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Spears

Almost everytime i start a new game, i wonder to myself why spears?
I mean.. does it mean to play only as for RP?

pls ENLIGHTEN ME why should i go for spears/ and which class should use it?
(in my imagination spears are for druids) but meh.

Yamcha

Comments

  • Lehigh96Lehigh96 Member Posts: 23
    The problem with spears is that they are considered two handed weapons but only do 1D6 damage as opposed to two handed swords and halberds that do 1D10. In addition, there really aren't any good spears in the game save the unicorn spear and the impaler. Skip spears and go with a halberd for your tank. Dragon Bane +3 (+6 vs dragons) and the uber cool Wave Halberd +4 (slays fire elementals, efreeti, & salamanders).

  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 433
    edited March 2016
    @Lehigh96 those items you mentioned come from BG2, but this thread is for BGEE...

    Spears are useful because they are 2 handed weapons (giving extended range in melee) that do piercing damage, require less strength to use than 2-handed swords or halberds, and are considerably lighter. So they are fine for anyone who can use them, especially bards and druids where they have weapon limitations or are likely to have a lower STR than a typical fighter.

    Standard BG was very poor for the choice of magical spears, but this has been addressed a bit better in BGEE. You can find the best spear in one of the later chapters.

  • Lehigh96Lehigh96 Member Posts: 23
    Dharius said:

    @Lehigh96 those items you mentioned come from BG2, but this thread is for BGEE...

    Spears are useful because they are 2 handed weapons (giving extended range in melee) that do piercing damage, require less strength to use than 2-handed swords or halberds, and are considerably lighter. So they are fine for anyone who can use them, especially bards and druids where they have weapon limitations or are likely to have a lower STR than a typical fighter.

    Standard BG was very poor for the choice of magical spears, but this has been addressed a bit better in BGEE. You can find the best spear in one of the later chapters.

    I'm aware that this is a BGEE section and that those weapons are found in BG2. Are you claiming that you don't use forethought about a full play through when you create a character? I find that hard to believe. And if you want to give a bard or Druid a spear, that's fine, but personally, I rarely send my those classes into melee unless it is absolutely necessary.

  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 433
    edited March 2016
    I don't always like to use forethought in BG, sometimes I like to play it as it comes. It's probably my age. BTW how do you know the original poster is going to play BG2? :)

    Nothing wrong with using a bard and druid in melee, they'll have to do it sometimes, and they'll need a proficiency in some sort of melee weapon most likely, so why not spears? And one of my fighters doesn't have a strength high enough to use other 2 handed weapons, which is why I brought it up. We obviously play the game a bit differently, but hey :)

  • ShandoShando Member Posts: 147
    its a shame, when adding the monk class they should have bound him with spears.

    I see spears as skill art weapon, such as katana/ fail, etc.
    ppl who use the spear, should b light and nearly "dancing" with it.
    they should have made a better scale for using spears, with "spear master" can do other great moves.

  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 433
    Monks can't use 2H weapons in BG (or indeed in BG2) which is a bit of a design flaw, and doesn't really fit with the traditional image of martial arts type monks.

  • ShandoShando Member Posts: 147
    yeah!

    the basic "feeling" a monk gives (I like the idea of monks in diablo 3) that hes
    a warrior with touch of spirit. I mean - he can use support buff, and still fight.
    in diablo the main wep for monks are staff or 2h dual gloves.

    u get the feeling that the monk idea of bg wasn't fully got his POTENTIAL.

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,409
    edited March 2016
    Spears are two handed piercing weapons, two handed is useful as the hit range is greater than, say, a dagger AND with two handed weapon style you can gain speed bonuses and more criticals, plus +1 damage bonus:monumental for a non fighter druid who can not gain damage boosts from specialisation normally.

