Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Race Restriction for Romances

ZidaneZidane Member Posts: 1
edited September 2012 in Archive (Feature Requests)
Would it be possible for the race restrictions for romances to be removed? I understand the need for flavor and that not everything is equal in the eyes of the characters, but it felt too punishing for playing a non "human" type race with regards to this subplot. I remember modding BG II to allow any race to romance and the fact that I wasn't one of the normally romance-able races never came up to ruin the immersion of the subplot.

LadyRhianshadowstriker85reedmilfamEdvinSilenceMoiraXylinaValchistZinodinMrKrisSatanKirinaldo_Q_DragonspearbadbromanceKirkor
«134

Comments

  • KouTheMadKouTheMad Member Posts: 77
    agreed! i hate playing human like races, and limiting me from romancing a characters because i greatly dislike humans is rather unfair to me.

    ValchistDragonspear
  • CrazedSlayerCrazedSlayer Member Posts: 130
    I wouldn't mind the restrictions remaining if the characters were obvious as to why they wouldn't be interested in that race. I always go with human to avoid that problem (cause who doesn't love humans? Am I right?)

    Stormvessel
  • KouTheMadKouTheMad Member Posts: 77

    I wouldn't mind the restrictions remaining if the characters were obvious as to why they wouldn't be interested in that race. I always go with human to avoid that problem (cause who doesn't love humans? Am I right?)

    see comment above yours to answer your question

  • kilroy_was_herekilroy_was_here Member Posts: 455
    edited September 2012
    I guess romancable NPCs are totally ok with CHARNAME's divine heritage, but not their mortal one?

    Post edited by kilroy_was_here on
    RexfaroensisDragonspearFina92
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    I have to agree with this unless there are specific romances for other groups. Or have it so that a certain charisma might enable override of the racial preference - sort of the irresistable other, if that makes sense. I mean, Viconia might not dig elves in general, but the 'right' elf or whatnot?

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    KouTheMad said:

    agreed! i hate playing human like races, and limiting me from romancing a characters because i greatly dislike humans is rather unfair to me.

    But , but if you dislike human like races why would you want to romance one?

  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,127
    Tanthalas said:


    But , but if you dislike human like races why would you want to romance one?

    Anomed is only romanceable human, all others are elfs or half-elfs "-)

  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    There are no romanceable humans. There is a plot for Anomen to romance somebody - my first statement stands.

    EdvinJalilyMoira
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,127

    There are no romanceable humans. There is a plot for Anomen to romance somebody - my first statement stands.

    I see your point and agree.

    Anomen is too stupid to be human and his " romance " is to much terrible to be count...

  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    OMG. I love the Chibi Baldur's Gate peeps on DeviantArt! Best is Imoen, although Minsc is cool, too.

  • SilenceSilence Member Posts: 437
    You don't know pain until you're a half-orc lookin' for love in the BG universe. Because then you can only romance Viconia. Well, actually you can't, because the romance wasn't originally coded properly. And then on top of that, even if she were to become romanceable somehow, she's the only romantic interest who...

    (spoiler)

    ...dies.

    So please. Please. Fix this. Half-orcs are humans too. Half-humans who need to be loved. +1 STR/CON is not worth this kind of suffering.

    Support racial equality.

    SilyRexfaroensis
  • KaxonKaxon Member Posts: 156
    Yeah, I agree. I think it would be fine to restrict certain romances by race, as long as every race had a romantic option. But since Half-Orc, Dwarf, Gnome, and Halfling have no options at all, there's a big incentive not to play those races.

    Hopefully by the time we get to BG2EE, they'll either have added options for everyone, or they'll remove the restrictions. It's not as much of an issue in BG1 - except that I want to take one character all the way from BG1 through ToB, so it affects my decisions when making my BG1 character.

    Moira_Q_
  • AurenRavidelAurenRavidel Member Posts: 139
    I thought gnomes could romance Aerie? Can anyone confirm/deny this? She holds gnomes in high regard thanks to her backstory, so that's one of the reasons I think it somewhat justifies this.

    Gotta say I disagree with this concept, since it compromises the writers original views of the characters they created. The thought of Jaheira romancing a dwarf seems completely laughable and doesn't make any sense for her character.

    I can understand the frustration for the vertically challenged characters, though. Pity they didn't make Mazzy and Korgan romanceable for you.

