I think I'm the only one who said wisdom is overrated. I still stand by that, btw. Having at least 16 is really helpful early game because a couple extra spells when you'd only have one or two otherwise is handy. I've already since tried to clarify I was mostly referring to NPCs and not your Bhaalspawn.
Even halfway through BG2, I rarely got through an entire day's spell pool before I rested. Turns out a couple extra low level spells didn't really turn the tide of battle after all.
So, I still stand by it being the least important main stat for any class. Charisma has no effect in combat. It's really hard to work a wizard or bard without max INT because the scribing spells gets difficult and annoying but with BG2, you can simply adjust the slider so you can't fail and in that case, Intellegence is also superfluous as it has no effect on combat. I think everyone sees the importance of constitution and dexterity regardless of your class. And good luck functioning with a warrior with less than 15 strength.
You can still be a functional cleric or druid with sub-par wisdom. You cannot be a good warrior, thief, bard or mage without a correspondingly high main stat.
Also Dwarves are better than Half-Orcs for your Bhaalspawn assuming you throw all your tomes the way of your main guy. Half-Orc will start out more dangerous and slightly more difficult to hit but the difference between 19 and 20 strength is actually really small (only a single +damage per attack and 100 carry weight which really doesn't matter because it's pretty difficult to overburden a guy with 19 anyway). The difference between 18 and 19 dexterity is also pretty insignificant for melee fighters. They tie on constitution. The tie-breaker? Dwarves get ridiculous saving throws. +5 bonus vs. Death, Wand and Spells? Huge. Hugely huge.
No question that dwarves are better than orcs from me. Strength in the 19s or 20s is rather moot past the halfway point of SOA (at the latest) when they start throwing strength belts galore at you.
7) "X being added/removed from the game would upset the game's balance."
-"i am 12 and what is this." Game balance? Welcome to AD&D. Welcome to Baldur's Gate in particular. The sheer amount of totally game-breaking things you can do that's already in the game is legendary.
I don't understand the need to nerf, hinder, or shoot down other people's ideas for additional player options in what is haled as the "Greatest CRPG of All Time." Do you know why it's hung around in the upper eschalons of video game nerds for as long as it has? Replayability. Every time you roll a new character that's a class/kit you haven't played before, oh man! It's a new experience.
It's a strategy RPG. The point in games like that is to out-think the encounter. Does it upset the game's balance if I choose to bring a cleric in my party? I mean, they single-handedly make 90% of the encounters cake-walks because you can go IMMUNE to the reason said encounters are difficult. I don't see people crying about Mages being OP despite the sheer number of otherwise difficult encounters they can end literally by a single spell, and often times from a freakin' consumable item. Remember all those struggles you had in Bodhi's den but then the next time you played the game, you brought along a 500 gp scroll that made all the vampires simply sit there as you wailed on them? Protection From Undead Scrolls ruin the game's "balance." I guess we should take those out, too.
But somehow people wanting the option to dual-class INTO a kit instead of simply out of one would break the game's balance. Meanwhile, Sarevok just trigger Deathbringer Assault against Kendai and won that encounter in a hit. Congratulations. Your CHARNAME Fighter12/Assassin38 is totally too OP, man.
Next time you choose to decry game balance, remember it's a freakin' single-player, story-driven RPG where you are already allowed a near limitless number of mega-cheesy options. ---------------- I would go add this to my OP in this thread, but unlike everything else there, this one is really steeped in opinion. I'm just saddened by the number of people shooting down people's ideas that would expand game content simply because they dislike the way meta-gamers play the game.
If you want to RP, go ahead! I'm glad you get a lot out of the game by doing so! I do not, however! I understand wanting to role-play in RPG games. I am a huge fan of my own personal narratives I create for my guys in Elder Scrolls and Fallout games, and write my own fantasy novel in my spare time. But I've been there and done that with the BG series, and still really enjoy the tactical gameplay. I want to shatter my RPGs with an iron fist and make them cry under the might of my broken-ass characters and tactics. I don't think you're playing it wrong when you make a fighter with 16 strength, 7 constitution and 18 charisma. Please stop suggesting I am some sort of horrible because I roll for 15 minutes til I get three 18s and everything else is at least a 10.
I gotta agree with you there. I've come to accept that fighters and bow users will absolutely destroy things up until about levels 8 to 9. About that time clerics and mages/wizards start coming into their own. By 20 there is just no real contest anymore. It doesn't mean your non cleric or wizard PC is any less of a character is just the massive balance of power shift in D&D.
