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There will be a twitch session with Trent and Phillip on Thursday, April, 21

JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,635
Gregory A. Wilson, a Professor of English at St. John's University in New York City, will speak with Trent Oster and Phillip Daigle about SoD on his twitch channel.



The twitch channel is

illathidsparkleavGenderNihilismGirdletypo_tillylolienkaguanabrus00zim00Nonnahswriter
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Comments

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,611
    they still need to post the launch stream on youtube.

    Garmsparkleav00zim00
  • BelegCuthalionBelegCuthalion Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 451
    @rody: i agree fully, - still it is interesting to see your post revolves almost 100% around this topic qlone, somewhat proving it is still matters quite much.

    Ayiekie
  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    if it does become a debate about it, it will be a pr nightmare. people are fed up with this lgbt-whatever nonsense.

  • CalemyrCalemyr Member Posts: 226
    edited April 2016
    Yeah. If it goes beyond a "We did it, it wasn't well received, we'll work to improve it." I don't think it will go well for Beamdog. Far as I can tell, the fervor has died down, but it wouldn't take much to rile people up again. One careless word could do immense damage, but I don't know any way they could help their cause by addressing further.

    Talking about the release overall, and future plans to improve the entire Infinity line, would be pretty interesting. A postmortem of the 2.0 design decisions (black outline, map and journal overhauls, menu changes, etc) would also be really cool.

    Better yet, a conversation on the complications of morality in fantasy would be quite fitting in a game where the antagonist is a lawful good aasimar and the hero is the free-willed child of an evil god. Or the narrative impact of player agency vs out-of-control events like Boarskyre Bridge, that would be interesting.

    Or the challenges of adding new elements (NPCs, quests, all of SoD) to an established and cherished tradition like Baldur's Gate, I'd love to hear a discussion on that. Or about trying to find a justifiable way to shoe-horn BG2's canon party into the open-ended party that BG1 closed on.

    There are so many ways that could be interesting, but I am sick to everloving death of talk regarding Mizhena.

    typo_tilly
  • TrudeauIsSantaTrudeauIsSanta Member Posts: 161
    edited April 2016
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    sparkleavtypo_tilly
  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    edited April 2016

    @Purudaya I think geselle meant that people are fed-up with having to deal with pr crisis where they should be enjoying a game and discussing it enthusiastically here on its forum, rather than people are fed-up of the LGBT community. Personnaly, I can agree to that. Beamdog and its fans should have been celebrating their victory and instead, look what we got. Many gamers (outside the fan-base) doubt the franchise can reclaim its former glory. Some even doubt it ever existed to begin with and dismiss it as a marketing stunt. That glory is the goal that should be pursued. Society will have to deal with its issues on its own terms, Beamdog is already over-busy as it is.

    Correct. Society's stance on the lgbt issue will be decided outside of games, gamers are fed up with getting dragged into it, via slammed with token characters etc, that reflect the cultural stance of the developers. Some people don't want token characters in the game, which is understandable, others (me) don't want to deal with the simultaneous backlash from the latter.
    There is no winning in playing the cultural game, you can only diminish your target audience this way.

    Also on a side note, most people i know were indifferent towards lgbt-people, but with increased spotlight tolerance now turns to adversity.

    [Deleted User]RawgrimZaferick
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2016
    geselle said:

    @Purudaya I think geselle meant that people are fed-up with having to deal with pr crisis where they should be enjoying a game and discussing it enthusiastically here on its forum, rather than people are fed-up of the LGBT community. Personnaly, I can agree to that. Beamdog and its fans should have been celebrating their victory and instead, look what we got. Many gamers (outside the fan-base) doubt the franchise can reclaim its former glory. Some even doubt it ever existed to begin with and dismiss it as a marketing stunt. That glory is the goal that should be pursued. Society will have to deal with its issues on its own terms, Beamdog is already over-busy as it is.

    Correct. Society's stance on the lgbt issue will be decided outside of games, gamers are fed up with getting dragged into it, via slammed with token characters etc, that reflect the cultural stance of the developers. Some people don't want token characters in the game, which is understandable, others (me) don't want to deal with the simultaneous backlash from the latter.
    There is no winning in playing the cultural game, you can only diminish your target audience this way.

    Also on a side note, most people i know were indifferent towards lgbt-people, but with increased spotlight tolerance now turns to adversity.
    I was going to retract my earlier quote as a misread, but I'll argue that even people in the gaming community (if there is such a thing) are becoming increasingly open and accepting. There's been a tendency for people who perceive tokenism here or elsewhere to try and speak for all gamers, which I think is problematic because we're definitely not a monolithic group. I for one am happy when I see efforts at inclusion by games and I've been deeply heartened to find many people here and on review websites who hold the same view. If there's a backlash, I see one group to blame - those who view inclusion through a cynical (and yes, in some cases hateful) lens.

    There is no cultural stance being pushed by Beamdog - the acknowledgment that trans people exist and the depiction of them in media is not a political "position," it's a reflection of social reality. Gay, bi, and lesbian characters went through this exact same backlash back in the mid 2000s with people complaining of "tokenism" and "political agendas." As society became more accepting, these characters became less controversial - the same *will* happen with trans characters, but representation and inclusion are part of that process. The only agenda or cultural stance being pushed here from the beginning is that of gamergate: in ten years we will not be having this conversation and it will be a different form of inclusion that they'll be complaining about.