    CrazedSlayer
  • MoiraMoira Member Posts: 173

    The thought of Jaheira romancing a dwarf seems completely laughable and doesn't make any sense for her character.

    How come? She's happy to romance a halfling after all. They all are. (All four will accept humans, half-elves and halflings. In addition, all but Viconia accept elves; Viconia was supposed to accept half-orcs but it was bugged; Aerie accepts gnomes.)

    But even if they weren't, I find the race restrictions on romances unfounded when the reasons for such haven't been written into the characters. So, Viconia not romancing an elf is understandable, although I'd rather see the romance address the enmity between the races and possibly overcome it (it's hardly the only obstacle in that one). If the race isn't a noteworthy issue in the writing, allowing options for the player and granting them access to game content should come first.

    I actually feel the same way about limiting romances based on gender. If it's relevant in the story, fair enough. If not... why limit the options of the player?

  • AurenRavidelAurenRavidel Member Posts: 139
    Well, DnD races, especially in the earlier versions, are pretty much just stereotypes. Dwarves like breaking rocks with hammers and pickaxes, drinking and killing goblins (not necessarily in that order). They'd chop down trees for mine supports, clearly apathetic regarding nature or its precious 'balance', which is one of the reasons they often didn't get along with elves. They weren't even allowed to be rangers or druids until 3E, since they were so deeply rooted in these tropes. Dwarves are traditionally Lawful Good folk who care more about what's going on underneath the ground than above it. Lawful Good is their default alignment in Monster Manuals.

    Jaheira, being the True Neutral druid she is, has very little in common with the typical dwarf. She'll find their adherence to strict laws stifling, their black-and-white views of the world absurd. She won't even bond with them as a fellow warrior, because she's more open-minded about who/what she kills than most dwarves would be. The only good tribe is a dead goblin tribe by dwarven standards. A druid might look at a goblin tribe and see it's value in keeping the balance in a region, whether it halts the expansion of civilization or keeps a hungry dragon from feeding strictly on the other wildlife.

    And, failing that, dwarves are short, stocky and hairy. My girl Jaheira can do much better. She shouldn't set her sights so low. ;)

    MoiraRexfaroensis
  • MoiraMoira Member Posts: 173
    edited September 2012
    @AurenRavidel, well argued :D Nonetheless, I think it would be better to allow player's choices in romance dialogue take care of determining compatibility or lack of it. Not all dwarves are L/G, hairy sticks-in-the-muds after all.

    AurenRavidel
  • SilenceSilence Member Posts: 437
    Since when does allowing a hero to be loved compromise the integrity of the fantasy universe of the characters therein? CHARNAME is a Bhaalspawn. Greatest hero (or villain) there is. If Jaheria's gonna love any dwarf, it's probably gonna be the one who's part God.

  • AurenRavidelAurenRavidel Member Posts: 139
    Changing the options would clearly compromise the artistic vision the writer(s) had for the character they created, which is the part that, as a writer, bothers me. They clearly intended for romance not to be an option for dwarves with the three available lasses. Why? I can't answer that. My assumption is that dwarves wouldn't be romantically appealing to them, possibly for the reasons I've mentioned earlier.

    I don't just view the npcs as lines of code - I think of them as having personalities that can preclude certain things. If people want to mod things to change the game, then that's fine. The Enhanced Edition is being released in an official capacity, though, and should not change the original personalities.

    If Trent and the talented team at Beamdog want to introduce characters to fill the romance void, more power to them. I personally dislike the idea of the characters I've grown to love being changed from a narrative perspective.

    CrazedSlayer
  • SilenceSilence Member Posts: 437
    I don't view these NPCs as lines of code either - they are very memorable characters. However, I don't know if I agree with 'restricted romances' being central to the artists vision here. If Jaheria had a reason for only liking elves and half-elves, that would be interesting and would enhance the story. But she doesn't. No reason is declared, and many players would frustratingly discover that certain romances were impossible through trial and error without having been told so either by the character or by the game.

    I think Bioware had it right when they moved towards more of the open romances, like in the ME and DA series. They had memorable characters who preferred a certain type of personality (usually evil or good) but did not require them to be of a specific race, class or creed. I don't think it's a good idea to just limit one race entirely from having romances, whether it's logical or not.