I think its one reason I like Assassins, Wizard Slayers (gimped as they are [only cause I'd like more goodies for them]), kensai, rangers, paladins, bards (especially blades), monks, and various multiclasses. They level with you so you always have new shinies to look forward to other than just new weapon proficiency.
And that list ended up a lot longer than I expected it too. I suppose Swashies deserve to be on there too.
Yeah I hear you there. Part of the reason I like dual-classing is because of the period before you regain your skills. Kensai/thief ends up as one of the most powerful melee combatants in the game and is capable of winning a ton of battles with a single backstab, but when he's just a thief trying to regain those Kensai levels? Total dead-weight. And it's a really long period if you want him to be "overpowered" for Throne of Bhaal.
Do you know if paladins get bonus spells for high wisdom? I generally only give my paladin WIS 13 to start but maybe I should be giving her another couple of points.
@Isair: The difference between +10 damage a level and +11 is kind of a moot point. I think that's what Dragonspear was getting at. Plus half your party is running around with some sort of equipment that boosts their strength to 19 or better regardless of what your dude's stats are.
@Permidion_Stark: They do not get bonus spells for high wisdom. Not sure if that's an AD&D thing or an IE thing, but yeah. There is really no incentive to bump up your paladin or ranger's wisdom. Besides, even if it did you could leave it as low as possible during character creation and get a bunch of extra level 1 and 2 spells just because of the 3 tomes of wisdom throughout BG1.
@Iakrids: There are some bonuses to various things in AD&D proper for high wisdom and intelligence. However those bonuses were not implemented into the Infinity Engine.
Don't you get bonus to some saving throws, for a wisdom and intelligence?
Personally i have a rule, that every stat must be at least 10 or higher, and yes even Cha.
I do the same thing, CHARNAME is supposed to be Exceptional in all ways to the point that people of all alignments will follow him If you have a glaring disparity in a particular area it will be noticed and you will not be as popular. So I have my rule of minimum of 10 for the CHARNAME stats.
You forgot the incredible power of Protection From Evil. In BG1 it was absurdly powerful because it gave a flat bonus of 2 to AC and was stackable. You could just fill level 1 slots up with this stuff and dominate.
Of course, it's since been changed to something less powerful, but still quite effective: A (non-stacking) boost that gives a -2 penalty to all attack rolls made by evil enemies, and I believe it gives a saving throw bonus as well. Given the sheer amount of evil enemies in the game, this makes PfE 10' Radius a fantastic party buff.
I get the points that WIS boost through tomes only applies to PC priests, but I disagree entirely. If your PC is anything BUT a priest, you'll have no real use for those tomes of WIS (unless you're a Mage who's going to be imported to BG2 and really, really wants the best results from Wish). You slap them onto someone like Branwen and she's running 19 WIS - not quite as much as 23, but still giving you an ample boost to spellcasting. Crappy WIS clerics like Tiax and Quayle are still crappy WIS even with those Tomes.
Forgive me on the Constitution, I did my math wrong. Honestly the Con one is always hard to decide for me cause its both evil (I've played Rangers and Paladins thus far) so that is a negative. I also like the good option there even though its pointless in ToB (Immunity to Normal and Magical +1 weapons).
As far as the strength, while yes you can get it that high (again another evil option), the game has items to increase your strength (belts) to 19, 20, 21 and 22 (which goes away and becomes 25 Crom Faeyr) and also you can use the upgraded longsword in watcher's keep that would give you 22 Str. It's not only that the damage increases are small, but also that there are just so many different options for increasing your strength. My personal favorite will always be Draw Upon Holy Might though with a Dwarven Fighter/Cleric
Normally I just toss all the tomes on my PC anyway since otherwise the stats just vanish in SoA. Besides LORE IS IMPORTANT TO A PALADIN I SWEAR. JK JK
And I ignored Protection from Evil because of the 4th level spell. Trust me I love the first level or paladin varieties and use them MUCH more often than PoE 10'
"Poor STR and DEX don't matter at all in BG1 because of the Gauntlets of Ogre Power and Bracers of Dexterity!"
