@Altair: There's nothing stopping you from Dualing that Fighter at level 21, and still get that THAC0. You'll get there AND get your Thief to level 22 long before the Fighter/Thief attains that level.
You are right, but I doubt many players are patient enough to stay a pure fighter for 21 levels, then to become just a thief for another 22 levels... if you can only start to enjoy the best of your character during ToB (or at the end of SoA), what's the point really? Plus I would really miss all the Fighter ULA...
True, the HLA abilities highly favor Multiclassing in the way they are set up.
Dualclasses need 3m PER CLASS to gain those perks, whereas Multiclasses need 3m IN TOTAL (1.5m per class when Dualclassing, 1m per class when Tripleclassing).
I can see why they did it like this. Multiclass characters get roughly the same amount of HLAs as Singleclass this way, but if they did it for Dualclasses, imagine leveling that Fighter to 20 or 21, and then level up a Rogue, getting a HLA at even the low levels!
If not being able to hit level 10 is "getting the shaft" then that expression does not carry the weight it once did (I'm an old man so such things may have changed). I would understand if it was a case where Paladins got access to DUHM or something but that isn't the case (at level 10 a paladin would have one extra level 1 spell and a ranger would get one level 2 spell). Aren't we basically talking about the difference between 1 Thac0 and 3 health compared to a fighter? (who wouldn't hit that cap until the very end anyways).
It's not so much about what they gain, but more that they actually do gain anything.
Fighters, Clerics, Druids, Shamans, Sorcerers, Mages, Bards and Thieves all get to look forward to leveling twice. Paladins and Rangers only get a single levelup during the entire expansion.
Character progress can be a very enjoyable element for certain players, myself included. Having placed the cap so that all but 2 classes can look forward to leveling twice just seems odd...
So I have been looking at the possible dual class combinations with the speculations about the XP cap with SoD(which many believe will be around 500K and possibly as high as 600K) and found some pretty interesting results.
Fighter(9) ---> Thief (470K XP)
Very easily doable if the XP cap is approximately 500K as this combination only requires 470K in order to complete, as it takes 250K for the fighter class and 220K to get to level 10 thief.
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Hi, Fighter(9) -> Thief(10) only requires 410K XP, Lv10 Thief will need 160K
It's not so much about what they gain, but more that they actually do gain anything.
Fighters, Clerics, Druids, Shamans, Sorcerers, Mages, Bards and Thieves all get to look forward to leveling twice. Paladins and Rangers only get a single levelup during the entire expansion.
Character progress can be a very enjoyable element for certain players, myself included. Having placed the cap so that all but 2 classes can look forward to leveling twice just seems odd...
@Thels There's the problem of BG2. If characters were allowed to gain more XP, then they would start stronger than originally intended.
@gattberserk: Even better. Fighter 9 costs 250k XP. Thief 11 costs 220k XP. Thus, you could get Fighter 9 -> Thief 11.
@Abel: That's rather arbitrary. I could understand your point of view if ALL classes only got 1 additional level, or no levels at all, but all other classes gain 2 additional levels, and as Elminster pointed out, those Paladin and Ranger improvements aren't world shattering.
Yes, it would place all classes 100k XP closer to their next level, but that's also a rather arbitrary distance...
My fav thing is to do the weasel super hard then steam rool run in BG2. I go to The temple and chat with the Priests of Helm who say I am weak and need mor experience then barely scrap through to the 10/20 k spawn spot of the nasties in the maze. Then I level to around 14-21 to fighter than dual to thief and get above the fighter leaving with a use any item trait - after that the whole game is easy and I slap liches and dragons like they are silly. Oh and to make it eeven harder I like to do it without leveling the thief at all until he is over the fighter levels so I can put the skills over two stars.
This is kinda like scoring a Iraq tank kill with a dragon instead of calling for arti or air cuz you are stupid like that and think you can frag them before they van pez you with machine guns.
Your news is already old @bengoshi! Will you be there on time the 31st?!
I actually just killed Sarevok with my Cavalier.. Though now I'm tempted to do so with a Fighter-->Mage as well though I'm not sure I can get to and defeat Sarevok in only 3 days... :P
Your news is already old @bengoshi! Will you be there on time the 31st?!
Well, I'm trying my best to finish work, and that is very hard to accompish before the last working day ends. I'll try my best but no guarantees. It's quite ironic that the project I've been following so closely is ready to go live and I am not actually ready for it - because I don't know when I will have time to actually play SoD...
