game: 1368DR. Does anyone have any creditable evidence for a 'for' and or 'against' argument?

Update: [For you 'TL;DR' guys More Pictures *Much Fanfare*!]
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I Hit Gold! ( To Clarify all of the below is nearly all Fanmade @sarevok57‌ )
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(-The 'above' Map Creator: "Just pulled out some BG1 area's and threw them together. The only original feature is the Sea Chain...and it's probably going the wrong way!")
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(Source: http://www.shsforums.net/topic/24573-free-space-inside-the-baldurs-gate/ Interesting Read)

Also Look at the outer 'townships' outside the north and east gates!
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Bonus:
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Tower Timeline Placement: [Thank You @kcwise ]
kcwise said:

In the Forgotten Realms Atlas (published in 1990), the Seatower of Balduran is shown in the map. No date for the tower's construction is listed, but the map has notations referring to locations Drizzt and his companions visited in 1356 DR. So, it seems very likely that the tower was around long before the time of the game.

["I see.. I wonder where the the original developers got there maps from.. *Adds to the 'to do list'*." -from a below post..]
Post edited by WithinAmnesia on

Comments

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    And why the heck would the Sea Tower of Balduran be an artillery device?
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 958
    OlvynChuru said:

    And why the heck would the Sea Tower of Balduran be an artillery device?

    image
    Also it raises chains at the bay entrance to prevent ships from entering or leaving.
  • kcwisekcwise Member Posts: 2,287
    Oh, the humanity!
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 958
    kcwise said:

    In the Forgotten Realms Atlas (published in 1990), the Seatower of Balduran is shown in the map. No date for the tower's construction is listed, but the map has notations referring to locations Drizzt and his companions visited in 1356 DR. So, it seems very likely that the tower was around long before the time of the game.

    I see.. I wonder where the the original developers got there maps from.. *Adds to the 'to do list'*.
  • CluasCluas Member Posts: 355
    Interesting :)
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 958
    edited December 2014
    sarevok57 said:

    @WithinAmnesia unfortunately that map that looks "authentic" of the sea tower is fake, if I'm not mistaken, if you look real close, that building is the friendly arm inn, the castle walls are durlag's tower walls, that bridge is a direct cut of the bridge you cross into Baldur's gate the city, I think that map was just a very very good fan made map, the bottom left of the map is from the area where you get the helm of defense, and the right bottom of the map looks like it is cut from the cloakwood forest map where you get spider's bane, so I think its fake, it be a good one, but is probably fake :(

    I'm guessing you did not read the source page that was linked ? http://www.shsforums.net/topic/24573-free-space-inside-the-baldurs-gate/

    Here is 'THAT' conversation that gives no doubts as to whether it was or was not a 'Fake Map'.. *20 Rolled: Illusion Successfully Dispelled!*

    -Map Creator:
    "Here's an interpretation for you:

    http://www.blackwyrmlair.net/~rabain/images/AR0500.jpg

    It needs some work but you get the idea."

    -Commenter:
    "Wow, was that just something you drew on the fly, or was it something you'd been working on before? (Or was it just something lying around but never implemented?) Looks more or less like what I pictured. That's cool!

    Now you'd just have to slap a few interiors together, come up with some CREs and dialogue, oh and deal with the linkages and other 'minor details'..."

    -Map Creator:
    "Yeah I did it in the past 3 hours. Just pulled out some BG1 area's and threw them together. The only original feature is the Sea Chain...and it's probably going the wrong way!

    I won't be making this mod but anyone wants the area they are welcome to it."

    -"Just pulled out some BG1 area's and threw them together"-
    Yes @sarevok57, it is 100% Fanmade:P.

    [Just in case for everyone else I will put the 'fan made' quote on the Orginal Post:]

    Did this Help Anyone? Yes, No?
    Post edited by WithinAmnesia on
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Definitely fake, unfortunately. Look at the shadows to the right of the main building. The shadows on the ground are roughly consistent with the shadows on the stairs, while the shadows on the outer walls, supposedly cast by the same building, are at an entirely different angle and don't match up at all (although they match the angle of the shadows on the opposite the wall, which would be a much easier mistake for an artist to make). While we're looking at that part of the map, take a look at the northeast coast. The transition from land to water is just airbrushing, even though the other coasts are nicely detailed. Why? There are no convex coasts in Baldur's Gate that face northeast. Now look a bit to the west, at the bridge. Note that the water directly under the bridge is different from the water everywhere else. Still not convinced? Look at the catapults on the south turret. They're mirrored versions of one another. BG1 copy-pastes a lot, but frankly, the official stuff does a better job of it. No, I'm afraid this is fake. Decently-crafted, but fake.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    @WithinAmnesia haha nope, didn't read the source page, doing things like that require waaaay too much effort ;P
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 958
    edited December 2014
    Jarrakul said:

