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Could the new clear text be made optional?

I suspect it is way too late to make this feature optional, but also know that if you don't ask, you are unlikely to get ;)

In the latest stream-cast, Amber pointed out how the new text rendering has a background that makes it much easier to read, regardless of the background. I agree that the effect works, and is a clear gameplay improvement. However, the text appears to the *on* *top* *of* our view of the game world, rather than *in* the game world, and that breaks my immersion a little. Depending on how I am playing the game, I might prefer the other effect.

To put it in a bit more context - sometimes I am having fun throwing stuff at the D&D rules, and mostly playing the number/kit game, I am roll-playing. In this mode, the clearer text clearly make for a better game. Other playthroughs are a lot more about the immersion into the characters and the story, I am role-playing. In this mode, I prefer to minimize the chrome around the game, and play with a more immersive interface. This is why it is nice that different UI elements can be toggled today, supporting my own variety of play styles for the same game, and a trend that I see is supported for some of the new features like health-bars too - which is much appreciated!

Ulb
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Comments

  • Mikey205Mikey205 Member Posts: 302
    My only concern with the clear text is that it kind of covers the world and the art. It's probably a sacrifice worth making but optional would be good. One thing im not so keen on is the new dialogue and inventory easy read fonts. Id like something that feels a bit more classic or an ingame option to switch to the old font.

    ValamirCleaver
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,557
    I have no problem with the clear text--i really like it, actually--but I'm really, really not fond of the red highlighted text in dialog... Maybe both could be (separably) optional (?)

  • CerevantCerevant Member Posts: 2,314
    Is everyone here talking about the red hilight? The text log / UI transparency? Because I'm not seeing how the font choice affects what is being described here.

  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    No - the original post is about the hover-text that shows up in the main game screen. Im SoD (and presumably patched for the other game) we get a shaded box to hold the text, guaranteeing a strong contrast for legibility. This is a net plus for gameplay, but I fear will also distract from immersion - hence the request for a UI option to disable it. I fully understand that it is probably too late in the dev cycle to make something like that optional, but there is no harm in asking ;) I would not recommend outright reverting either, as I suspect it will be more popular than not - I just want to have my cake and eat it too :)

  • CerevantCerevant Member Posts: 2,314
    Ok - I wanted to make sure I understood the issue. Part of the concept was actually to improve immersion - to reduce the number of times you get yanked out of the game screen to interact with the UI, especially in cases where CHARNAME doesn't have a response.

    Thanks for the feedback and we'll give it some thought.

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,285
    edited February 2016
    In all honesty, I think they saw an issue where there was none. In 20 years of bg I have never been unable to read the hover text. Given that some are massive pieces of text I think a greyed background will look rather ugly.
    Pretty certain every new feature they put in is toggleable. Even the font can be swapped in the end.

  • UlbUlb Member Posts: 295
    edited February 2016
    I agree with GreenWarlock.

    I, too, felt the new hover-text underlay was somewhat immersion breaking and felt out of place in BG.

    Would be nice if it could be turned into an optional feature as it is the only thing so far I don't like about SoD.

  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    @lroumen I can imagine it would be an issue when designing new areas, to make sure that the background art yields clear text when hover-text arises. That can be a significant constraint when creating a lot of new areas, like for SoD, and my impression is that the new game may be a step up in terms of text content, so the risk of difficult to read text rises. This may well have been the result of play-testing with the new content, so I am more than happy to give the team the benefit of the doubt on whether this is useful. I just want my option to risk readability on my own terms ;)

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,285
    True, but I get the impression that SOD is darker, so the traditional white hover text should even be more readable.... should it not?

  • LifatLifat Member Posts: 353
    There is a lot of guess work involved here. All we can really say is that an option to toggle it can hurt noone (except the devs time).

  • DanathionDanathion Member Posts: 173
    Like @Cerevant I'm having difficulty following the argument; its the shaded background behind the floating-hover-text that's immersion breaking, *not* the floating-hover-text itself??

    The red highlight on red text makes the dialogue options harder to read though. That may be worth thinking about. :)

  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    @Danathion correct, without the shading the text appears *in* the game world, with the shading the text appears *on* *top* *of* the game world, and for those of us who perceive it that way (certainly not all) that subtle cue is enough to break immersion, which can be a fragile thing.

    Personally, I am neutral on the red-highlight on the conversation choice, although if find red a particularly awkward color for text, and the red background is emphasizing that choice. A dark-grey background for the highlight might be better (for me).

  • dibdib Member Posts: 384
    edited February 2016
    I thought the background thing was a nice addition and I really can't see where these "immersion breaking" comments are coming from. I've never seen any text as part of the "game world" at all. How often do you see floating letters above peoples' heads irl (when not high as a kite)?