Your news is already old @bengoshi! Will you be there on time the 31st?!
Well, I'm trying my best to finish work, and that is very hard to accompish before the last working day ends. I'll try my best but no guarantees. It's quite ironic that the project I've been following so closely is ready to go live and I am not actually ready for it - because I don't know when I will have time to actually play SoD...
Focus on your work and don't stress about forum stuff
Your news is already old @bengoshi! Will you be there on time the 31st?!
Well, I'm trying my best to finish work, and that is very hard to accompish before the last working day ends. I'll try my best but no guarantees. It's quite ironic that the project I've been following so closely is ready to go live and I am not actually ready for it - because I don't know when I will have time to actually play SoD...
It's not so much about what they gain, but more that they actually do gain anything.
Fighters, Clerics, Druids, Shamans, Sorcerers, Mages, Bards and Thieves all get to look forward to leveling twice. Paladins and Rangers only get a single levelup during the entire expansion.
Character progress can be a very enjoyable element for certain players, myself included. Having placed the cap so that all but 2 classes can look forward to leveling twice just seems odd...
You are making the assumption that the expansion will have enough xp for an average player to reach the cap.
I suspect that won't be possible without extensive farming. And if you are the sort of person who enjoys xp farming, the chances are you are going to be the sort of person who uses an xp cap remover.
It's not so much about what they gain, but more that they actually do gain anything.
Fighters, Clerics, Druids, Shamans, Sorcerers, Mages, Bards and Thieves all get to look forward to leveling twice. Paladins and Rangers only get a single levelup during the entire expansion.
Character progress can be a very enjoyable element for certain players, myself included. Having placed the cap so that all but 2 classes can look forward to leveling twice just seems odd...
You are making the assumption that the expansion will have enough xp for an average player to reach the cap.
I suspect that won't be possible without extensive farming. And if you are the sort of person who enjoys xp farming, the chances are you are going to be the sort of person who uses an xp cap remover.
Considering there is supposed to be 23+ hours of gameplay in the expansion, I'm sure there will be more than enough XP to reach the cap without farming. You probably also think that you can't reach 161K in BG1 without farming. Also, farming XP and using an XP cap remover aren't related in the slightest and that kind of assumption is asinine.
@Fardragon: I gotta agree with Elendar on this. I'm one of those players that methodically visits every nook and cranny of the game, and in BG1, I tend to reach the cap only halfway into the game (using a 6 man party).
Yet, I don't see a need to install an XP cap remover, being quite fine with the caps placed by ToTSC, and I'm not planning to install an XP cap remover for SoD. I don't explore every nook and cranny because I want to maximize my XP, but because I want to explore every nook and cranny.
If there's an addon that would raise the SoD XP cap to 600k and not higher, I would probably install that, for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but I'd stick with the 500k over no (or an insanely high) cap.
@Fardragon: I gotta agree with Elendar on this. I'm one of those players that methodically visits every nook and cranny of the game, and in BG1, I tend to reach the cap only halfway into the game (using a 6 man party).
Yet, I don't see a need to install an XP cap remover, being quite fine with the caps placed by ToTSC, and I'm not planning to install an XP cap remover for SoD. I don't explore every nook and cranny because I want to maximize my XP, but because I want to explore every nook and cranny.
If there's an addon that would raise the SoD XP cap to 600k and not higher, I would probably install that, for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but I'd stick with the 500k over no (or an insanely high) cap.
You actually can go in and change the actual values of the XP cap and you can even do so by each class..
I don't explore every nook and cranny because I want to maximize my XP, but because I want to explore every nook and cranny.
Oh, speaking of exploring every nook and cranny, I actually missed a few places with my cavalier and was thinking about loading it back up and going back to explore them... And collect/sell the magical items I missed, just in case the 120K gold my party has isn't enough for SoD. :P
I would class "exploring every nook and cranny" as obsessively non-standard gameplay.
To reach the xp cap in SoD, you would have to earn roughly double the xp in BG1, in a game which is about a quarter (?) of the length.
However, monsters will be more powerful in SoD, so that means more XP from monsters than in BG 1. And finishing quests will give you as many XPs as developers want. And I am sure that they will give us far, far more XPs per quest in SoD than in BG 1, just as in BG 2 you get 3000 XPs for doing almost nothing.
I would class "exploring every nook and cranny" as obsessively non-standard gameplay.
