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Wizards of the Coast - what could be their reaction to SOD release?

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  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    Where is your proof that they have only played for 9 minutes?

    Uh... because most Steam reviews have the "hours on record" listed, and the user posted theirs? Again, all this information is here, on this forum, for you to read if you have even the slightest interest in the facts of the matter.
    Where is your proof people spouting transphobic positions COME from gamergate? Just because they are anti-sjw?

    A random steam user screaming "I dont want trannies in my game" doesnt make them gamergaters.
    They claim they're GamerGaters. You claim they're not. Either they're lying or you are; and if they're lying, and GG is so concerned with being maligned, shouldn't they take an official stand on the matter?
    Well typically when you write about a person with a particular gender identity or sexual preference you tend to take their opinions over people that dont have them.

    As far as I know, the Siege of Dragonspear writers are CIS, and yet wrote a trans cleric into their game so they could check off "Diverse" in their little portfolios.
    Says who? Have you spoken to the writers of SoD? Have you asked them if they're CIS, or if they know someone who isn't in their personal lives? Have you gone to the actual source and investigated the actual motivations? Have you done any kind of fact-checking before coming here and declaring GamerGate to be the wronged party? Do you have any kind of insight as to what's actually going on here, and why? Because if these questions don't interest you, you've got no room - none - to talk about truth or ethics or journalism or values.
    onelasttry84[Deleted User]
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714



    I could go on, but you get the picture. These are legit critcisms of the game, which is poor fucking writing that reeks of tokenism. One of those is from an actual trans person.

    Its not review bombing if the writing is actually shit, if the game is riddled with bugs, if the multiplayer and the mods dont work.

    All they're talking about are several dialogues lines. They don't discuss Glint, M'khiin, Voghiln or Corwin, they discuss one of Minsc's selection lines. They don't discuss the Hooded Man, the Shining Lady, they discuss Mizhena. The writing is quite good in this game, there're interesting quests in it.

    The game is not riddled with bugs, far from it. Here're the known issues with SoD - http://redmine.beamdog.com/projects/bg-sod-bugs/issues - but a lot of them are far from being critical issues.

    The multiplayer may be not superb, but it's playable, it's fine for a BG game.

    Mods actually do work, if you follow https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50441/modmerge-merge-your-steam-gog-zip-based-dlc-into-something-weidu-nearinfinity-dltcep-can-use recommendations.
    cmk24onelasttry84[Deleted User]
  • cmk24cmk24 Member Posts: 605
    Also another thing about mods, by definition, Beamdog is not responsible for making sure their game is compatible with past mods. Any modder knows they will likely have to update their mod every time the game gets a patch. Anyone who who says "SoD breaks my mods" does not understand how the mod process works.
    JuliusBorisov
  • TheCrowing1432TheCrowing1432 Member Posts: 17
    Uh... because most Steam reviews have the "hours on record" listed, and the user posted theirs? Again, all this information is here, on this forum, for you to read if you have even the slightest interest in the facts of the matter.
    So I popped over to the steam reviews and I looked everywhere I could and couldnt find a record of time played throughout any of the comments. Even the positive ones.



    This is what the stream reviews look like to me, I dont know where hours played is, I think its disabled.
    They claim they're GamerGaters. You claim they're not. Either they're lying or you are; and if they're lying, and GG is so concerned with being maligned, shouldn't they take an official stand on the matter?


    I want you to post a screen shot of someone who is obviously not trolling. 100% sincerely supporting gamergate, and spouting x-phobic speech.
    Says who? Have you spoken to the writers of SoD? Have you asked them if they're CIS, or if they know someone who isn't in their personal lives? Have you gone to the actual source and investigated the actual motivations? Have you done any kind of fact-checking before coming here and declaring GamerGate to be the wronged party? Do you have any kind of insight as to what's actually going on here, and why? Because if these questions don't interest you, you've got no room - none - to talk about truth or ethics or journalism or values.
    No I have not, as you well know, I am just some Anon on the internet and can only work with what Beamdog has put out publicaly. They are unlikely to share that sort of information to a random joe on the internet.

    Although considering Treant was shilling his fanbase for positive reviews to counteract the negative ones, I already have a pretty good idea of their characters.

    Oh and lets not forget Dee running off to the gracious arms of Feminist Frequency because "Muh soggy knee"

    http://nichegamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Dragonspear_Editorial-4-4-2016-1.jpg
  • TheCrowing1432TheCrowing1432 Member Posts: 17
    All they're talking about are several dialogues lines. They don't discuss Glint, M'khiin, Voghiln or Corwin, they discuss one of Minsc's selection lines. They don't discuss the Hooded Man, the Shining Lady, they discuss Mizhena. The writing is quite good in this game, there're interesting quests in it.
    Yes, that is true, but the sjw pandering lines stick out like sore thumbs and wading into identity politics is sure to irritate people.

