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Beamdog, please, release bug fixes and not cripple the game

BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 212
in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
Dear developers at Beamdog,

I don't understand what you are trying to achieve with incomplete bug-fixes, regression and poor testing. You're going to annoy more players with updates like that.

The "Dual Class" procedure has been broken as cancelling it damaged the character and removed weapon proficiency points ( http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/22374 ). The wrong and incomplete fix in v2.1.63.2 simply disabled the initial "Back" button. You could still break the character later with a "Cancel" button.

Now in the new v2.2.64.1 beta, more of the "Back" buttons have been disabled and the final "Cancel" button has been removed. Seriously? It is April 30th, not April 1st. Even clicking the "Dual Class" button accidentally or curiously, you now can no longer back out of the process? You must be kidding!

Additionally, there is an unexpanded weapon proficiencies label in the character record. Has nobody noticed? Why release such a beta to the public at all, if it breaks new things again?

And to give some background in this post, so far I've told annoyed players to be patient and wait for the next updates from you, but that will become much more troublesome with such poor half-hearted fixes.

Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited April 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 212
    v2.1.63.2 is not a beta.

    Nothing good will come out of another update that will cause more regression and annoy more players. Hence this bit of drama here. These updates give the impression that they are messing up the game further.

    Top priority on multi-player sounds dubious, because if the players from the Steam forum are to be believed, multi-player is broken completely (unless you find some inconvenient work-arounds).
  • fkirenicusfkirenicus Member Posts: 331
    edited April 2016
    Today's players don't give an intercourse about such things. As long as the UI gives them giggles and a warm fuzzy feeling they're happy. Changes for the sake of changes is good, no matter how well (or not well) they are implemented. To use their favorite expression: "you are a whiner who want to bring Beamdog down".
    And this was a sarcastic post.
  • resoundresound Member Posts: 2
    Loaded v2.2.64.1. Completely broke multiplayer. Nice job Beamdog! Worst game development ever.
  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 212
    Some people at Beamdog need to wake up.

    Enough of the negative reviews are because of bugs the reviewers have run into, such as multi-player not working. I also had hoped they would focus on fixing bugs and quickly release some quality updates (or even hot-fixes), but instead it seems they like putting customer confidence at risk.

    The new spell book is still broken in v2.2.64.1, too, and clicking through the spells which to learn often still unselects them immediately. Clicking them with the right mouse-button is a temporary work-around, but hey, you cannot be happy with that compared with v1.3. Or do your in-house testers and QA people never use the spell book?
  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 212
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/228280/

    User reviews:
    RECENT: Mixed (531 reviews)
    OVERALL: Very Positive (2,679 reviews)

    The bugs in v2.0 and the v2.1 are really starting to backfire as reviewers are fed up with some of the new bugs and regressions in BGEE.

    It's sad to observe that.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    The developers are doing exactly that - fixing bugs.

    This is not an easy and/or fast process. There're not too many critical bugs in either BGEE, SoD or BG2EE, and with each build their number is becoming less, not more.

    The beta is the beta i.e. it's designed to help find more bugs, test things and make a final release better.

    As for the steam reviews section, it doesn't show anything - the recent section covers a month, and SoD (and the 2.0 version) was released only a month ago. Everything will become better with time.
  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 212
    bengoshi said:

    The beta is the beta i.e. it's designed to help find more bugs, test things and make a final release better.

    v2.1.63.2 is not a beta. It is an official update released to all.

    Let me make bug http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/22374 my pet peeve then. The bug is claimed to be fixed in v2.1.63.2, but it isn't. Players continue to run into it, messing up their dual-class characters.

    If v2.2.64.1 will be released unchanged related to bug 22374, the feedback won't be pretty. Imagine you click the "DUAL CLASS" button without prior saving. No way to cancel the process. Not even an initial warning with an early option to back out.
  • TheArtisan TheArtisan Member Posts: 3,277
    Belfaldurnik said:

    If v2.2.64.1 will be released unchanged related to bug 22374, the feedback won't be pretty. Imagine you click the "DUAL CLASS" button without prior saving. No way to cancel the process. Not even an initial warning with an early option to back out.

    Do you already know that's what's going to happen? No? Then why are you already complaining about it? It hasn't even been released yet for f***'s sake.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    None of their fixes have crippled the game or otherwise made it unplayable. Stop the pointless whining.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    Belfaldurnik said:

    Imagine you click the "DUAL CLASS" button without prior saving. No way to cancel the process. Not even an initial warning with an early option to back out.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhq-yO1KN8
  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 212
    Artemius_I said:

    Do you already know that's what's going to happen?