    Definitely fake, unfortunately. Look at the shadows to the right of the main building. The shadows on the ground are roughly consistent with the shadows on the stairs, while the shadows on the outer walls, supposedly cast by the same building, are at an entirely different angle and don't match up at all (although they match the angle of the shadows on the opposite the wall, which would be a much easier mistake for an artist to make). While we're looking at that part of the map, take a look at the northeast coast. The transition from land to water is just airbrushing, even though the other coasts are nicely detailed. Why? There are no convex coasts in Baldur's Gate that face northeast. Now look a bit to the west, at the bridge. Note that the water directly under the bridge is different from the water everywhere else. Still not convinced? Look at the catapults on the south turret. They're mirrored versions of one another. BG1 copy-pastes a lot, but frankly, the official stuff does a better job of it. No, I'm afraid this is fake. Decently-crafted, but fake.

    My friend.. It is 'clearly' fake and I posted about it (Perhaphs you might have 'barely' missed the update?). Although let us look at this quote from the original 'dead' thread where the image came from:

    "Here's an interpretation for you:

    image

    It needs some work but you get the idea."

    Focus on these:
    -interpretation
    -needs some work
    -idea

    It is a 100% fanmade interpretation of the Sea Tower of Balduran that was done in '3 hours' by mashing a bunch of Baldur's Gate Areas together and 'healing' the areas together. If you 'nit-pick' (laking a better term) at the map you will see obvious flaws. Although what do you expect out of a quick sketch from a talented artist? If you have the skills or know anyone who does and or you want to make a highlight list of 'should be dones' please 'muster your forces' to achieve that; it is much more progressive [and would be great and or awesome]. Does this help?

    (For you TL;DR People)
    Edit: Also the Map is Fake: Look at the 'Twin Catapults' one is just a flipped version of the other.. If it was 'a real map' each catapult would have its own unique shadows cast from the same source (sun); 'a real map' would not use the same shadows from one catapult but just flipped to show 'two sources' (thus two suns).
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    WithinAmnesia said:

    Look at the world map that came with the the box, it has the town Burdusk on it

    Never noticed that. Presumably they didn't include it because from the looks of things (based on source material like the Forgotten Realms Atlas) its actually quite a ways northeast from the Woods of the Sharp Teeth. They probably didn't have the map room for it.

    Though it would be a cool idea for a mod.
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    @WithinAmnesia‌: I did not read the original thread, my apologies. In my defense, your post between mine and seravok57's also did not exist when I started writing my post. In any case, I didn't particularly mean to criticize the effort put into making the map (I realize I kind of *did*, but that wasn't the goal). I just meant to dispel the notion that it was something dummied-out of the original game. Since I don't seem to be the only one who didn't read the linked thread, I can't say I'd take it back. Although maybe I'd've used different evidence.
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 958
    edited December 2014
    Jarrakul said:

    @WithinAmnesia‌: I did not read the original thread, my apologies. In my defense, your post between mine and seravok57's also did not exist when I started writing my post. In any case, I didn't particularly mean to criticize the effort put into making the map (I realize I kind of *did*, but that wasn't the goal). I just meant to dispel the notion that it was something dummied-out of the original game. Since I don't seem to be the only one who didn't read the linked thread, I can't say I'd take it back. Although maybe I'd've used different evidence.

    I wrote my 'above' post a bit 'wonky' and realized it half way; I could not find that words for:
    -You most likely started your post without seeing the below one *confirmed*
    -I sounded like a bit of an 'ass' coming down on you for 'almost' looking that you were 'complaining' when I realized that you were not.
    To be honest and without an excuse: I got lazy and posted it up anyway.

    Also, thank you for bringing up 'is it fake' and making me update the post for the people don't read original posts. There is around a '50 to 1' ratio of commenters to viewers and the fact that you bring it up probably means / represented a big part / population of the viewers and thus improved my post indirectly. Thank You.