First off, there's only one of each. Ajantis has abysmal DEX. Khalid has poor DEX for a fighter. Minsc has even worse DEX for a fighter. Odds are, in a good-aligned party, you're going to have at least 2 of those NPCs. You give the DEX Bracers to one and the other's stuck with his base stats. And basically every warrior in the game who's not Minsc or Shar-Teel "needs" the Gauntlets of Ogre Power. So what do you do then?
Not to mention the fact that every NPC who uses the Gauntlets or Bracers to boost their stats misses out on awesome items like Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise or Bracers of Archery.
Now, I get that BG isn't about min/maxing, and NPCs with less-than-perfect stats can still function perfectly well (hell, I've beaten the game using Khalid, what, three times now?). But the point still stands: These items don't work as a magic cure-all to every NPC's woes.
The biggest issue, and I see this a lot, is when people say, "Yeah, you can just use DEX as a dump stat when creating your character, because you can just go grab the Bracers of Dexterity super early on." Terrible, terrible idea.
There are enough potions in the game for any character race/class combination with any stats you care the name to solo the game with relatively little problem if you are an experienced player.
@Dragonspear Also, if you were to visit Watcher's Keep in BG2 and use Lum's Machine to get to 22 Wisdom, then 23 when talking to Sarevok ... this seems like a really silly question but if you then went into ToB would Watcher's Keep be reset or no? If so you could get a 24 Wisdom.
Good thread. I never heard anyone say Slings suck tho. In BG2, EVEN DARTS are good! Darts of Stunning hell yeah!!!
I do wish Tiax was a little better tho. Yes, "you can make any NPC useful"... but some are useful by default. Some are sadly not as well built as a few others. It sucks that Viconia and Edwin, for example, are the clear-cut best NPC's at their roles.
There are enough potions in the game for any character race/class combination with any stats you care the name to solo the game with relatively little problem if you are an experienced player.
Granted, but I'm not talking about soloing. You could roll a character of all 3s (or as many as possible, given class restrictions) and still solo the game if you're an experienced player.
The problem is when people start saying "Minsc might be strong, but Khalid with Gauntlets of Ogre Strength is stronger, therefore Khalid is a great NPC!" It's like, so what?
@Dragonspear Also, if you were to visit Watcher's Keep in BG2 and use Lum's Machine to get to 22 Wisdom, then 23 when talking to Sarevok ... this seems like a really silly question but if you then went into ToB would Watcher's Keep be reset or no? If so you could get a 24 Wisdom.
Watcher's Keep isn't reset. It is part of the world map in TOB so once you clear it out, you are done with it.
@MilesBeyond: Khalid has poor dexterity? Since when? And here I was thinking 16 was pretty good especially considering he is the only warrior with 16s in both dex and constitution. Base-stats, he's probably the most durable character in the entire game. More HP than Montaron, more AC than any warrior short of Shar-Teel and Kivan, and enough strength to equip full plate. Khalid is one of the best NPCs from a stats standpoint in BG1. It's between him and Ajantis in terms of well-roundedness in tank form.
I also argue Khalid is a better NPC for that exact reason. You can fix his deficiencies better than you can Minsc's. The problem is when you decide you're going to go ahead and go the Ogre Power Khalid route and then decide to pick up Coran with the plan to make him a melee combatant.
But yes, it is important for people to plan accordingly. If you're going to run both Anomen AND Keldorn, make sure you plan your battle strategies accordingly because you can't have both of them effectively tank at the same time until really late into Throne of Bhaal, and it's probably a really bad idea to use both of them on the same playthrough if you yourself decided to dump Dexterity down to 7 for the same reason. I'd argue the bigger reason not to dump your dexterity just to use the Gauntlets of Dexterity is because while you can do so pretty safely in BG1 as they are obtainable early and easily, the same cannot be said in BG2. The Cult of the Eyeless questline and the corresponding Ghoul Town where you pick them up is easily the most difficult area inside the walls of Amn and as such are dangerous to rush after.
@Quartz: Watcher's Keep progress is independant of being in SoA or ToB. Everything you do there while still inside Shadows of Amn will still be done in Throne of Bhaal. I recommend buying the sweet items you can from the shop outside and at least clearing everything but the final encounter on the first floor ASAP for Shadows of Amn because you get some ballin' equipment that will last you the entire game for fairly easy.