    Wake up! That's the entire point of this topic. Compared with v2.1, which was supposed to fix it according to the bug tracker, the current beta still doesn't fix it, and removing more buttons cripples the game as explained. It would be ill-advised not to do anything about it.

    Last beta before 2.1.63.2 release was 2.1.63.1, so I don't freaking see any evidence to believe that the release process would change for 2.2.64.1. Hence this topic.
    rapsam2003 said:

    Stop the pointless whining.

    It's certainly not pointless after all the crap and madness I've experienced at the Steam forum. Just because I've not spent much time here instead, doesn't imply I don't know what I'm talking about.

    Whining would be something different.
  • SelabocSelaboc Member Posts: 64
    As annoying as that bug may be, if that's your idea of a "game crippling" bug, than frankly in the words of Inigo montoya "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Belfaldurnik said:

    It's certainly not pointless after all the crap and madness I've experienced at the Steam forum. Just because I've not spent much time here instead, doesn't imply I don't know what I'm talking about.

    Whining would be something different.

    It's very much pointless. You're saying things ARE TOTALLY BROKEN, when the responses in this thread prove that's just not true. What implies you don't know what you're talking about is not your lack of time here; rather, it's the fact that you insist on making an inaccurate, wide-sweeping claim.

  • fkirenicusfkirenicus Member Posts: 331
    rapsam2003 said:

    None of their fixes have crippled the game or otherwise made it unplayable. Stop the pointless whining.

    So my answer to this trolling was deleted. Tell me, mod, do you find it OK that people who have something they are less than satisfied with are basically being told to shut up, that their views aren't valid - more often than not in very rude manner, like "stop the pointless whining" above?
    Could we have an answer please?
  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 212
    edited May 2016
    Guys, if this the best the community here at beamdog's forum can come up with, I'll go and delete my positive reviews for these games at Steam. So far, you are no better than those mad rambling and derailing folks over there.
    Selaboc said:

    As annoying as that bug may be, if that's your idea of a "game crippling" bug,

    Yes, it damages characters, resets/deletes skills and applies other forms of damage to a character. Still with the released v2.1 update, too, which is not a beta release. Hence this thread.
    rapsam2003 said:

    You're saying things ARE TOTALLY BROKEN

    Don't shout, and no, I didn't say that. I explicitly pointed out a bad bug with another pathetic fix attempt in the current beta.

    The rest of your overly aggressive post is a shame. Or would you deny that the v2.0 and v2.1 updates caused regression, contained non-working fixes and introduced new bugs?
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    Everyone who signed in this forum has to follow the site rules. http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/10852/site-rules-mind-the-gap. Read it carefully and stop personal attacks here.
    Belfaldurnik said:

    Now in the new v2.2.64.1 beta, more of the "Back" buttons have been disabled and the final "Cancel" button has been removed. Seriously? It is April 30th, not April 1st. Even clicking the "Dual Class" button accidentally or curiously, you now can no longer back out of the process?

    You should report it as a separate bug, found in version 2.2.64.1. So that the developers could fix this new bug.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Everyone's entitled to post their opinions about the game as long as they do so while following the site rules; that also applies to responding to those opinions. If there are bugs, we definitely don't want players to stick their heads in the sand and ignore them; that doesn't help us fix the bugs in question.

    Regarding the dual-classing issue, we're looking into ways to more permanently address it. What you see in the v2.2 beta isn't the final solution.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Belfaldurnik said:

    rapsam2003 said:

    You're saying things ARE TOTALLY BROKEN

    Don't shout, and no, I didn't say that. I explicitly pointed out a bad bug with another pathetic fix attempt in the current beta.
    You said:
    Belfaldurnik said:


    The "Dual Class" procedure has been broken as cancelling it damaged the character and removed weapon proficiency points ( http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/22374 ). The wrong and incomplete fix in v2.1.63.2 simply disabled the initial "Back" button. You could still break the character later with a "Cancel" button.

    The reality is that it's not broken. What's "broken" is how you're using the feature. What should ALWAYS be done is the following:
    1. One should read the Manual to understand what "Dual Classing" even is, if one does NOT understand it.
    2. Quick save before deciding to dual class.
    3. Have an idea of what your dual class plan is beforehand.
    Your complaint essentially boils down to "You removed the button that allowed me to be lazy".
  • fkirenicusfkirenicus Member Posts: 331
    edited May 2016
    "Everyone who signed in this forum has to follow the site rules. http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/10852/site-rules-mind-the-gap. Read it carefully and stop personal attacks here."

    Or were those empty words? Why is the individual above allowed to continue in such rude manner?
    Post edited by fkirenicus on
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    The "Flag" feature is useful for reporting posts that you think violate the site rules. I recommend using that rather than calling people out in the middle of the thread.

