It'd be interesting to work on a mod for her actually. I'd be up for it.
But I don't think it's a stretch to get on a trans consultant at all - it's sort of standard practice now since it's a sensitive thing. I'm talking more someone to read over the existing dialogue, or to come to and say "what might she say in this scenario?"
Like for someone like us, it would be fairly minor, but for them doing it alone it would be an awful lot of work. Being able to have someone they can identify as a consultant also means they can point to someone who is actually trans, who has a voice in this, which is important(though generally a lot of shows and stuff pick somewhat problematic people to do it).
Remember too that games aren't like books, they have lots of different people working together and pitching suggestions.
Really dont understand how people can say that character is fine, she is nothing than some kind of : i will teach you what trans are.....which is useless in the sword and spell adventure. They coud have done something great with the character like being a party member with a romance and you discover her nature in the romance, you have the occasion the react on it and maybe it affect if she stay or leave you. Dont any of you think this could have been a great way to present it while at the same time having fun discovering it and playing with the character? Sorry but just talking with generic non playable character on the sidewalk isnt my idea of fun in bg.
i don't think "let me teach you what trans is" is an inherently bad thing in of itself. I mean, IMO it does a good job of explaining trans in a generic ye olde fantasy setting. Throwing out ideas for others to latch onto... I mean, at least you can say your game taught someone something.
I dont remember, maybe partially because when the original two games came out there wasnt as much on the internet back then but did the girdle of masculinity/femininity or the Edwina storyline get this much attention? I know its different than this situation but its not like gender issues werent touched upon in small amounts previously. I think tying her more into the backstory (maybe including those other two instances) would be helpful. I discussed this a bit more on the other forum post about her but I think there definitely is room for improvement with the character from multiple angles.
Those were jokes. People are fine with trans people as long as we're jokes. That's what really pisses me off about the whole thing. Nobody has even brought that up. In fact they've lauded such things.
@Roseweave: hm...Edwina as a jab against Trans people? Do you see that particular joke realy that way?
tbh I haven't played BG2 so I can't comment. But from what I've seen it sort of seems that way? In that the party treat it as a big joke.
It has nothing to do with identifying with a gender, or trans people. By mistake Edwin (male) ended up in a female body, and he's not too happy about it. It's just like when a male joke about waking up in a female body, it has absolutely nothing to do with trans people.
@Roseweave: hm...Edwina as a jab against Trans people? Do you see that particular joke realy that way?
tbh I haven't played BG2 so I can't comment. But from what I've seen it sort of seems that way? In that the party treat it as a big joke.
To be honest, I don't think that's the case here and I'm generally pretty observant of heterosexist stuff in media. BG2 was made when the issue of gender identity was barely part of the public consciousness, much less an ongoing social conversation - I think this was just a gag about a self-proclaimed all powerful wizard accidentally changing his sex (Edwin's gender remains constant) and being pitifully unable to reverse it.
I run Edwin whenever I can - it's a great sidequest
Really dont understand how people can say that character is fine, she is nothing than some kind of : i will teach you what trans are.....which is useless in the sword and spell adventure. They coud have done something great with the character like being a party member with a romance and you discover her nature in the romance, you have the occasion the react on it and maybe it affect if she stay or leave you. Dont any of you think this could have been a great way to present it while at the same time having fun discovering it and playing with the character? Sorry but just talking with generic non playable character on the sidewalk isnt my idea of fun in bg.
That was my point on the other thread, its kind of a 'here is how trans people identify' and 'here is how I came up with my name' It doesnt add much to the gaming experience except to introduce a character whose conversation leads to no other sub plots. I dont recall Dorn or Hexxat having to explain their sexual orientation, I dont see why the Lady of Tempus has to explain herself unless its relevant to move a plot forward, and if its not its just unnecessary explaining of an issue (is the trans issues version of mansplaining, transplaining?).
Dont get me wrong, I like the concept of the character, I just think that without a follow up or an introduction to her earlier on its just a bit pointless. If she had a quest to help with her identity or transition or if she was a PC and this talk was part of a romance storyline with the main character, I would completely understand the dialog as it stands but it did nto fit. Hopeully they give her more development and retcon her into the other games but this was done hastly and feels like it was a "hey what havent we added into the game to bring it up to trend?" and they couldnt find a way to add fighting body shaming or lecturing Elminster about his pipe smoking into the game.