    So you can stab with the spear and kite an enemy, running around in circles before it gets close enough to hit you. Also piercing attack is very effective against leather armor, you get +2 to hit when you attack a hobgoblin, or bandit, that wears leather. Both are very prevelant enemies in bg1 environment. And at low levels you need every to hit bonus you can get. Thus, this is a very solid bonus for bg1.

    With spear and two handed weapon style, you get a relatively fast, reach weapon with +1 damage boost from style, that also gets +2 to hit against most common enemies of bg1 due to piercing vs leather. Not bad, IMHO.

    Though I agree base damage should have been 1-8. 1-6 is a bit weak. With style bonus it is 2-7, equavalent of a mace.

    You can create an exceptional str dwarven kensai with spear and two handed weapon style specialisation for the lulz. A bearded, small fella running around with a spear longer than himself gripped in his hands, poking and chunking enemies right and left. It is like popping balloons with a big needle.

    DhariusShandoJLeeGirewan
  • ShandoShando Member Posts: 147
    "You can create an exceptional str dwarven kensai with spear and two handed weapon style specialisation for the lulz. A bearded, small fella running around with a spear longer than himself gripped in his hands, poking and chunking enemies right and left. It is like popping balloons with a big needle."


    haha amzing!

    but the purpose for RP - which kind of warrior will pick spear AS main?

  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 433
    edited March 2016
    As @lunar said, kensais are a good option, and fit well with the idea of an Eastern warrior monk.

    I forgot about weapons speed, that's a very good point (sorry)

  • ShandoShando Member Posts: 147
    But a sword saint isn't a monk :]
    hes more a wu dang fighter.

  • wubblewubble Member Posts: 3,156
    lunar said:



    So you can stab with the spear and kite an enemy, running around in circles before it gets close enough to hit you.

    That tactic works in real life too, in my reenactment group we have spear people and shield people. The only way to win with a spear out of line formation is to run away and stab at their legs while they try to get past your spear.

    Shando
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,308
    In RP terms, the spear is a classic hunting weapon... unfortunately the game mechanics don't have any representation of "taking the charge" or using a larger opponent's weight against them.

    There are mods which extend the utility. Item Revisions adds throwing spears, and I think there are other mods which allow them to be combined with shields.

    Don't forget the classic knight too. Anomen has redundant points in spear to represent his cavalry background.

    Shando
  • ShandoShando Member Posts: 147
    So any logic reason to use them? or just let it go :)

    alas, if iam not powergaming.

  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,308
    Shando said:

    So any logic reason to use them? or just let it go :)

    alas, if iam not powergaming.

    RP has always been a good enough reason for me to do anything... Not churning out massive DPS with uber weapons just creates an extra challenge. I've never actually built a spear user, but I've done plenty of thee other non-optimal stuff like focussing on shields, generally ignoring dual-wielding and using using longbows throughout bg2. There's plenty of scope for a spear wielding character concept, so if one captures your eye then go for it! Find a way to use smart tactics or strategy to work around any limitations.

  • YamchaYamcha Member Posts: 481
    abacus said:

    Item Revisions adds throwing spears, and I think there are other mods which allow them to be combined with shields.

    Item Revision also fixes the damage to 1d8

  • KaigenKaigen Member Posts: 1,567
    I built a Kensai spear-wielder that dual-classed into Druid once. It was fun, though I really shouldn't have waited until Kensai 13 to dual-class.

    The thing about BGEE is that there aren't many uber-weapons like you find in BG2EE, so the difference between the best weapons and the okay weapons is not very large. So while there isn't a "logical" reason to pick a spear over another weapon type, unless you have designs on the better spears in BG2EE, you don't lose much by choosing to go with the less optimal option.

    The funny thing is that there are enough really good scimitars and quarterstaves in the game that are better than the spears available (including the staff-spear, which is just adding insult to injury), that you wouldn't have a mechanical justification to pick up spears even if you were running an entire party using Druid weapons.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    Yamcha said:

    abacus said:

    Item Revisions adds throwing spears, and I think there are other mods which allow them to be combined with shields

    Item Revision also fixes the damage to 1d8
    I also increased spear melee range to 3. Not a big deal, but it means it can attack a Fireshield from safe distance.

