Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit nwn.beamdog.com to make an order. NWN:EE FAQ is available.
Soundtracks for BG:EE, SoD, BG2:EE, IWD:EE, PST:EE are now available in the Beamdog store.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

New version of Enchanted Weapon spell seems subpar

AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 595
edited March 2016 in The Road to v2.0
New behaviour:
Dee wrote: »

Good catch. Here's the full text:


The Enchanted Weapon spell, instead of creating a magical weapon that the caster can wield, now alters the caster’s currently equipped weapon to increase its effective enchantment level to +3. The spell’s description has been updated to reflect this change.


This severely reduces the utility of the spell, making it almost useless for single-classed mages.

Being able to pass your fighter a +3 weapon so that they can hit that pesky golem is what makes the spell worthwhile in the first place, and even then only for the first part of the game. For themselves, mages already have Phantom Blade and MMM.

I do not see much of a application for the spell in this form, unless there is a weird combination with a weapon with a very good on-hit/on-equip ability and a low enchantment bonus that I miss right now.

Please revert the spell to the old form or make it castable on party members. It was never very powerful and only helpful in very specific circumstances.



JuliusBorisovArdulIthual

Comments

  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 595
    edited March 2016
    Dee wrote: »
    The paragraph actually needs to be updated; the spell can be cast on other creatures, but has a range of 0.

    Thanks, that sounds reasonable.

    In this case, I think it might make sense to think of some overpowered combination with other weapons ;)

    Do special abilities remain intact? If so, the combination of the spell and the old version of the Stupifier seems like an interesting example. Dagger of Venom could also be interesting. Maybe Daystar?

    And how about Belm? Will it work on the Offhand-Weapon as well?

    Could also be very interesting if it works on ranged weapons, in terms of what they will hit. But I think that will still be down to ammunition?

    GrammarsaladJuliusBorisov
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,273
    I am really looking forward to this change. (And I'm very interested in exactly what the opcode that governs this ability does).

  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    Enchanted weapon isn't supposed to improve (nor diminish) already magical weapons. It is not modifying the items (or replace the items with another), so any existing magical abilities will remain intact. With the ability to cast it on others, it should be useful for fighters without magical weapons.

    Grammarsalad
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 595
    But an increase (see above) of the existing bonus to +3 is a temporary improvement of an existing magical weapon?

    So is the description wrong or would you want it not to work on already magical weapons?

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,437
    It doesn't change the weapon's to-hit or damage bonuses, and it won't further increase the enchantment level of a weapon if the weapon is already +3 or better. The spell's use is to make a weapon "strike" as a +3 weapon, so that it can bypass a target's magical protections. The weapon's existing abilities, if any, remain intact.

    So if you use it on a character wielding a Longsword, a +1 Longsword, or a +2 Longsword, it will make that weapon strike and bypass magical protections as if it were a +3 weapon.

    Ithual
  • dibdib Member Posts: 384
    Would be nice if the spell scaled, not to become obsolete so soon after you're able to cast it. Especially if it now only improves enchantment level as opposed to creating a weapon that gives all bonuses of a normal +3 sword. Maybe just change it to a +5 enchantment by default?

    subtledoctorSpaceInvader
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 595
    dib wrote: »
    Would be nice if the spell scaled, not to become obsolete so soon after you're able to cast it. Especially if it now only improves enchantment level as opposed to creating a weapon that gives all bonuses of a normal +3 sword. Maybe just change it to a +5 enchantment by default?

    That seems overpowered for the spell level. The real issue is to hit requirements. +5 goes right through Improved Mantle. In the case of missile weapons the dmg bonus could also be a problem.

    Also think of Belm, Celestial Fury, Blackrazor to start with. All would becone much viable in ToB.

  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 397
    Ammar wrote: »
    In the case of missile weapons the dmg bonus could also be a problem.

    It doesn't change the to-hit or damage bonus. It only allows you to damage creatures that require +3 or less weapons to be hit, e.g. Iron Golems.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,437
    Ammar wrote: »

    Also think of Belm, Celestial Fury, Blackrazor to start with. All would becone much viable in ToB.

    I don't know that this would necessarily be a bad thing, but it's definitely something that has to be considered before making the spell more potent.