We already multiple time write that the "her quest MUST be about her transness" or "her side quest must be about helping her with her transition/identity (mostly by using the girdle of M/F ...", because please, please, please stop giving trans people only story about rejection or stuggle because of their transidentity. There no reason in the Realms that happen.
(Stop with the "sexual orientation" please, gender identity is not a sexual orientation)
Her current dialogue is fine: charname ask for her name's story their get it. No more no less. I'm totally for add some quest for the character to make that trans character more present in the game. Not to make her current writing more painfull or more "acceptable" in non-trans eyes by adding pain, rejectio, struggle, etc because of transness.
I am very ... uneasy with the fact she must reveal her transidentity only if it's part of a lovestoryline. Event more than the idea having her quest link to the transness ... trans folk exists even if their not in couple ... and there a lot more of problem on writing on transness and romance, it's a very way more complex thing to address (don't get me wrong, i love the idea of a romance option. I hate the idea of a romance option that focus on transness, why it must have to be an issue ?).
Sorry, i'm tired today. Too much only "sexual" or "polical" or "painfull & struggling" view on trans character. Trans characters can exist just because ... their exist ... and there no lore-reason for them to fear or hide themself. Sorry for the mess.
It'd be interesting to work on a mod for her actually. I'd be up for it.
But I don't think it's a stretch to get on a trans consultant at all - it's sort of standard practice now since it's a sensitive thing. I'm talking more someone to read over the existing dialogue, or to come to and say "what might she say in this scenario?"
Like for someone like us, it would be fairly minor, but for them doing it alone it would be an awful lot of work. Being able to have someone they can identify as a consultant also means they can point to someone who is actually trans, who has a voice in this, which is important(though generally a lot of shows and stuff pick somewhat problematic people to do it).
Remember too that games aren't like books, they have lots of different people working together and pitching suggestions.
Yes you're not wrong. But I don't want to impose myself in the Beamdog internal affair. If they ask for trans-review i will be glad to help. If not ... i'll cant do anything. So let's wait and see.
For the mod thing i'll start looking how mod work. I have some programming skill but ... i dunno anything about mod-programming for BG. I also have some idea (not Mizhena linked) but my english aren't enough to write a lot I guess. Or not without a kind and patient rewriter.
Mizhena has quest outside of her meeting dialogue you know? I'm not sure how many of you have played the game but as you play it it's pretty clear that the defining characteristic of Mizhena is being a Priest of Tempus not being transgender.
If there's one thing you need to know about Mizhena to understand her character it's that she's a priest of Tempus, the Lord of Battles, a deity that encourages fighting no matter the side.
My name is a combined name(name1-name2) and if you ask me why it's so, i'll of course say that it's because that's what my parents agreed to when they divorced. That doesn't make "having divorced parents" my defining trait.
Once again, I suggest you guys play the game some more before trying to mod a character. Pretending that you're knowledgeable enough to know what's best about a character when you haven't even done the few quests that this character relates to seems awfully pretentious and insulting.
Mizhena has quest outside of her meeting dialogue you know? I'm not sure how many of you have played the game but as you play it it's pretty clear that the defining characteristic of Mizhena is being a Priest of Tempus not being transgender.
If there's one thing you need to know about Mizhena to understand her character it's that she's a priest of Tempus, the Lord of Battles, a deity that encourages fighting no matter the side.
My name is a combined name(name1-name2) and if you ask me why it's so, i'll of course say that it's because that's what my parents agreed to when they divorced. That doesn't make "having divorced parents" my defining trait.
Once again, I suggest you guys play the game some more before trying to mod a character. Pretending that you're knowledgeable enough to know what's best about a character when you haven't even done the few quests that this character relates to seems awfully pretentious and insulting.
Oh. To be clear i play BG1, BG1:EE and a few BG2:EE. I'll spoil myself most of the Mizhena lines by viewing at it on Youtube (Cause the controverse bring the thing to me and it's some very important subject for me). I have plan to play the game anyway (already buy it)
I'm very shocked nobody on this controvery talk about the fact she already have side quest ... and i cant found it on youtube ... To be fair i mostly use my time to replay BG1 and jump on BG:SoD with a new character. Why the **** is this controversy if there already side quest linked to Mizhena. Bwarg ... nevermind, i know where it come from.