    *'Kinda' Off topic*
    I am sick of putting masks on while commenting the internet; saying one thing and feeling another. So with that said I am just being honest; I am so beat after work that I just do not care what your 'guy'ses ' negative opinions are about my honest opinions. So take care guys and don't split firewood it sucks.

    @Jarrakul Also I like the this part: "I just meant to dispel the notion that it was something dummied-out of the original game.". And your 'oh noes negatives! *clarity reply mode*' :-P.
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    For you TL;DR guys just spam some Insightfuls, Agrees or Likes, It would make me feel more special and appreciated emotional within a virtual community. Does Anyone personally disagree with that statement for your own Likes, Agrees and or Insightfuls?
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 958
    edited December 2014
    elminster said:

    WithinAmnesia said:

    Look at the world map that came with the the box, it has the town Burdusk on it

    Never noticed that. Presumably they didn't include it because from the looks of things (based on source material like the Forgotten Realms Atlas) its actually quite a ways northeast from the Woods of the Sharp Teeth. They probably didn't have the map room for it.

    Though it would be a cool idea for a mod.
    "Presumably they didn't include it because from the looks of things (based on source material like the Forgotten Realms Atlas) its actually quite a ways northeast from the Woods of the Sharp Teeth. They probably didn't have the map room for it."
    -Hmmn, Ulgoth's Beard? Ice Dungeon? Isle of Balduran? Try to find those 'proportionately' on the world map. *Although those were added in the expansion 'Tales of the Sword Coast' and maybe Berdusk was forgotten about by then and or was already scrapped.*

    I think it got scrapped or maybe it was a just a humble map error like how the Sea Tower of Balduran is attached to the city wall and not in the harbour on the in-box map of Baldur's Gate *personal desktop background*

    What are your updated thoughts Elminster? (in-game you are a cleric mage)
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 958
    edited December 2014
    elminster said:

    imageElminster: Trusting the word of Volo can be a mistake. If nothing else he writes with a vivid imagination, some of which will prove to be simply untrue even at the best of times.


    imageVolo: Says the other contributor to my guide!

    image
    I Also Remembered above Guide Section:
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 958
    Jarrakul said:


    I will admit that Likes, Agrees, and Insightfuls have a distressing amount of influence over my opinion of myself on these forums. It's probably unhealthy.

    It is mostly called 'wanting to fit in'; everybody has it to some degree and most feel varying emotionally insecure when they do not have it. Also it is good to see that you are courageous enough to admit your faults 'in a world' where people hide behind 'masks', fake lives and identities and where some sell out their true selves for a fake, empty, shallow and short lived popularity; but you show your faults. Does that not say something positive about yourself in personal emotional strength?
  • kcwisekcwise Member Posts: 2,287
    I think it can also activate the "gamer gene" since posters can end up feeling a bit like players trying to "win" the forums. There's even a leaderboard and badges to earn!
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    WithinAmnesia said:

    It is mostly called 'wanting to fit in'; everybody has it to some degree and most feel varying emotionally insecure when they do not have it. Also it is good to see that you are courageous enough to admit your faults 'in a world' where people hide behind 'masks', fake lives and identities and where some sell out their true selves for a fake, empty, shallow and short lived popularity; but you show your faults. Does that not say something positive about yourself in personal emotional strength?

    Awww, thank you. :D

    I'm actually what psychology calls a high self-moderator, which means I have a strong tendency to edit my behavior to fit the current social environment. It's helpful for making friends, but does sometimes mean I don't speak out when I should. Given that, it's probably unsurprising that I would care a lot about Likes and such. As you note, they both stem from the same drive to belong.
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 958
    edited October 2015
    Use Deviant Art my friend, most every other online image hosting site is a joke.
    elminster said:

    imageElminster: Trusting the word of Volo can be a mistake. If nothing else he writes with a vivid imagination, some of which will prove to be simply untrue even at the best of times.


    imageVolo: Says the other contributor to my guide!

  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 801
    Well, for the converation about Balduran and the Kuo-Toa -> There IS a Kraken after all to support it.
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  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 958
    @GemHound That sounds great! +10 Insightful.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    This was one of the coolest Insightful topics I've ever read . Hurray!
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