  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 817
    The only reason you need is that the non-stop thrusting attack animation looks cool.

    OlvynChuru
  • ShandoShando Member Posts: 147
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,867
    edited March 2016
    The problem with spears though is that Quarterstaves are completely superior. They're twice as fast to swing, same range, same damage (but blunt instead of Piercing), and stupidly common in both games with plenty of nice varieties (only longswords have better variety).

    Keep in mind...except vs Splint Mail, which is a fairly rare armor type, blunt has the best damage type for hitting enemies with, especially once they get up into higher armor amounts. It's also the only damage type that nothing is immune to and several things are weak vs or required for.

    HeindrichPhilhelmBelgarathMTH
  • ShandoShando Member Posts: 147
    beside lonely masters, i dont see a reason why a warrior should master staff.

    its a bit problem with wep, and dats my point.

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,626
    edited March 2016
    I think the RP appeal of a spear is pretty simple: it's a long-range weapon, so it lets you hit someone before they get the chance to hit you. It doesn't need a specific character concept; I can easily picture most warriors wielding a spear, including fighters, rangers, paladins and maybe barbarians (if you don't like the idea of a paladin wielding a spear then take it up with Bjornin in the Jovial Juggler). Of course, spears in Baldur's Gate are overshadowed by other weapon types in terms of damage, but that's arbitrary. You could just as easily have spears do 1d8 or 1d10 damage and it wouldn't make any less sense.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    edited March 2016
    1) Spears do benefit from two handed weapon style

    2) Piercing damage type (most armor are more resistant vs. slashing)

    3) Extended range

    4) Speed of 6 (vs. 10 from Two Handed Sword and 9 from Halberd)

    5) You won't need to share it with the main warriors of the group

    6) Magical spears are easier to find than scimitars (making a better choice for druids)

    If you're using BG1 NPC Project I strongly recommend giving Kivan some pips in Spears :smile:

    The downside:

    1) Spears does 1d6 damage (should be doing 1d8), the same as quarterstaff

    2) Quarterstaff is faster (4)

    3) Quarterstaff does blunt damage (good vs. most armors and enemies resistances)

    4) There are tons of magical quarterstaff both in BG1 and mostly in BG2.

    Neither of them serves a Fighter (or any warrior) IMHO. But in my run I usually gives quarterstaff for thieves and spear for druids.

  • PhilhelmPhilhelm Member Posts: 473
    edited March 2016
    I've always like the Dragoon class from the Final Fantasy series, and once created a Fighter that used spears. Granted, I didn't go through the series with that character because of general character creation restarting.

    With a high enough strength and bonus damage from mastery, the lower D6 damage of a spear won't be all that noticeable due to the static base damage bonus. You'd only be losing out on a few points of damage on average. The only problem is that spears don't get as much love as some of the other, more popular weapon types.

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,409
    Anybody played the Tactics mod's Poison avatars encounter and the magical throwing spear they drop? The aptly named and glorious Bloodbane. Now THAT is a weapon to put all Celestial furies or Crom faeyr's to shame. I had to edit and nerf it down in my own game for balance reasons.

  • ShandoShando Member Posts: 147
    Spears are more related to magic, and less to Physical dmg.

    ITs a DPS wep, and when a fighter use idk... Spear of fire bla bla bla, he tame the magic and cast fire.
    mostly, he pay a price.
    but u get it..

  • ChnapyChnapy Member Posts: 360
    To each his own I guess. In my mind spears are more related to stabbing people from a distance.

    Gotta agree that their rarity and d6 damage just let Qstaves straight up outshine them. A shame that it was not that unicorn spear that got added to bg1.

    Shando
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    If you play BG1 NPC Project there's a nice spear in Jaheira's quest.

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