I think most of people here agree the current Mizhena is great mate, but because Beamdog say that they'll expand her story it still a good thing to discuss. (The mod idea seem more, to me, an idea to increase the lore of the game on this subject)
She is part of 3 side quests that I know of, Safana stole some stuff that belonged to her so you can ask her about it and learn that it already was stolen from her by another guy in the camp, there is no mention of gender in this quest. This has dialogs that show her personnality as she accuses you of being the thief but if you repetively insists on fighting her, she will say that it's obvious that a warrior such as charname would not do something as low as this.
The second quest is a bit more spoilery.
You can help 2 recruits rebuild an altar to Tempus in the Crusader's camp and after finding the pieces of the altar, you first need to put them together and have the pieces blessed by a Priest of Tempus, which Mizhena is, so you can go find her and ask her to bless the pieces for you
There is a 3rd quest, still some spoiler:
In the quest "On the fence", you need to get a holy symbol from a priest in the Crusader's camp and one of the options is to play a board game with the priest with his holy symbol as the wager. But you first need to procure yourself the board game which Mizhena has.
Every single of these quests involves some dialog with her that's beyond "I need this, give me this" "ok" and her gender is not mentioned in any of these quests either.
The controversy exists because a few people played the game 20 minutes and were outraged by the character, so they made some noise and it ended up being such a big controversy when some groups joined in and made unnecessary noise out of it.
Admittedly, these quests are all fairly "late game" as they happen in the 3rd set of areas but the people complaining probably jumped on forums before going that far into the game. I didn't know of these quests either until I went through my second playthrough because I unintentionnally skipped the 2 quests under spoiler tags and solved the first one in an another way so initially she seemed to me just like one of the multitude of characters that are just there to tell their story as there is many in BG1 and BG2. As I played more, I realised she's more than that and actually has a personnality and a good bit of writing aside from her name dialog.
She is part of 3 side quests that I know of, Safana stole some stuff that belonged to her so you can ask her about it and learn that it already was stolen from her by another guy in the camp, there is no mention of gender in this quest. This has dialogs that show her personnality as she accuses you of being the thief but if you repetively insists on fighting her, she will say that it's obvious that a warrior such as charname would not do something as low as this.
The second quest is a bit more spoilery.
You can help 2 recruits rebuild an altar to Tempus in the Crusader's camp and after finding the pieces of the altar, you first need to put them together and have the pieces blessed by a Priest of Tempus, which Mizhena is, so you can go find her and ask her to bless the pieces for you
There is a 3rd quest, still some spoiler:
In the quest "On the fence", you need to get a holy symbol from a priest in the Crusader's camp and one of the options is to play a board game with the priest with his holy symbol as the wager. But you first need to procure yourself the board game which Mizhena has.
Every single of these quests involves some dialog with her that's beyond "I need this, give me this" "ok" and her gender is not mentioned in any of these quests either.
The controversy exists because a few people played the game 20 minutes and were outraged by the character, so they made some noise and it ended up being such a big controversy when some groups joined in and made unnecessary noise out of it.
Admittedly, these quests are all fairly "late game" as they happen in the 3rd set of areas but the people complaining probably jumped on forums before going that far into the game. I didn't know of these quests either until I went through my second playthrough because I unintentionnally skipped the 2 quests under spoiler tags and solved the first one in an another way so initially she seemed to me just like one of the multitude of characters that are just there to tell their story as there is many in BG1 and BG2. As I played more, I realised she's more than that and actually has a personnality and a good bit of writing aside from her name dialog.
Ok. I have no reason to not belive you. I'll check myself in all case when i come at this part of the game. Thank for the sharing.
Now i'm gonna facedesk untill my desk break up to get out all this nosense controversial **** out of my head.
(So i'm totaly wondering what the dev team will do a an expandation with this new informations)
Mizhena has quest outside of her meeting dialogue you know? I'm not sure how many of you have played the game but as you play it it's pretty clear that the defining characteristic of Mizhena is being a Priest of Tempus not being transgender.
If there's one thing you need to know about Mizhena to understand her character it's that she's a priest of Tempus, the Lord of Battles, a deity that encourages fighting no matter the side.
My name is a combined name(name1-name2) and if you ask me why it's so, i'll of course say that it's because that's what my parents agreed to when they divorced. That doesn't make "having divorced parents" my defining trait.