That would be your personal opinion. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one to explore every nook and cranny, and I'm also pretty sure that you're not the only one that wouldn't bother.
Regardless, as we currently have no idea about how much XP is available, and how likely we are to hit the cap, it's a bit early to call it a nonissue.
Comments
Dualclasses need 3m PER CLASS to gain those perks, whereas Multiclasses need 3m IN TOTAL (1.5m per class when Dualclassing, 1m per class when Tripleclassing).
I can see why they did it like this. Multiclass characters get roughly the same amount of HLAs as Singleclass this way, but if they did it for Dualclasses, imagine leveling that Fighter to 20 or 21, and then level up a Rogue, getting a HLA at even the low levels!
If not being able to hit level 10 is "getting the shaft" then that expression does not carry the weight it once did (I'm an old man so such things may have changed). I would understand if it was a case where Paladins got access to DUHM or something but that isn't the case (at level 10 a paladin would have one extra level 1 spell and a ranger would get one level 2 spell). Aren't we basically talking about the difference between 1 Thac0 and 3 health compared to a fighter? (who wouldn't hit that cap until the very end anyways).
Fighters, Clerics, Druids, Shamans, Sorcerers, Mages, Bards and Thieves all get to look forward to leveling twice. Paladins and Rangers only get a single levelup during the entire expansion.
Character progress can be a very enjoyable element for certain players, myself included. Having placed the cap so that all but 2 classes can look forward to leveling twice just seems odd...
Hi, Fighter(9) -> Thief(10) only requires 410K XP, Lv10 Thief will need 160K
@Abel: That's rather arbitrary. I could understand your point of view if ALL classes only got 1 additional level, or no levels at all, but all other classes gain 2 additional levels, and as Elminster pointed out, those Paladin and Ranger improvements aren't world shattering.
Yes, it would place all classes 100k XP closer to their next level, but that's also a rather arbitrary distance...
This is kinda like scoring a Iraq tank kill with a dragon instead of calling for arti or air cuz you are stupid like that and think you can frag them before they van pez you with machine guns.
Abel pointed this out in the last page
I actually just killed Sarevok with my Cavalier.. Though now I'm tempted to do so with a Fighter-->Mage as well though I'm not sure I can get to and defeat Sarevok in only 3 days... :P
Well, I'm trying my best to finish work, and that is very hard to accompish before the last working day ends. I'll try my best but no guarantees. It's quite ironic that the project I've been following so closely is ready to go live and I am not actually ready for it - because I don't know when I will have time to actually play SoD...
Focus on your work and don't stress about forum stuff
You just described my entire life.
You are making the assumption that the expansion will have enough xp for an average player to reach the cap.
I suspect that won't be possible without extensive farming. And if you are the sort of person who enjoys xp farming, the chances are you are going to be the sort of person who uses an xp cap remover.
Considering there is supposed to be 23+ hours of gameplay in the expansion, I'm sure there will be more than enough XP to reach the cap without farming. You probably also think that you can't reach 161K in BG1 without farming. Also, farming XP and using an XP cap remover aren't related in the slightest and that kind of assumption is asinine.
Yet, I don't see a need to install an XP cap remover, being quite fine with the caps placed by ToTSC, and I'm not planning to install an XP cap remover for SoD. I don't explore every nook and cranny because I want to maximize my XP, but because I want to explore every nook and cranny.
If there's an addon that would raise the SoD XP cap to 600k and not higher, I would probably install that, for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but I'd stick with the 500k over no (or an insanely high) cap.
You actually can go in and change the actual values of the XP cap and you can even do so by each class..
This post explains how to do it.
Oh, speaking of exploring every nook and cranny, I actually missed a few places with my cavalier and was thinking about loading it back up and going back to explore them... And collect/sell the magical items I missed, just in case the 120K gold my party has isn't enough for SoD. :P
To reach the xp cap in SoD, you would have to earn roughly double the xp in BG1, in a game which is about a quarter (?) of the length.
However, monsters will be more powerful in SoD, so that means more XP from monsters than in BG 1. And finishing quests will give you as many XPs as developers want. And I am sure that they will give us far, far more XPs per quest in SoD than in BG 1, just as in BG 2 you get 3000 XPs for doing almost nothing.
That would be your personal opinion. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one to explore every nook and cranny, and I'm also pretty sure that you're not the only one that wouldn't bother.
Regardless, as we currently have no idea about how much XP is available, and how likely we are to hit the cap, it's a bit early to call it a nonissue.