Jaheira
PK2748
Member Posts: 381
What's the best, non lethal method of ditching the despised Khalid and keeping Jaheira? I have no use for him at all but want a simple explanation for how he returns in SOD so I'm trying to avoid my usual basilisk visitation
0
Comments
Anyways, just send him into a building before you remove him from the party so that he can't reach your PC to talk to you.. And don't enter that building again.
edit:
To be honest, I think that Jaheira is by far the weaker of that pair, really... Branwen, Viconia or Yeslick are far better options for healing. Only reason to take her is for roleplaying purposes or if you really think its cheesey to split the pair and want Khalid.
I agree BG1 Jaheira is underwhelming but I like Druid weapons better than I like Cleric weapons. I don't want to worry about artificially keeping my reputation down for Viconia. Yeslick is awesome but I'm in chapter one
BTW try to get to Yeslick with as little XP as you can. If you recruit him at level 2F/3C you can give him two-weapon style. Dual hammer wielding Yeslick is a beast. OR just mod it.
As for Yeslick, I usually try and get him and Quayle at their lowest level, I think they are two of the absolute best NPCs. As what I hope will be my ultimate full Gate saga run though I'm not sure if either has a place in my storyline.
As for the OP: just let him rot inside any building.
Isolate him, remove from party and done. He won't be able to go talk to you, so the script to remove Jaheira won't fire.
He's a lame Fighter but do become acceptable if you give him the ogre gauntlets. But I prefer to offer them to Ajantis or Yeslick (in a good party) or Kagain or Viconia (in an evil party). Or even to Tiax for some nice backstabs.
In other terms: Irenicus did us a favor.
IMHO he and Jaheira can rot in Friendly Arm Inn.
Khalid is great because he's versatile. Depending on equipment and how you allocate his proficiency points, he can either be a decent Archer or frontliner. Even more so now that he can equip a shield and a bow without any hassle.
And his stats are all around great too. They're only subpar if you're the type of player who thinks good equals 18s across the board.
I'm not saying everyone should like Khalid. If you think single-classed Fighters are boring I agree that you should take someone else.
I'm just opposing the seemingly prevalent idea that "Khalid sucks". He doesn't. He's arguably one of the most useful NPCs in BG1. Maybe more than Jaheira, who suffers from the Druid's narrow weapon options and lack of useful Druid spells at lower levels.
1) Exceptional Strenght. And he doesn't get it. Not even close.
2) Dual-Class. And he doesn't get it
3) Grandmastery. It's possible, but his starting pips doesn't help (why in the nine hells one pipe in axe???)
4) Bonus HP due to Con. He gets it, but not its maximum to compensate the above (like Kagain does)
5) Be a powerhorse tank with low AC. Here was his time to shine but the damn "warrior" just run away from battle everytime things heat up.
Let's just be honest: let's pretend we're playing PnP AD&D and the Dungeon Master hands you Khalid's character sheet. Would you be happy about it?
Or your experience was limited by games filled with ridiculously munchkin characters (which is fine, by the way - I'm in no way positing there's a right or wrong way to play the game)
I believe you're just confirming my prior statement: you can only say Khalid has bad stats if your definition of a good character is max every relevant stat.
I'm playing AD&D since 2000 (the others players in my group plays since 1990).
Had some character with lame stats, never was able to roll a sheet that would allow me a Paladin or a Druid, rarely was able to Dual-Class, had a Wizard whose better stat was 16 Int, but I never - ever - played a Fighter with less then 18 Strength.
It's not about having all max. My favorite NPC is Tiax, my second one is Quayle, and neither of them is maxed. But they can get the job done.
Khalid misses a lot of attacks and hits like a feather. Minsc, not being a Fighter, is better Fighter then him. The same goes for Dorn and Ajantis. Hell, even Jaheira brings more to the table.
"Hits like a feather" is a purely subjective argument. As opposed to whom? You mentioned Ajantis (STR 17), Minsc (STR 18/93) and Dorn (STR 19). Compared to them, of course he's going to hit less often and cause less damage per hit.
But the thing is, THAC0 and damage output is not everything a Fighter's about. His DEX and CON are higher than any of the NPCs you've mentioned, giving him an edge on AC and HPs.
Sure, you can give the others the Gauntlets of Dexterity and make them harder to hit. Just like you can also give the Gauntlets of Ogre Strength to Khalid. Or you can put him further back with the Bracers of Archery and Long Bow mastery at Level 6, making him the 2nd best archer in the game. And he will still be able to effectively hit things with a Long Sword. If you think that's because of her Druid spells, that's fine. But if we're comparing them as Fighters, Jaheira has lower STR and DEX, and the same CON, except she levels up slower and has less hitpoints due to being multi-classed. She's also unable to go past specialization and a much more limited weapon selection. So what exactly does she bring to table other than having a different voice, portrait and gender?
I'll say it again: it's okay not to like Khalid. Maybe you think his voice is annoying, maybe you don't like his face, maybe you think that anything less than 18 is not an acceptable STR score, and you're not incorrect in any of that.
But there's no point in trying to validate one's opinions putting them forth as facts. But @Raduziel please don't take what I've said personally - I have a pet peeve with these "Khalid sucks" arguments because they're so prevalent and as you can see, I don't think they hold up when you look at it objectively.
I'm actually enjoying this conversation, not taking anything personal at all.
Two points:
1) Hit's like a feather because his STR sucks. Every other Warrior has better Strength. That's my comparison, his damage bonus due to strength is piddling, his bonus to hit is awful (what leads to him missing most then any other warrior NPC at the same level).
2) Yup, Jaheira brings more 'cause of the druid spells.
IMHO a good fighter isn't the one who takes more damage, but the one who hits with precision and strength, actually sweeping all the enemies in the battlefield before they can deliver any casualties to the party.
Heck, even Montaron brings more to the table, cause he got the shorty's save throw bonus, backstab and thief skills.
Yeslick has the same Strength and Constitution then Khalid, but is able to cast priest spells and also have shorty's save throw bonus.
The only true advantage of Khalid is that he'll level up faster. But he'll just be a weak and coward "high" level fighter.
And I'll repeat: never, during the entire saga, I had a morale break with anyone but Khalid.
We should shake Irenicus hands.
I fall into childish giggles every time I hear it.
Of course Khalid does have worse saves, but... this is BG1. Not to say saves aren't good to save, but if you're relying on saves, you've already lost.
None of which is to say that Khalid is the best NPC in the game or anything, but as someone who's run with him a number of times, I have never found him to be anything short of capable.
(And, for what it's worth, I've had Khalid morale break exactly once, ever. Which happens to be the same number of times I've had Kagain break, and I run Kagain a lot less often. Khalid's cowardice is greatly exaggerated.)
Now, at this point you're probably saying that +1 is better than nothing, or pointing towards people like Kivan (+1/+3) or Minsc (+2/+5). And you're not wrong, but you also have to take into account the benefits of higher mastery. Grabbing that third pip in long swords gives Khalid +2/+1 over anyone who stops at Specialization (i.e. everyone but Shar-Teel or Kagain). Dropping the fourth pip brings that up to +2/+2. Once you add Gauntlets of Ogre Power, Khalid actually has higher to-hit and damage potential than most other warriors in the game because of that mastery edge. The only NPC who gets potentially better use out of the Gauntlets is Yeslick, who needs them for Draw Upon Holy Might to get him anywhere significant in terms of Strength, but Yeslick comes at the end of chapter 4, while you can grab Khalid first thing in chapter 1.