Once again, I suggest you guys play the game some more before trying to mod a character. Pretending that you're knowledgeable enough to know what's best about a character when you haven't even done the few quests that this character relates to seems awfully pretentious and insulting.
Another example of people from divorced backgrounds shoving their political agenda down our throats!
I didn't realise she was involved several quests. Holy Sharess I'm mad at people now. She's already more engaging than most one note NPCs, what do you want?
Still it would be great to see her as party member or more have a dedicated sub-plot, I guess.
Another example of people from divorced backgrounds shoving their political agenda down our throats!
(Mate. The trolls on the forum are so unparodiable it take me time to understand it was a joke. Very sorry for the confusion)
I think there a lot of good things on this thread . Even if it's not Mizhena I start want writing some little quest - idea that explore transness and gender conformity or unconformity in the Realms (My main idea involve the Griddle of M/F but ... in a very different view. Starting an elf character who use to live in a community dedicated to C and doesn't understand how this belt can work. Because the meaning of "change your body to the another gender" doesn't make sense to them. At first they ask if your ok to show them how it work on you and "another gender compagnon" (using the remove cursed spell of course), but when they try on them it doesn't do anything (mostly because they doesn't see them body as part of one gender in fact. So the belt cannot ... "change them to the other", I like this for the Griddle, if it change the people body for the oposite they see for them own gender it make the item a really cursed item))
But it's not really the subject of the topic. There people here interrested in opening a new on this subject and sharing idea / remark / critics ?
(Not necessary in the goal to make a mod or nothing. Just for the sharing idea experience. Beside some obvious troll this is the first time I have online a so indeep intelligent conversation with people about how talk on this subject in the Realms-lore)
The SJW thing is overblown. The bias toward transgender is showing. Kill dozens of kids in baldur's gate, nobody blinks an eye. Kill one transgender NPC and everybody loses their minds.
The SJW thing is overblown. The bias toward transgender is showing. Kill dozens of kids in baldur's gate, nobody blinks an eye. Kill one transgender NPC and everybody loses their minds.
Reviewbomb a game, invade the forums, and post that disgusting video causes people to get upset. Yes indeed. I'm not aware of any of this happening with killing children.
Now if people screamed about children being in the game, tried to destroy the company for their inclusion and then posted videos about killing children then I'm sure it would upset people as well.
Yeah, after finding out that Mizhena has additional sidequests that I didn't see the first time around, I'm even more pissed about this whole "it wouldn't be SJW if only she had more to her" nonsense. She has more content than a lot of the other NPCs and none of it references her being trans outside of that one line of dialogue. This was basically a case of reactionary gamers with serious anti-LGBTQ issues freaking out about that line and obviously not finishing the rest of her content. How sad that so much damage has already been done because of them.
I'm even more ambivalent about changing her now, but I'm hoping whatever changes they do make don't smack of appeasement or temperance. The character was fine.
Update for people: I have received a response from David to the MP i have send when he ask for people feedback. I have send my thought about the fact it will be nice if the story of Mizhena don't focus on her transness, or at least not on a painfull story about transness, and also that it will be great if there a "oh yes just like me" or equivalente dialogue option.
Due to the fact the answer was really nice i keep very good hope on the team work. I don't realy know what changes Beamdog will do, but untill it was release out i try keep positive spirit.
Personally I don't mind if they make a quest or dialogue option that provides a more natural "in" to the knowledge about her previous name or her transition. Even though they basically did everything right with Mizhena in the first place, I do agree that just coughing up that info almost seems like a non-sequitor the way it's presented. Like, I'm pretty up-front about my transness, but once I've had The Surgery I don't know if I'm going to exactly go around replying to people who ask "That’s an unusual name. I don’t think I’ve heard it before." with "I created the name myself several years ago. My birth name proved unsuitable." and that's basically the only thing I want to see changed as a trans person. I'd rather there be a better lead-in to that, even if the lead-in is someone deadnaming her as a scripted event or something, something where there's a reason to give up that piece of information to complete an incomplete picture or something.