@MilesBeyond: Khalid has poor dexterity? Since when? And here I was thinking 16 was pretty good especially considering he is the only warrior with 16s in both dex and constitution. Base-stats, he's probably the most durable character in the entire game. More HP than Montaron, more AC than any warrior short of Shar-Teel and Kivan, and enough strength to equip full plate. Khalid is one of the best NPCs from a stats standpoint in BG1. It's between him and Ajantis in terms of well-roundedness in tank form.
16 DEX is crappy for Khalid because he doesn't have anything else going for him, lol. Khalid's just a fighter, nothing else, and so he needs super-high stats, IMHO, to be really distinctive. Minsc is a Ranger that can Rage, Montaron and Coran both have an entire second class on the side, Ajantis has all his Paladin goodies, heck, even Kagain benefits from his 20 CON.
Khalid has... Infravision?
Like, 16 DEX isn't bad by any means, but if the dude wants to be a competitive choice for an NPC, he needs more. I'm not even sure if I'd take him over Shar-Teel.
I mean, sure. I'll grant that if BG were to become some sort of UFC for NPCs, Khalid would come out pretty close to the top. But as far as overall usefulness? Without some pretty amazing stats, he's gonna fall short of other NPCs.
The way I like to cast it is: Khalid and Montaron both have the same stats for STR DEX CON, just in a different order (15 16 17 for K, 16 17 15 for M). So it adds up to the same. And Khalid is probably a slightly better fighter than Montaron. But Montaron is still far and away the better NPC because he's nearly as good as Khalid at fighting and fighting is only half of what he does!
He has 17 constitution and therefore has a boatload of HP compared to like... ALL of the NPCs in BG1 really. Constitution is the most poorly represented stat in that game. He's also single-class so unlike any multi-classed fighter you'll run into down the road, he actually benefits from said high stat. (Multiclass guys only get +1 HP per level until they reach 18 constitution, which no multi-class NPC in BG1 has.) He's a better raw tank than Shar-Teel because she's only slightly more elusive than Khalid but has way less HP.
Plus the fact he's a raw fighter you can get at level 1 means you can focus him down whatever path you want. He makes one of the best archers in the game if you decide you'd rather roll with Ajantis or Yeslick as your main melee damage absorption tampon and therefore get 4 pips of proficiency in bows. If not them, then simply put all your points into Large Swords and rip faces off with Twinkle (or Varsiconia once you're forced into Long Swords for BG:EE)
Is he a little on the boring side? Sure. But he's still good. I would say there is still plenty that separates him from other NPC picks. If he joined as late as Alora, then I'm sure I'd be on the hate train with you. There are "better" NPCs but if you're wanting a guy to stand there and take hits while dishing it back out in return, I can't think of anyone who does it better.
Honestly I consider being paired with Jaheira his biggest fault because she's pretty crappy. I usually hack her dexterity to her BG2 value just so I don't feel crippled by bringing her.
@Dragonspear I typically use items such as the Crom Faeyr and belts on NPCs but you're right regarding DUHM - When I've played a cleric/ranger I've usually used Lums bonuses (dex,con,int) on NPCs and indeed in evil parties I also spread around stats like wis, int etc.
@sandmanCCL Khalid in my mind is a fantastic character, could never understand why people hate on him. I usually had him using Twinkle & the gauntlets of orge power, that's all he really needs to be a great fighter. He can pump up long swords to 4 and in BG1 that was a great weapon to focus in, Kagain is a great fighter but is far less stat ballenced than Khalid & uses axes which are lacking in the game. Shar-Teel makes a much better fighter/thief as I have often said. Hopefully she'll remain so pipwise in BGEE, I'd really like her to use a short shord - single weapon style (that's once she's F/T).
Jaheira housesits, she does become quite powerful in BG2 thanks to the greater connection with crockery.
Jaheira crappy? She's a good fighter, and she can be your main healer in a good party, since there are no "good" clerics other than Branwen (technical neutral is the best you can get in vanilla for a good party, unless maybe you take Yeslick, but you can't get him until pretty late). Also, clerics usually don't get 5th level spells in BG1, and that's the spell level where they really start to shine. (Chaotic Commands, Raise Dead).
I usually still want a cleric so I can get Remove Fear, Silence, and Hold Person. But Jaheira makes a great second healer who can also fight, and use daggers, darts, scimitars, and spears. And, she comes at second level when you first meet her, so she has a leg up on xp.
Jaheira doesn't really excell at anything, though. I'd rather she was just a druid for BG1. Outside of constitution, she gets what? 2 level 1 spells from wisdom? That's her only other positive trait. She isn't even very capable with ranged weapons due to her low dexterity. At least in BG2, she's got the dexterity to sling people down pretty good.