    You want LGBT characters in your game? Fine I support you 100% just treat them with the respect you would treat anyone else and write them as normal everyday people, dont throw it in the players face that this character is gay. or this one is trans, or so on. That is tokenism.
    The game is not riddled with bugs, far from it. Here're the known issues with SoD - http://redmine.beamdog.com/projects/bg-sod-bugs/issues - but a lot of them are far from being critical issues.
    A lot of people have reported crashes, but fair enough, still people dont like to have bugs of any description in their game, and bugs on launch day is still a fair reason to give a game a lower score.
    The multiplayer may be not superb, but it's playable, it's fine for a BG game.
    Not from what Ive read, people cant seem to get it working at all.
    Mods actually do work, if you follow https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50441/modmerge-merge-your-steam-gog-zip-based-dlc-into-something-weidu-nearinfinity-dltcep-can-use recommendations.
    Fair point.

  • jimw884jimw884 Member Posts: 24
    edited April 2016
    To find hours played you have to actually click the user account then filter it for the games. Usually if it was played in the past two weeks it'll be on their main profile page.

    In regards to giving a game a lower score due to bugs, I agree. However even Arkham Knight in its broken released state wasn't being given reviews as low as this, nor on this scale.
  • TheCrowing1432TheCrowing1432 Member Posts: 17
    edited April 2016
    jimw884 said:

    To find hours played you have to actually click the user account then filter it for the games. Usually if it was played in the past two weeks it'll be on their main profile page.

    In regards to giving a game a lower score due to bugs, I agree. However even Arkham Knight in its broken released state wasn't being given reviews as low as this, nor on this scale.

    I could have sworn ive seen steam reviews have "Hours played on record" near their name without going into another screen

    And thats because Arkam Knight didnt have hamfisted 2016 Tumblr ideologies shoved in there. Also Arkam Knight ISNT a critically acclaimed cornerstone of gaming.

    I mean, Baldurs Gate has such a HUGE legacy and cult following that its widely considered one of the best games ever made.

    And you're surprised people are pissed at changing that?
  • RedKnightRedKnight Member Posts: 71
    edited April 2016
    shawne said:

    Friendly reminder that Wizards of the Coast signed off on every single bit of content in SoD. That's how they do things. Every story I've ever heard about WotC paints them as utter control freaks who will tank licensing agreements if there's a typo they don't like. You think they're going to back down because a bunch of Internet sociopaths decided to dogpile yet another female creator?

    This is not helping! You are adding to the problem by misrepresenting people who criticize the game and are just riling them up! When has straight out lying ever helped? Find me 1 comment where somebody had a problem with the game because the creator is a female! Stop pretending this has anything to do with oppression of women, because you look like an idiot.

    As people with a different worldview from yours have said a thousand times already, the problem is politics being pushed into the game forcefully. People are tired of SJW bullshit in art. Let me illuminate one more time what effect this had on different media throughout the years. First the feminist SJWs came to the comics with "lets make Thor a female" -> resulting in the same shit we are seeing on this forums. Then the SJWs infiltrated the atheist community with Atheism+ -> resulting with atheist community being divided and fighting between themselves. Then they went to music and MetalGate happened -> again the community was divided. Then they went to gaming and again the same shit happened. Every day I read: "this is sexist, he is a misogynist, this is racist, that is islamophobic, she is suffering from internalized misogyny, etc, etc, etc." After 15 years of this shit people have had enough and they are pushing back.

    Now, please tell me where in all of this do you see anyone saying that we have problems with women being part of the gaming industry???

    Women have been part of the gaming industry since forever! Some of my favorite games were created by women (Sierra adventure games for example). Nobody has a problem with women being part of the industry and by spreading this misinformation you are just adding fuel to the fire, because you are lying about people who disagree with you and nobody likes that!

    When it comes to the topic of the thread, the first solution is that people like you stop misinterpreting the criticism with lies and SJW propaganda. WotC and Beamdog needs to publicaly says they are inclusive to all gamers - not just the SJW types. They need to show to people they care about every fan - not just the SJWs. Everything else leads to division as seen in other communities. BG community is shrinking by the day, since the game is showing signs of age and people grow families and quit gaming, so dividing communities is something they should try to avoid at all cost! Unfortunately, they decided to pull the victim card and pretend this is about hatred of women, hatred of trans people and other non-sense. This narrative will just divide the community further and they will lose a huge number of costumers. I am a huge BG fan, and even I almost refunded the game upon reading that horrible interview on Kotaku, where Amber Scott called original games sexist and needed of change.

