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Finding Uses For "Non-Optimal" Kits

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Comments

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    Grum said:

    @Raduziel Druids don't get DUHM.

    But a good bhaalspawn gets in until the underdark
    Exactly.

    And just tested: it does stacks.

    Here comes a new solo run.

    Grum
  • pedrorqpedrorq Member Posts: 54

    @pedrorq: Add one more druid level and you get an extra casting of Summon Spirit Animal.

    So dual at 12? Sounds like a plan. What about proficiencies? Has IWD:EE fixed the "bug" of continuing on the dual class the proficiences of the original class?

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,063
    @pedrorq: At level 11. I saw 10/11 in your post, which I thought meant 10 druid levels and 11 fighter levels. If you dual at level 11, you need 12 fighter levels to get your old class back, not 10.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    edited February 2016
    It really pays off to get druid as second class, not first. This because:

    You get more Hit Points (d10 instead of d8 and the extra bonus from Constitution)

    You get more APR (3/2 at lv 7 and 2/1 at lv 13), despite Specialization

    You're able to achieve Grandmastery in any weapon you want (make sure it is something a Druid also uses!) and can apply three dots in Two Weapon Style - and you'll receive one proficiency slot every 3 levels

    Spellcasters keep scaling power, Fighters doesn't. It is something good to keep in mind when planning your run.

    Post edited by Raduziel on
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    @Raduziel You don't get extra APR at level 9 (unless it's different from BG).

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,292
    Grum said:

    So, who here has found uses for non-optimal kits?
    Human Cavalier
    Human Inquisitor
    Human Undead Hunter
    Human Skald
    Human Cleric of Tyr
    Human Swashbuckler->Fighter (longbows)

    dewd that's like a 91.6% optimal party.

    Philhelm
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    @FinneousPJ You're right. Just checked the Player's Handbook and edited with the correct info. :smile:

    Thanks!

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,292
    skald + undead hunter + cavalier is liek da bomb and the rest is also some pretty smart picks

    i remember somebody saying this a while ago
    bob_veng said:

    technically if you wanted to minmax for convenience (how easiest to beat the game, for example in a speedrun) you'd probably have both in the party. /undead hunter and cavalier/

    oh wait that was me

    Skatan
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,099
    bob_veng said:

    Grum said:

    So, who here has found uses for non-optimal kits?
    Human Cavalier
    Human Inquisitor
    Human Undead Hunter
    Human Skald
    Human Cleric of Tyr
    Human Swashbuckler->Fighter (longbows)

    dewd that's like a 91.6% optimal party.
    Read the entire post. It is about an inquisitor in icewind dale, a game which is much more into throwing tanks at you rather than spellcasters

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,292
    i did read it but i didn't understand that it's just about the inquisitor, sorry. i thout that the whole party was understood tobe sub-optimal...will be more careful itf

    Grum
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    edited February 2016
    The reason to dual /out/ of druid is the crazy druid XP curve. Dual at 11 or 12 to get the most levels/spells for your xp, before fighters crunch their way through the levels, eventually picking up a nice bonus for essentially a single fighter level.

    The reason to dual /into/ druid is mostly the same - the crazy xp curve should minimize down-time after taking 9 fighter levels for grand master, and max HP.

    Edited to add: druid is the one class to do not want to reach 12/13 as a fighter before dualing into though - the XP curve to reactivate your fighter levels is a killer at that point!

    semiticgod
  • dok0zhivagodok0zhivago Member Posts: 82
    I am new to these forums, although I am not a new player :smile:
    But I am under the impression that there is no love for Jester on this forum.
    They a different kind of Bard, but it is a fun class, and perfectly playable.

    I also like Beastmaster. Good scout, decent melee & ranged + summoning options later on, and nice dual class option
    Imo, any kit is superior to vanilla ranger. I personally consider Stalker as a pure default Ranger and Archer & Beastmaster as kits .

    Grum
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    Jester is a kit based in "save or suck". He can be great BUT if the opponent rolls a succeeded save throw (with bonus) nothing happens and he becomes a dead weight during the fight.

    Grum
  • dok0zhivagodok0zhivago Member Posts: 82
    Raduziel said:

    Jester is a kit based in "save or suck". He can be great BUT if the opponent rolls a succeeded save throw (with bonus) nothing happens and he becomes a dead weight during the fight.

    Well, in that case I can always use him as a secondary spellcaster.
    But it is an unpredictable class that can add a special touch to any battle (similar to wild mage in a certain way). Bards and Skalds are more straightforward classes and you know what you are getting with their songs, but Jester ads that touch of chaos to the battle field.
    Well his primary role is to make mayhem and confusion.
    I like them. As bards go, I don't find them superior to vanilla bards or skalds, but they are fun to play.

    JLeesemiticgod
  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 674
    edited February 2016
    @butteredsoul, I question the dwarven bounty hunter as being sub-optimal (agree with the rest though!). I would posit that the dwarf is in fact in the running for best bounty hunter race, even with the dex handicap.

  • butteredsoulbutteredsoul Member Posts: 164
    Interesting, @Aerakar . What would you suggest, then, for the thief spot in the sub-optimal kit party?

  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 674
    Or Dwarven Assassin perhaps, since Dwarves are worse than Gnomes with ranged weapons from the dexterity hit.

  • butteredsoulbutteredsoul Member Posts: 164
    But isn't Assassin an optimal kit?

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,058
    edited March 2016
    pedrorq said:

    Does a Shapeshifter (13)->fighter really get fighter thac0 and apr?

    What should its weapon proficiences be? scimitar + sword & shield style? Or would the werewolf get bonuses from 2 scimitars in TWF?

    Werewolf gets bonuses for Single Weapon Style I'm pretty sure.

    Overall I don't think there's much synergy here.
    Bigfish said:


    No, it was mostly that idea that triggered my comment: there's no stat-increasing tomes in IWD, the starting stats for your party, that's what your stuck with.

    It's not like you can't fudge the numbers, or the more reasonable explanation being someone just forgot/didn't realize there are no stat increases in IWD.
    Actually there's a number of potions that give permanent stat increases:

    Potion of Action Transference: +1 Charisma, -1 Dexterity. Can be dropped by the skeleton Therik in one of the crypts of the Vale of Shadows.
    *Potion of Magical Resistance: +5% Magic Resistance. Can be found in the statue of Sseth on the first floor of Dragon's Eye.
    *Potion of Strength Transference: +1 Dexterity, -1 Strength. Can be found in a chest next to the "Shadowed Elven Priest" on the third floor of the Severed Hand's cleric tower.
    *Potion of Life Transference: +1 Strength, -1 Constitution. Can be dropped by the frost salamander chieftain Kerish.
    *Potion of Holy Transference: +2 Wisdom, -1 Dexterity. Two locations: Can be found in Malavon's throne, and is found in the bag of holding possessed by the Banite in Trials of the Luremaster.

    There's also a tome of charisma +1 in ToL iirc

    Grumbob_veng
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