    DanathionKilivitzAstroBryGuy
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,613
    Well, maybe the vanilla forums read this discussion and decided to take away posts background colour for moderators and administrators ;)

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,213
    edited February 2016
    It's also not new at least when it comes to ie games. From what I recall Iwd2 actually uses it to a degree as well. :)

    KilivitzAstroBryGuyJuliusBorisov
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,415
    elminster said:

    It's also not new at least when it comes to ie games. From what I recall Iwd2 actually uses it to a degree as well. :)

    Yep.

    image

    elminsterJuliusBorisovGrammarsalad
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,213
    edited February 2016
    I think when enemies chant spells it also shows the text for that in iwd2 above their heads as well.

    I happen to like it because its useful especially on white backgrounds (so like IWD2). When working on my Eve of War mod I reused one of Rasaads bgee areas. Without that you couldn't see all of the gory descriptions (white snow with white text) unless you clicked on the info text with fog of war overtop of it. :)

    (To be clear i understand that this thread is about having this as optional, and I myself wasn't involved in proposing this. I just happen to like it)

    JuliusBorisov
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 848
    I don't think I've even noticed this new feature in the SoD stream. Can anyone show me a screenshot?

    Ironically, the only feature that I noticed right away was how the feedback circles "adapt" to terrain heights in SoD and yet I haven't seen a single soul even comment about it.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,613

    I don't think I've even noticed this new feature in the SoD stream. Can anyone show me a screenshot?

    image

    SirBatince
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 848
    Thanks! I must be going blind.

    Is this seriously annoying people? It's even in IWD yeah

  • Mikey205Mikey205 Member Posts: 302
    Ye its not really a biggie for me. The new dialogue and inventory font on the otherhand I do not like one bit. Please can we have a font that looks more classic.

    Grammarsalad
  • cmk24cmk24 Member Posts: 605
    Mikey205 said:

    Ye its not really a biggie for me. The new dialogue and inventory font on the otherhand I do not like one bit. Please can we have a font that looks more classic.

    With the new way they are doing fonts you will be able to use *any* system font you want. If you don't like it you will be able to change it easily.

    Grammarsalad
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,285
    edited February 2016


    Ironically, the only feature that I noticed right away was how the feedback circles "adapt" to terrain heights in SoD and yet I haven't seen a single soul even comment about it.

    do you have a screen for this? I didn't watch the whole stream (mostly listened because i want to stay blind to some visual aspects).

    The hover part I saw and honestly, I was never able to finish iwd2 in part because I just could not get into it (and also did not get the hype on 3e).

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,557
    cmk24 said:

    Mikey205 said:

    Ye its not really a biggie for me. The new dialogue and inventory font on the otherhand I do not like one bit. Please can we have a font that looks more classic.

    With the new way they are doing fonts you will be able to use *any* system font you want. If you don't like it you will be able to change it easily.
    Yes, but what about that horrible red highlighted text? Any word on whether that is optional?

    jobby
  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 637
    edited March 2016
    The image of the effect (floating text background) in IWD2 looks nice and if it is similar to that in the new beta patches for BG than that would be neat. I've found it annoyingly hard to read the floating text sometimes because the background can often be very busy/noisy looking making it hard to focus! (Note I wear prescription glasses all the time, I have terrible eye sight)

    Perhaps an Opacity slider? So we can make it more/less prominent in increments of 0-100 to suit everyones tastes and eyesight condition? 100 being opaque and 0 being completely invisible/transparent.

    GreenWarlockXKal
  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 267
    One thing to note, the dev stream today had an issue with the brightness and contrast levels for the game being rendered to dark though the capture card. (as pointed out by Beamdog staff in chat)
    As it was way way darker then what the actually game will be it may already be subdued and immersive compared to the screen shoot or the stream we saw.

    That being said, im not opposed to an Opacity slider or a way to disable it. Just thought it would be worth telling the facts :)

  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 637
    I added this request on to the bug tracker for version 2.0 of the game here:
    http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/20454
    http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/20456

    JuliusBorisovjobby
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,613
    edited March 2016
    It looks like the problem raised in the OP can be quite serious.

    I see the developers have moved two issues @Franpa reported to "features" from "bugs".

    Please, could you reconsider it, @Dee / @elminster , because right now it may lead to an odd situation, when one background is over another background and so forth, actually not letting you see game NPCs.

    image

    Also, the famous intro to BG2 looks broken when the words of Irenicus cover the main character's body:

    image

    image

    BelgarathMTHGreenWarlock
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    Thanks @bengoshi a picture is worth way more than 1000 words in this case :)

    JuliusBorisov
  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 637
    edited March 2016
    The Irenicus floating text could be shifted to appear above your character or something? And only one of my reports got shifted to a Feature Request and I requested it to be changed to a Feature Request (I deleted the request once it had been moved so as to keep the report tidy).

    I made a Redmine report for the Irenicus text.

    JuliusBorisov
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