I mean, I even like the idea of a transition-related quest tbqh! Personally, I feel like people who felt like that one exchange with an NPC involved in multiple quests where her trans identity wasn't mentioned at all was "an agenda being jammed down their throat" should be forced to deal with more trans content since anything short of removing her wasn't going to make them happy...but maybe that's just me as a bitter trans person who doesn't care about people who'd rather not have to encounter trans people in their media lmao
Mizhena is *fine*. If she had said her name was weird because she changed it after switching faiths to indicate her rebirth under a new God, no one would've cared no matter how poorly written or generic the dialogue was. But because she said she did it due to realizing her true gender identity, it's an issue?
Exactly. People like to use the dialogue as the excuse for complaining about the character but as you pointed out, if it had been about religion or something else rather than being transgendered, this would not even be an issue.
in a setting with names like mooshie debroochie, argus retch, rai guy, or even pikel bouldershoulder and shingles mcruff, I would not find mizhena even remotely weird, way too much competition for weird names for that one to hit the ol radar.
The people screaming about this character blew the whole thing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of proportion. This is a bad temper tantrum that spiraled out of control into a review bombing campaign, a majority of it done by people that didn't even play the game piling on to get their kicks in while everyone was ganging up in a scrum of lunacy.
the bugs and almost impossible multiplayer alone deserves the bad reviews. This whole issue is clouding that beamdog did a terrible job on the game itself.
I disagree friend but if you want the game to be less buggy then please report those you come across so they can be fixed.
If everyone who complains about how buggy it is submitted a review for each bug, I could at least give them credit for being helpful! And would I ever like to be able to give them credit for something positive or constructive, I tells ya.
okay, I've been thinking about this the past couple of days. One thing that this thread really hasn't done is given actual examples on how people think Mizhena should be written better. So I've put together a rough little bit of dialogue that for me, as a straight, white male, would feel like a satisfactory, amicable interaction with Mizhena.
"Mizhena? That's an interesting name."
"Thank you, I chose it myself.
"You did? why?"
"My... Birth name wasn't really suitable any longer, so I decided to come up with a new one."
"Really? May I ask why your birth name no longer fit you?"
"I... I'm sorry, I appreciate your interest and curiosity, but I don't really feel comfortable discussing that with you. Some things are too personal to talk about. I hope you can understand that."
"May I at least ask how you came up with your name?"
"Sure, that's fine. I actually have a bit of a passion for languages. I enjoy finding out how they're constructed, the origins of the language and the structural similarities different ones can share. Some people find it an odd interest to have, but it makes me happy. Anyway, when I decided to change my name, I decided to put my knowledge to use. I chose some short words and syllables that sounded pleasing to my ear when combined. Each piece also has a specific meaning too, that way I am able to cherish my name on multiple levels."
"You're a linguist? So would you be willing to translate any documents I come across and can't understand myself?"
"Absolutely. I would enjoy the challenge."
"Thank you Mizhena, Farewell."
*later, after CHARNAME has done some quests (those that already exist connected to Mizhena, and possibly new quests related to the mentioned in dialogue above 'document translations') and CHARNAME has a reasonably high reputation score*
"CHARNAME, I'd like to apologise if I sounded overly terse the last time we spoke in depth. As I said previously, some things are very personal to talk about, but if you still wish to hear more about why I changed my name, then I would be willing to talk further."
At this point, my ability to write fails me But yes, this would be the point that Mizhena would reveal that she is Transgendered.
This is of course, the amicable path to go down. CHARNAME is a relatively nice person and they've got a decent reputation. Mizhena is much more likely to open up to them, while CHARNAME's with mid to low reputation scores would never have Mizhena reveal her Transgender status to them no matter how many quests they do related to her.
Now for the controversial bit, at least regarding these forums goes. As much as some don't like the idea, there should be other options in dialogue that don't treat her so well. These options however, shouldn't be there without consequences to the player. For example, when Mizhena tells CHARNAME about the origin of her name the player should have the option to say something like "That is just dumb. What a stupid way to come up with a name!" At which point, insulted, Mizhena gets angry. She refuses to open up any further, refuses to translate any documents for CHARNAME (removing those sidequests) and CHARNAME loses all Reputation discounts on the goods and services that she sells (if it is possible to code, I'd love to see a massive mark up added also. She's willing to serve CHARNAME as a merchant, but she's going to charge him through the nose for it from that point onwards.)