    And again, this is not the first time we are seeing this bullshit SJW narrative. Not so long ago the devs behind Overwatch changed the pose of their female character Tracer, because SJWs found it offensive. Not so long ago the devs behind Divinity Original Sin covered up their female character on the front cover, because SJWs found it offensive. A female character in Game of Thrones gets raped, OMG - SJWs lose their shit. Then there is Anita Sarkeesian with her incredibly retarded videos criticizing 99% of games as being sexist for the most retarded reasons imaginable. I could go on for days about the SJW insanity. So, when one of the writers of BG DoS came out in apparent support of this SJW insanity, people lost their shit. It has nothing to do with the game, it has nothing to do with women, and it has all to do with deeper and longer cultural war that is raging on the internet. Baldur's Gate by the decision of Beamdog unfortunately got involved in this war and now they are paying the price.

    Again... the solution is not to divide your community, but to persuade people that despite our differences this is still the real BG. It is our love for BG that should bring us together - and Beamdog needs to show they want everyone to play their game. Misrepresenting people's motives is just going to make things worse.
  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597
    edited April 2016
    My friends please remember that the good folks at Beamdog also love Baldur's Gate and don't want to change the games that we all love. Beyond the addition of Neera/Rasaad etc they haven't changed or added any content to the old games besides graphical updates and other tweaks. Siege of Dragonspear is a new addition to the series which you are welcome to ignore if you feel it doesn't fit with your vision of the series.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    About the playing time and reviews.

    If you look at BGEE - http://store.steampowered.com/app/228280/ - you can see the playing time of reviewers.

    The fact that the playing time of reviewers of SoD is not shown is because it's an expansion and Steam doesn't count time for an expansion alone, i.e. their system can't do it.

    So, nobody deleted any information.
    cmk24lolien
  • helmo1977helmo1977 Member Posts: 364
    RedKnight said:



    Again... the solution is not to divide your community, but to persuade people that despite our differences this is still the real BG. It is our love for BG that should bring us together - and Beamdog needs to show they want everyone to play their game. Misrepresenting people's motives is just going to make things worse.

    I agree with some parts of your post but this one is absurd. One joke about GG, one transexual minor npc and suddendly Bemadog need to show they want everyone to play their game? Frankly, you are being too soft skinned. By the way, the very same problem some people "from the other side" has.

    Beamdog and WotC want to make money, not further any political agenda, even if the writers have their own opinions and they have taken one or two phrases among more than 100.000 in the game to state them (indirectly). One or two lines among on hundred thousand are so horrible for you that you cant play the game? you cant enjoy it? As I said, this is as absurd as some of the things Anita Sarkessen keeps ranting about.
    [Deleted User]
  • RedKnightRedKnight Member Posts: 71
    edited April 2016
    helmo1977 said:

    RedKnight said:



    Again... the solution is not to divide your community, but to persuade people that despite our differences this is still the real BG. It is our love for BG that should bring us together - and Beamdog needs to show they want everyone to play their game. Misrepresenting people's motives is just going to make things worse.

    I agree with some parts of your post but this one is absurd. One joke about GG, one transexual minor npc and suddendly Bemadog need to show they want everyone to play their game? Frankly, you are being too soft skinned. By the way, the very same problem some people "from the other side" has.

    Beamdog and WotC want to make money, not further any political agenda, even if the writers have their own opinions and they have taken one or two phrases among more than 100.000 in the game to state them (indirectly). One or two lines among on hundred thousand are so horrible for you that you cant play the game? you cant enjoy it? As I said, this is as absurd as some of the things Anita Sarkessen keeps ranting about.
    People dont know its just one transexual minor NPC. They read the Kotaku interview which makes it sound like this game is going to be a SJW promotional pamphlet. Then they see Beamdog took a jab at GamerGate. Then Beamdog pulls the victim card and misrepresents criticism as hatred against trans people. People have not even played the game. They dont know what is in it. They are reacting based on what Beamdog themselves are saying.

    Also, i am not beeing thin skinned. I havent downvoted the game on Metacritic. I am just saying I understand the reasoning of people who are doing it. Its not just 1 or 2 lines as you put it. Its the interview, its the jab at GG, its the stuff Beamdog has been saying, and its all the SJW crap people have been swallowing in the last 10-15 years. This here is just the straw that broke the camel's back for many people. Just sayin...
    [Deleted User]
  • gunmangunman Member Posts: 215
    What I don't understand is why Beamdog did not employ a writer that is not concerned with things like sexism, feminism, whatever, and just focused on the high fantasy setting and quality writing. I'm sure there are a lot of good writers that are not involved in this blown out of proportion social justice and care about what truly matters for their job. This whole circus would have been easily avoided.
    bluntfeather
  • TheCrowing1432TheCrowing1432 Member Posts: 17
    gunman said:

    What I don't understand is why Beamdog did not employ a writer that is not concerned with things like sexism, feminism, whatever, and just focused on the high fantasy setting and quality writing. I'm sure there are a lot of good writers that are not involved in this blown out of proportion social justice and care about what truly matters for their job. This whole circus would have been easily avoided.

    Exactly.
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