    JuliusBorisovSpaceInvader
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,314
    You could change the duration of the spell if you make it so that it counts as a +5 weapon to hit. For example, to 1 round.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,704
    As it is in the new patch, this seems pretty underpowered for a 5th level spell.

    Raising it to +5 might be overpowered... but then again you're using a valuable 5th level slot forvthat temporary effect, I think it's a decent trade-off.

    Scaling seems like the best option. Say, echantment = caster level / 4, rounded up. So the .spl file would need 3 headers: at 9th level it would be +3, at 13th level it would be +4, and at 17th level it would be +5.

    SpaceInvaderFlashburn
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 1,910
    As it is in the new patch, this seems pretty underpowered for a 5th level spell.

    Raising it to +5 might be overpowered... but then again you're using a valuable 5th level slot forvthat temporary effect, I think it's a decent trade-off.

    Scaling seems like the best option. Say, echantment = caster level / 4, rounded up. So the .spl file would need 3 headers: at 9th level it would be +3, at 13th level it would be +4, and at 17th level it would be +5.
    It's a 4th level spell IIRC.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,704
    edited March 2016
    oops. IGNORE ME!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aGbPs5y3oz8

    illathid
  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 214
    What happens if the recipient is unarmed? +3 fists?

    JuliusBorisov
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,437
    oops. IGNORE ME!

    THANK YOU. I've been looking for that clip for almost a decade. I finally understand the reference that Brian was making all those years ago...

    Dharius said:
    What happens if the recipient is unarmed? +3 fists?
    Yep.

    JuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,314
    Dee said:
    Dharius said:
    What happens if the recipient is unarmed? +3 fists?
    Yep.
    Wow. Now there's a way to improve Monks's attacks in BG1 if you have a mage with the Enchanted Weapon spell memorized.

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 6,893
    edited March 2016
    I suppose I could just test it myself, but how does this spell work for dual wielding? Does it affect both weapons? Just the main hand?

    ...I can't wait for the answer. I am going to test it myself.

    Edit: Yup, it affects both weapons.

    JuliusBorisovluskan
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,704
    edited March 2016
    I'm guessing this just affects the *person* the same way you can give someone a melee hit effect to do magic damage with every hit (which btw is part of an awesome HLA in my awesome new mod... *cough*)

    In fact I would guess that, rather than creating a new opcode specificxaly for this spell, they just created a new opcode for "strike with enchantment level" snd this spell applues it via .eff through the old "melee hit effect" and "ranged hit effect" opcodes.
    bengoshi said:


    Dee said:


    Dharius said:

    What happens if the recipient is unarmed? +3 fists?

    Yep.

    Wow. Now there's a way to improve Monks's attacks in BG1 if you have a mage with the Enchanted Weapon spell memorized.

    Yeah... a 7th level mage... I still recommend using my mod for this. Switch back and forth at your leisure, which means you can also hit magic golems etc. in BG2.

    (EDIT - what do you know, the new forum software screwed up the quote formatting, again, in a whole new way! Wonderful.)

    Grammarsalad
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,547
    I'm in agreement with letting Enchanted Weapon scale with caster levels. +1 enhancement bonus/3 levels as per Neverwinter Nights is fine with me.

    I wouldn't mind +1/4 levels either, but when the enhancement bonus improves, you'll probably have already found a weapon with an equal enhancement bonus by then.

  • cloudkillbeatsallcloudkillbeatsall Member Posts: 94
    edited March 2016
    This is off topic but is there any desire to do anything similar with the Shillelagh and Flame Blade spells?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,704
    Shillelagh is in desperate need of a reason to exist. Some kind of scaling would be good, and an APR boost would be good. (I think one of the original myths giving rise to this spell talks about a magical cudgel that strikes very quickly.)

    GrammarsaladIthual
  • AbelAbel Member Posts: 716
    I think it's sad that this spell doesn't give bonuses to THAC0 and damage. I guess it's the trade-off of being able to enchant anything.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,732
    Personally I think this substantially improves the spell. Before it was a meh spell that gave a limited selection of weapo. Now it allows so many different weapons to remain viable (there is only 1 enemy I can think of who you must fight that requires greater than +3 weapons to hit). For a level 4 spell it's now pretty awesome. Belm, Mundane, Gnasher,

    JuliusBorisovAbel
Sign In or Register to comment.