    The "culture wars" are being fought outside of the gaming world, not within. Games are just a reflection of which side is winning.

    illathidtypo_tillyNonnahswriter
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited April 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    sparkleavAvenger_teambg
  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    It doesn't matter, if beamdog tried to push a cultural stance or not, rather how it was received. And in this regard beamdog is considered guilty of pushing an agenda.

    Also lgb people were around earlier, correct. But they were "invisible" as in, you heard of them, they existed in tv, news but you weren't confronting them at every turn. They were silent, or at least overlooked, so most people didn't bother, except some diehard conservatives. This might change however, because societies don't get more accepting per se, it's a cultural struggle, and just because modern societies are getting more accepting, it doesn't mean it is a one way ticket towards universal acceptance, especially if you look at history it should be clear societies can make an abrupt U-turn.

    Games are not the reflection of the winning side, they are the reflection of the developers.

  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2016
    geselle said:

    It doesn't matter, if beamdog tried to push a cultural stance or not, rather how it was received. And in this regard beamdog is considered guilty of pushing an agenda.

    Also lgb people were around earlier, correct. But they were "invisible" as in, you heard of them, they existed in tv, news but you weren't confronting them at every turn. They were silent, or at least overlooked, so most people didn't bother, except some diehard conservatives. This might change however, because societies don't get more accepting per se, it's a cultural struggle, and just because modern societies are getting more accepting, it doesn't mean it is a one way ticket towards universal acceptance, especially if you look at history it should be clear societies can make an abrupt U-turn.

    Games are not the reflection of the winning side, they are the reflection of the developers.

    There are times when societies make abrupt U-turns when it comes to social issues, yes - America once outlawed the death penalty only to bring it back a few years later. We used to value a strong social safety net after the New Deal, but reversed much of that with the ideology of individualism that arose in the 80's. But we don't often make huge U-turns when it comes to civil rights - just as black folks will never be content to move backward and gay/lesbian folks are never going back into the closet, society is only going to become less derisive and dismissive of the trans experience, not more.

    Wikipedia has a great timeline of LGBTQ representation in video games which, imo, clearly parallels concurrent social attitudes. Games have always been reflective of a sea change in this area and in fact have generally been slower than other media in doing so.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_characters_in_video_games

    sparkleavtypo_tilly
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    Trent & Phillip.....sounds like victim 3 and 5 in a Friday the 13th movie. Very off-topic, I know.

    typo_tilly
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,635
    I've asked Gregory about the time of the twitch - "EDT" he mentions in the tweet is "Eastern Daylight Time".

    Thursday, 8:30 PM EDT = Friday, 0:30 GMT.

    lolienmf2112
  • JumJumJumJum Member Posts: 6
    edited April 2016
    Rody said:

    IMHO, I seriously hope this doesn't become an hour long debate whether or not a transgender character may or may not be included in the game or the developers' posts / interview.

    I know these topics will be covered, but should take like 5min tops - maybe talk a bit about improving the story of the trans character (quest maybe?) and allowing interaction in full (good, nice, uninterested, bad or offensive) and regarding posts / interview, maybe just a quick message that the game intends to be with diversity but neutral, i.e., letting the player have the experience the player wants.

    Covering this possibly "mandatory/unavoidable" portion of the interview, the discussion should then only focus on bugs and patches, improvements to UI, improvements to modding, improving the story (and allowing further options of interaction of different alignments) and plans for a next game.

    Giving more than 5 min for the trans / interview above will only make the debate around the game continue to center into accusations of "political agenda" and that is only bad for the fans as it is not striving to improve the game.

    Just my two cents.

    What I want to know is just what you said, ui improvements, bugs, whats coming next etc etc. I want more Baldur's Gate.

    Also awww, middle of the night for me. I wanted to ask questions. :(

    lolien
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,635
    JumJum said:


    Also awww, middle of the night for me.

    For me as well. I asked if the record of the session will be available on the twitch.

    brussparkleavrapsam2003lolien
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    edited April 2016
    I'll be live commenting a bit in here

    I should point out ill be paraphrasing a bit

    GarmAutequitypo_tilly
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Trent - doesnt make sense to make BG3 as a project in infinity engine
    - SoD initially intended to be a 4 or 5 hours adventure,

    lolienJuliusBorisovtypo_tilly
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    - expanded the adventure and budget midway through

    lolienJuliusBorisovtypo_tillykaguana
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Phil D
    - Initial sketch and plan of adventure was much larger than it was even now

    lolienJuliusBorisovtypo_tillykaguana
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    -Initially was going to be a DLC, but then as expanded, considered makeing it stand alone.
    -Phil always wanted it to be standalone

    lolienJuliusBorisovtypo_tilly
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    -it's really an expansion pack rather than DLC. DLC is a little misleading

    lolienJuliusBorisovtypo_tillykaguana
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Trent:
    -GOG and Beamdog promote it well, kind of buried on steam since it is listed as DLC

    lolienJuliusBorisovtypo_tillykaguana
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    -I feel we are getting ready to do something on our own

    lolienJuliusBorisovtypo_tillykaguana
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    - have been developing the scope of what we can do as a company

    lolienJuliusBorisovtypo_tillykaguana
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Phil:
    - Most challenging technical aspect was the UI

    lolienJuliusBorisovtypo_tillykaguana
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