She's merely "okay." She's bottom of my list for divine spellcasters in BG1. If it wasn't for Khalid being the ubertank that he is, I'd probably use Branwen instead every game until I picked up Yeslick.
Comments
Even halfway through BG2, I rarely got through an entire day's spell pool before I rested. Turns out a couple extra low level spells didn't really turn the tide of battle after all.
So, I still stand by it being the least important main stat for any class. Charisma has no effect in combat. It's really hard to work a wizard or bard without max INT because the scribing spells gets difficult and annoying but with BG2, you can simply adjust the slider so you can't fail and in that case, Intellegence is also superfluous as it has no effect on combat. I think everyone sees the importance of constitution and dexterity regardless of your class. And good luck functioning with a warrior with less than 15 strength.
You can still be a functional cleric or druid with sub-par wisdom. You cannot be a good warrior, thief, bard or mage without a correspondingly high main stat.
Also Dwarves are better than Half-Orcs for your Bhaalspawn assuming you throw all your tomes the way of your main guy. Half-Orc will start out more dangerous and slightly more difficult to hit but the difference between 19 and 20 strength is actually really small (only a single +damage per attack and 100 carry weight which really doesn't matter because it's pretty difficult to overburden a guy with 19 anyway). The difference between 18 and 19 dexterity is also pretty insignificant for melee fighters. They tie on constitution. The tie-breaker? Dwarves get ridiculous saving throws. +5 bonus vs. Death, Wand and Spells? Huge. Hugely huge.
No question that dwarves are better than orcs from me. Strength in the 19s or 20s is rather moot past the halfway point of SOA (at the latest) when they start throwing strength belts galore at you.
7) "X being added/removed from the game would upset the game's balance."
-"i am 12 and what is this." Game balance? Welcome to AD&D. Welcome to Baldur's Gate in particular. The sheer amount of totally game-breaking things you can do that's already in the game is legendary.
I don't understand the need to nerf, hinder, or shoot down other people's ideas for additional player options in what is haled as the "Greatest CRPG of All Time." Do you know why it's hung around in the upper eschalons of video game nerds for as long as it has? Replayability. Every time you roll a new character that's a class/kit you haven't played before, oh man! It's a new experience.
It's a strategy RPG. The point in games like that is to out-think the encounter. Does it upset the game's balance if I choose to bring a cleric in my party? I mean, they single-handedly make 90% of the encounters cake-walks because you can go IMMUNE to the reason said encounters are difficult. I don't see people crying about Mages being OP despite the sheer number of otherwise difficult encounters they can end literally by a single spell, and often times from a freakin' consumable item. Remember all those struggles you had in Bodhi's den but then the next time you played the game, you brought along a 500 gp scroll that made all the vampires simply sit there as you wailed on them? Protection From Undead Scrolls ruin the game's "balance." I guess we should take those out, too.
But somehow people wanting the option to dual-class INTO a kit instead of simply out of one would break the game's balance. Meanwhile, Sarevok just trigger Deathbringer Assault against Kendai and won that encounter in a hit. Congratulations. Your CHARNAME Fighter12/Assassin38 is totally too OP, man.
Next time you choose to decry game balance, remember it's a freakin' single-player, story-driven RPG where you are already allowed a near limitless number of mega-cheesy options.
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I would go add this to my OP in this thread, but unlike everything else there, this one is really steeped in opinion. I'm just saddened by the number of people shooting down people's ideas that would expand game content simply because they dislike the way meta-gamers play the game.
If you want to RP, go ahead! I'm glad you get a lot out of the game by doing so! I do not, however! I understand wanting to role-play in RPG games. I am a huge fan of my own personal narratives I create for my guys in Elder Scrolls and Fallout games, and write my own fantasy novel in my spare time. But I've been there and done that with the BG series, and still really enjoy the tactical gameplay. I want to shatter my RPGs with an iron fist and make them cry under the might of my broken-ass characters and tactics. I don't think you're playing it wrong when you make a fighter with 16 strength, 7 constitution and 18 charisma. Please stop suggesting I am some sort of horrible because I roll for 15 minutes til I get three 18s and everything else is at least a 10.