    Still, this is an easy mod for people to do. So it's not like Beamdog has to do it for us. :)

    AurenRavidelMoiraDragonspear
  • AurenRavidelAurenRavidel Member Posts: 139
    @Silence you and @Moira are too nice/reasonable. The pleasant, rational discourse in this thread is going to confuse people! ;)

    I'm all for making things more open. As I've stated in other threads, I think everyone should have romance options, no matter what their character choices may be. I just want the quality to remain and the characters not to suffer for it.

    SilenceMoiraDragonspear
  • RexfaroensisRexfaroensis Member Posts: 134
    Edvin said:

    Tanthalas said:


    But , but if you dislike human like races why would you want to romance one?

    Anomed is only romanceable human, all others are elfs or half-elfs "-)
    Haer'Dalis is a tiefling

  • zarffynzarffyn Member Posts: 175

    Edvin said:

    Tanthalas said:


    But , but if you dislike human like races why would you want to romance one?

    Anomen is only romanceable human, all others are elfs or half-elfs "-)
    Haer'Dalis is a tiefling
    Haer'Dalis is not technically an available romance option for a PC.

    Unless you install Aeryn's awesome mod. :)

    Moira
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,355
    I know it's fantasy and all, but it just doesn't seem plausible that an elf and dwarf would be attracted to one another. And I can't imagine a half-orc going at it with a halfling.

  • SilenceSilence Member Posts: 437
    @AurenRavidel: Yeah, I enjoy a good discussion. This forum has been great so far. People have been real civil...good example of that is this thread:

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4541/baldurs-gate-ee-is-a-cheap-moneygrab-no-prove-me-wrong-then/p1

    The poster was underwhelmed by BG:EE and wanted to be convinced that be BG:EE is worth 20$. And 95% of people actually tried to convince him and somehow a flame war did not start. Remarkable.

  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,355
    @EpitomyofShyness Okay, so either a well-endowed halfling or an "under"-endowed half-orc...??? Anything else would require a few healing spells afterwards ;-)

  • EpitomyofShynessEpitomyofShyness Member Posts: 113
    @Mortianna haha yeah, but in all seriousness I couldn't get enough of this

    http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/047/3/b/Garrus_by_Azint.jpg

    So for me Halflings with Half-Orcs is small fry stuff. I just don't see it as a big deal. Now an NPC having distinct personal preferences is fine, if that's the way the writer sees them, but in general I think it should be mostly open.

    Moira
  • MoiraMoira Member Posts: 173

    Changing the options would clearly compromise the artistic vision the writer(s) had for the character they created, which is the part that, as a writer, bothers me. They clearly intended for romance not to be an option for dwarves with the three available lasses. Why? I can't answer that. My assumption is that dwarves wouldn't be romantically appealing to them, possibly for the reasons I've mentioned earlier.

    In an interactive medium the story works differently than in others. I fully agree with you that characters aren't just scripts. However, they also have that gameplay/interactive dimension. Some parts of of him/her are written into the unchanging story (and this is where your point stands) but some parts of him/her can vary between different playthroughs, starting from whether an NPC is ever encountered by the protagonist to how the character develops during the playthrough, depending on the player's choices (within the framework of the game).

    It can be argued that it's a "canon" feature of Jaheira that she isn't attracted to dwarves based on the fact that in original BG1 her romance content isn't available to a dwarven CHARNAME. It can also be argued whether it's such a key feature of the character that changing it would change her. You think so, @AurenRavidel, I think it isn't :) But where our differences of opinion are, is not in the importance of artistic vision. It's in the grey zones between what can (and should be possible to) be affected by player's choices and what can't.

  • MoiraMoira Member Posts: 173
    Mortianna said:

    I know it's fantasy and all, but it just doesn't seem plausible that an elf and dwarf would be attracted to one another. And I can't imagine a half-orc going at it with a halfling.

    Out of curiosity, do you find it more plausible that an elf and halfling or gnome were attracted to each other?

    As a sidenote, in Dragon Age: Origins, elf/dwarf relationship was possible and IMO credible. Of course it can be said that D&D (elves and) dwarves are stereotyped differently, but I personally enjoy and prefer RPG characters that aren't enslaved to those stereotypes. From roleplaying perspective, the BG protagonist isn't even brought up in their respective culture, they're brought up by Gorion, a very learned human.

    EpitomyofShyness
  • MoiraMoira Member Posts: 173
    Silence said:

    You don't know pain until you're a half-orc lookin' for love in the BG universe.

    The female gnomes that could find no love at all in BG2, feel your pain.

    EpitomyofShynessSilence
Sign In or Register to comment.