I would also like to see a final tier Donkeyhole reaction from CHARNAME, but I would understand if people feel that this one is going too far, even with the consequences for doing so. I would like to see the option when Mizhena opens up about her Transgender status for CHARNAME to not only support her, but be able to not care... Or reject her entirely. At this point, angry, and truly hurt and upset at opening up to someone who didn't deserve it, Mizhena would leave the camp entirely and CHARNAME suffers a reputation loss.
It is my understanding that for a good portion of the expansion Mizhena is the main access point for Cleric store abilities (such as raise dead, remove curse etc) along with easy access to healing potions etc. (Damn you Real life for giving me so much to do so I don't get chance to play enough to confirm this for myself) If this is so, having Mizhena leave the camp over CHARNAME's bigotry is a severe consequence for the player, making the game much more difficult, but not impossible to complete.
I hope people can see what I am doing here. I am trying to craft Mizhena into a fully fleshed out character, one who acts somewhat realistically, but I'm also trying to make sure that as a character, she can be used to educate those who are ignorant or worse when it comes to Transgenderism.
I want it to be a case that the player has interacted with Mizhena a number of times (for clerical services, quests and just plain dialogue) to the point that they're forming a bond with her. I want the moment when she reveals her transgender status to become a moment of moral quandary for the ignorant or bigoted player.
"Mizhena has been a good character, she has been useful translating these documents for me and helping me find and identify magical items. She even resurrected Khalid and Safana for me after I made a stupid mistake in that last battle... Do I really want to lose that even though I don't like Transgendered people?"
Hopefully, the answer at that point will be "No, I don't" and they will chose a dialogue option that supports Mizhena. But they still need the option to say "Yes, get lost!" If the dialogue has been done right, then hopefully the player will feel regardless of which option they choose, that this is a natural development of two people conversing, and not the developers preaching an ideology.
I know that to some it seems strange to some to make a big fuss over a side character, but that side character has so much possibility for enacting real change in someone's thinking. The vast majority of bigotry that we see today comes from ignorance, and the fear that comes from that ignorance, not any actual maliciousness (though unfortunately it does, far too often come out that way). The moral quandary I posit above is a vital first step in normalizing Transgenderism for someone.
Even if someone were to choose the "yes, get lost" option, you have still planted a seed in their mind. It is possible that the next time they come across a Transgender character in another game a part of them could go "Well, Mezhina was nice in Siege of Dragonspear, lets give this one a chance". At which point real progress is made, and we move forward into a future where Transgenderism is seen to be just as normal as being a straight, white male.
I live in hope.
See now, THIS is a good way to write and present a trans character! I would have no issues with Mizhena if she had been introduced this way. I can imagine that it isn't easy for some transgender people to talk about their gender and their views on this subject. I would absolutely have no problems with Mizhena with this more realistic approach to her character. I would even include her in my party if she were better written like this. Mostly also because I don't have much experience with trans people and this would be an opportunity in-game for me to get to know such people better. As for the less positive reactions if you were to play an evil character, you could add a line such as 'I don't care, show me your wares' and lose the advantage on better prices for the goods she is selling. It would make sense because I believe evil characters to be much more self-centered and uncaring about others.
Comments
But I don't think it's a stretch to get on a trans consultant at all - it's sort of standard practice now since it's a sensitive thing. I'm talking more someone to read over the existing dialogue, or to come to and say "what might she say in this scenario?"
Like for someone like us, it would be fairly minor, but for them doing it alone it would be an awful lot of work. Being able to have someone they can identify as a consultant also means they can point to someone who is actually trans, who has a voice in this, which is important(though generally a lot of shows and stuff pick somewhat problematic people to do it).
Remember too that games aren't like books, they have lots of different people working together and pitching suggestions.
I run Edwin whenever I can - it's a great sidequest
Dont get me wrong, I like the concept of the character, I just think that without a follow up or an introduction to her earlier on its just a bit pointless. If she had a quest to help with her identity or transition or if she was a PC and this talk was part of a romance storyline with the main character, I would completely understand the dialog as it stands but it did nto fit. Hopeully they give her more development and retcon her into the other games but this was done hastly and feels like it was a "hey what havent we added into the game to bring it up to trend?" and they couldnt find a way to add fighting body shaming or lecturing Elminster about his pipe smoking into the game.
(Stop with the "sexual orientation" please, gender identity is not a sexual orientation)
Her current dialogue is fine: charname ask for her name's story their get it. No more no less. I'm totally for add some quest for the character to make that trans character more present in the game. Not to make her current writing more painfull or more "acceptable" in non-trans eyes by adding pain, rejectio, struggle, etc because of transness.