I gotta agree with you there. I've come to accept that fighters and bow users will absolutely destroy things up until about levels 8 to 9. About that time clerics and mages/wizards start coming into their own. By 20 there is just no real contest anymore. It doesn't mean your non cleric or wizard PC is any less of a character is just the massive balance of power shift in D&D.
I think its one reason I like Assassins, Wizard Slayers (gimped as they are [only cause I'd like more goodies for them]), kensai, rangers, paladins, bards (especially blades), monks, and various multiclasses. They level with you so you always have new shinies to look forward to other than just new weapon proficiency.
And that list ended up a lot longer than I expected it too. I suppose Swashies deserve to be on there too.
Do you know if paladins get bonus spells for high wisdom? I generally only give my paladin WIS 13 to start but maybe I should be giving her another couple of points.
Personally i have a rule, that every stat must be at least 10 or higher, and yes even Cha.
@Permidion_Stark: They do not get bonus spells for high wisdom. Not sure if that's an AD&D thing or an IE thing, but yeah. There is really no incentive to bump up your paladin or ranger's wisdom. Besides, even if it did you could leave it as low as possible during character creation and get a bunch of extra level 1 and 2 spells just because of the 3 tomes of wisdom throughout BG1.
@Iakrids: There are some bonuses to various things in AD&D proper for high wisdom and intelligence. However those bonuses were not implemented into the Infinity Engine.
You forgot the incredible power of Protection From Evil. In BG1 it was absurdly powerful because it gave a flat bonus of 2 to AC and was stackable. You could just fill level 1 slots up with this stuff and dominate.
Of course, it's since been changed to something less powerful, but still quite effective: A (non-stacking) boost that gives a -2 penalty to all attack rolls made by evil enemies, and I believe it gives a saving throw bonus as well. Given the sheer amount of evil enemies in the game, this makes PfE 10' Radius a fantastic party buff.
I get the points that WIS boost through tomes only applies to PC priests, but I disagree entirely. If your PC is anything BUT a priest, you'll have no real use for those tomes of WIS (unless you're a Mage who's going to be imported to BG2 and really, really wants the best results from Wish). You slap them onto someone like Branwen and she's running 19 WIS - not quite as much as 23, but still giving you an ample boost to spellcasting. Crappy WIS clerics like Tiax and Quayle are still crappy WIS even with those Tomes.
@SandmanCCL
Loved your point on game balance.
@Isair
Forgive me on the Constitution, I did my math wrong. Honestly the Con one is always hard to decide for me cause its both evil (I've played Rangers and Paladins thus far) so that is a negative. I also like the good option there even though its pointless in ToB (Immunity to Normal and Magical +1 weapons).
As far as the strength, while yes you can get it that high (again another evil option), the game has items to increase your strength (belts) to 19, 20, 21 and 22 (which goes away and becomes 25 Crom Faeyr) and also you can use the upgraded longsword in watcher's keep that would give you 22 Str. It's not only that the damage increases are small, but also that there are just so many different options for increasing your strength. My personal favorite will always be Draw Upon Holy Might though with a Dwarven Fighter/Cleric
Normally I just toss all the tomes on my PC anyway since otherwise the stats just vanish in SoA. Besides LORE IS IMPORTANT TO A PALADIN I SWEAR. JK JK
And I ignored Protection from Evil because of the 4th level spell. Trust me I love the first level or paladin varieties and use them MUCH more often than PoE 10'
"Poor STR and DEX don't matter at all in BG1 because of the Gauntlets of Ogre Power and Bracers of Dexterity!"
First off, there's only one of each. Ajantis has abysmal DEX. Khalid has poor DEX for a fighter. Minsc has even worse DEX for a fighter. Odds are, in a good-aligned party, you're going to have at least 2 of those NPCs. You give the DEX Bracers to one and the other's stuck with his base stats. And basically every warrior in the game who's not Minsc or Shar-Teel "needs" the Gauntlets of Ogre Power. So what do you do then?
Not to mention the fact that every NPC who uses the Gauntlets or Bracers to boost their stats misses out on awesome items like Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise or Bracers of Archery.
Now, I get that BG isn't about min/maxing, and NPCs with less-than-perfect stats can still function perfectly well (hell, I've beaten the game using Khalid, what, three times now?). But the point still stands: These items don't work as a magic cure-all to every NPC's woes.
The biggest issue, and I see this a lot, is when people say, "Yeah, you can just use DEX as a dump stat when creating your character, because you can just go grab the Bracers of Dexterity super early on." Terrible, terrible idea.
I do wish Tiax was a little better tho. Yes, "you can make any NPC useful"... but some are useful by default.
The problem is when people start saying "Minsc might be strong, but Khalid with Gauntlets of Ogre Strength is stronger, therefore Khalid is a great NPC!" It's like, so what?
Watcher's Keep will not reset and is only capable of being completed one time.
I also argue Khalid is a better NPC for that exact reason. You can fix his deficiencies better than you can Minsc's. The problem is when you decide you're going to go ahead and go the Ogre Power Khalid route and then decide to pick up Coran with the plan to make him a melee combatant.
But yes, it is important for people to plan accordingly. If you're going to run both Anomen AND Keldorn, make sure you plan your battle strategies accordingly because you can't have both of them effectively tank at the same time until really late into Throne of Bhaal, and it's probably a really bad idea to use both of them on the same playthrough if you yourself decided to dump Dexterity down to 7 for the same reason. I'd argue the bigger reason not to dump your dexterity just to use the Gauntlets of Dexterity is because while you can do so pretty safely in BG1 as they are obtainable early and easily, the same cannot be said in BG2. The Cult of the Eyeless questline and the corresponding Ghoul Town where you pick them up is easily the most difficult area inside the walls of Amn and as such are dangerous to rush after.
@Quartz: Watcher's Keep progress is independant of being in SoA or ToB. Everything you do there while still inside Shadows of Amn will still be done in Throne of Bhaal. I recommend buying the sweet items you can from the shop outside and at least clearing everything but the final encounter on the first floor ASAP for Shadows of Amn because you get some ballin' equipment that will last you the entire game for fairly easy.
Khalid has... Infravision?
Like, 16 DEX isn't bad by any means, but if the dude wants to be a competitive choice for an NPC, he needs more. I'm not even sure if I'd take him over Shar-Teel.
I mean, sure. I'll grant that if BG were to become some sort of UFC for NPCs, Khalid would come out pretty close to the top. But as far as overall usefulness? Without some pretty amazing stats, he's gonna fall short of other NPCs.
The way I like to cast it is: Khalid and Montaron both have the same stats for STR DEX CON, just in a different order (15 16 17 for K, 16 17 15 for M). So it adds up to the same. And Khalid is probably a slightly better fighter than Montaron. But Montaron is still far and away the better NPC because he's nearly as good as Khalid at fighting and fighting is only half of what he does!
Plus the fact he's a raw fighter you can get at level 1 means you can focus him down whatever path you want. He makes one of the best archers in the game if you decide you'd rather roll with Ajantis or Yeslick as your main melee damage absorption tampon and therefore get 4 pips of proficiency in bows. If not them, then simply put all your points into Large Swords and rip faces off with Twinkle (or Varsiconia once you're forced into Long Swords for BG:EE)
Is he a little on the boring side? Sure. But he's still good. I would say there is still plenty that separates him from other NPC picks. If he joined as late as Alora, then I'm sure I'd be on the hate train with you. There are "better" NPCs but if you're wanting a guy to stand there and take hits while dishing it back out in return, I can't think of anyone who does it better.
Honestly I consider being paired with Jaheira his biggest fault because she's pretty crappy. I usually hack her dexterity to her BG2 value just so I don't feel crippled by bringing her.
@sandmanCCL Khalid in my mind is a fantastic character, could never understand why people hate on him. I usually had him using Twinkle & the gauntlets of orge power, that's all he really needs to be a great fighter. He can pump up long swords to 4 and in BG1 that was a great weapon to focus in, Kagain is a great fighter but is far less stat ballenced than Khalid & uses axes which are lacking in the game. Shar-Teel makes a much better fighter/thief as I have often said. Hopefully she'll remain so pipwise in BGEE, I'd really like her to use a short shord - single weapon style (that's once she's F/T).
Jaheira housesits, she does become quite powerful in BG2 thanks to the greater connection with crockery.
I usually still want a cleric so I can get Remove Fear, Silence, and Hold Person. But Jaheira makes a great second healer who can also fight, and use daggers, darts, scimitars, and spears. And, she comes at second level when you first meet her, so she has a leg up on xp.
She's merely "okay." She's bottom of my list for divine spellcasters in BG1. If it wasn't for Khalid being the ubertank that he is, I'd probably use Branwen instead every game until I picked up Yeslick.