I am very ... uneasy with the fact she must reveal her transidentity only if it's part of a lovestoryline. Event more than the idea having her quest link to the transness ... trans folk exists even if their not in couple ... and there a lot more of problem on writing on transness and romance, it's a very way more complex thing to address (don't get me wrong, i love the idea of a romance option. I hate the idea of a romance option that focus on transness, why it must have to be an issue ?).
Sorry, i'm tired today. Too much only "sexual" or "polical" or "painfull & struggling" view on trans character. Trans characters can exist just because ... their exist ... and there no lore-reason for them to fear or hide themself. Sorry for the mess.
For the mod thing i'll start looking how mod work. I have some programming skill but ... i dunno anything about mod-programming for BG. I also have some idea (not Mizhena linked) but my english aren't enough to write a lot I guess. Or not without a kind and patient rewriter.
If there's one thing you need to know about Mizhena to understand her character it's that she's a priest of Tempus, the Lord of Battles, a deity that encourages fighting no matter the side.
My name is a combined name(name1-name2) and if you ask me why it's so, i'll of course say that it's because that's what my parents agreed to when they divorced. That doesn't make "having divorced parents" my defining trait.
Once again, I suggest you guys play the game some more before trying to mod a character. Pretending that you're knowledgeable enough to know what's best about a character when you haven't even done the few quests that this character relates to seems awfully pretentious and insulting.
I'm very shocked nobody on this controvery talk about the fact she already have side quest ... and i cant found it on youtube ... To be fair i mostly use my time to replay BG1 and jump on BG:SoD with a new character. Why the **** is this controversy if there already side quest linked to Mizhena. Bwarg ... nevermind, i know where it come from.
I think most of people here agree the current Mizhena is great mate, but because Beamdog say that they'll expand her story it still a good thing to discuss. (The mod idea seem more, to me, an idea to increase the lore of the game on this subject)
The second quest is a bit more spoilery.
There is a 3rd quest, still some spoiler:
Every single of these quests involves some dialog with her that's beyond "I need this, give me this" "ok" and her gender is not mentioned in any of these quests either.
The controversy exists because a few people played the game 20 minutes and were outraged by the character, so they made some noise and it ended up being such a big controversy when some groups joined in and made unnecessary noise out of it.
Admittedly, these quests are all fairly "late game" as they happen in the 3rd set of areas but the people complaining probably jumped on forums before going that far into the game. I didn't know of these quests either until I went through my second playthrough because I unintentionnally skipped the 2 quests under spoiler tags and solved the first one in an another way so initially she seemed to me just like one of the multitude of characters that are just there to tell their story as there is many in BG1 and BG2. As I played more, I realised she's more than that and actually has a personnality and a good bit of writing aside from her name dialog.
Now i'm gonna facedesk untill my desk break up to get out all this nosense controversial **** out of my head.
(So i'm totaly wondering what the dev team will do a an expandation with this new informations)
Still it would be great to see her as party member or more have a dedicated sub-plot, I guess.
I think there a lot of good things on this thread
But it's not really the subject of the topic. There people here interrested in opening a new on this subject and sharing idea / remark / critics ?
(Not necessary in the goal to make a mod or nothing. Just for the sharing idea experience. Beside some obvious troll this is the first time I have online a so indeep intelligent conversation with people about how talk on this subject in the Realms-lore)
Now if people screamed about children being in the game, tried to destroy the company for their inclusion and then posted videos about killing children then I'm sure it would upset people as well.
I'm even more ambivalent about changing her now, but I'm hoping whatever changes they do make don't smack of appeasement or temperance. The character was fine.
Due to the fact the answer was really nice i keep very good hope on the team work. I don't realy know what changes Beamdog will do, but untill it was release out i try keep positive spirit.
I mean, I even like the idea of a transition-related quest tbqh! Personally, I feel like people who felt like that one exchange with an NPC involved in multiple quests where her trans identity wasn't mentioned at all was "an agenda being jammed down their throat" should be forced to deal with more trans content since anything short of removing her wasn't going to make them happy...but maybe that's just me as a bitter trans person who doesn't care about people who'd rather not have to encounter trans people in their media lmao