    @rapsam2003 , there are kinder ways to convey the information you're posting; I recommend exploring them.
  • SelabocSelaboc Member Posts: 64
    edited May 2016
    Belfaldurnik said:


    Selaboc said:

    As annoying as that bug may be, if that's your idea of a "game crippling" bug,

    Yes, it damages characters, resets/deletes skills and applies other forms of damage to a character. Still with the released v2.1 update, too, which is not a beta release. Hence this thread.
    I'm sorry, but you are blowing it way out of proportion. While I agree that it's an annoying bug that should be fixed (and fixed properly), it's hardly game breaking*. Most people will never ever encounter it because:
    Dual classing is a voluntary process that you can complete successfully, most people don't click on the dual classing button unless they intend to dual class and they will follow the dual class process to it's completion, once they've made the decision to dual class.

    And if by some misfortune, they do end up encountering the bug, they can always go back to their last pre-dual class save, which at worst will be the last time the game auto-saved (so only their progress on the current board is lost) at best it's a quick save that most game-players routinely do on a frequent basis.

    * A game crippling/breaking bug is one where you can't continue the game because of the bug. For example if the game crashes every time you try to enter an area that you need to complete in order to move forward in the game. A bug that you can easily avoid (such as the dual class bug) and can easily recover from (thanks to the handy "save" feature) is *NOT* game breaking no matter how much it personally annoys you.
  • TheArtisan TheArtisan Member Posts: 3,277
    In the OP's defense, most people won't notice their loss of stats until they need to use them and fail, and by that point it's probably too late. I still think what OP's doing is pointless and unjustified given that he's bashing a change in a beta release for a bug that the devs are very much aware of. Complaining every day and making threats is just flat out immature and self-centered.
  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 212
    rapsam2003 said:

    The reality is that it's not broken. What's "broken" is how you're using the feature.

    Are you kidding? What in "you can still break the character later with the 'Cancel' button?" do you fail to understand? The current implementation of the game code is broken in that it modifies your character but doesn't revert those modifications when you click "Back", or "Cancel" at the end. Players ask about that not only in Steam's forum, and not all notice that their character has been damaged.
    rapsam2003 said:


    One should read the Manual to understand what "Dual Classing" even is, if one does NOT understand it.
    Quick save before deciding to dual class.
    Have an idea of what your dual class plan is beforehand.
    That's a very short-sighted way to put it compared with v1.3 and how it could be done. Would you also remove all "Back" buttons from the character creation screens and force players to complete all steps before they could reach the main menu of the game again?
    rapsam2003 said:


    Your complaint essentially boils down to "You removed the button that allowed me to be lazy".

    You don't get it. It boils down to "please don't make it worse than before - fix it for good, and don't p*ss off players with half-hearted fixes or updates causing regression".
    Selaboc said:

    I'm sorry, but you are blowing it way out of proportion.

    Oh, to make something entirely clear, you don't need to be sorry. Tell that the players, who have been hit by that bug and ended up with a corrupted character missing weapon skills, for example. Some very annoying "WTF?" moments for them. Your attempt at lecturing me about what is "game breaking" is inappropriate, because I've not even used the term "game breaking". You've read something into the few short posts that isn't to be found in them. Removing features, such as confirmation dialogs, or removing/disabling buttons is crippling the game. It is embarrassing to even release an update with a "Back" button that cannot be clicked.

    So, when I see/meet players, who are affected by the bug (and its symptoms), all I can add is "yes, they've messed up that part of the game".
  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 212
    Artemius_I said:

    he's bashing a change in a beta release for a bug that the devs are very much aware of.

    It's v2.0 and v2.1 that are broken, and what the v2.2 beta does about it pathetic. I will take a look at today's new beta later.
    Artemius_I said:

    Complaining every day and making threats is just flat out immature and self-centered.

    Congratulations, you've managed to post a superfluous insult that made me delete my positive reviews at Steam.

  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    Dude, while I think people are being overly harsh to you in this thread and that you have a valid concern, no one made you delete your positive reviews but you. If another fan can encourage you to do that, then that's your choice.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    edited May 2016
    Let me try to undo the damage:

    Complaining every day and making threats is extremely mature and altruistic.

    Will you put your reviews back up now?
  • fkirenicusfkirenicus Member Posts: 331
    joluv said:

    Let me try to undo the damage:

    Complaining every day and making threats is extremely mature and altruistic.

    Will you put your reviews back up now?

    "I get it. You're one of The Clueless."
    - The Nameless One
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    Ok, you all have been warned before about stopping discussing each other. Thread closed.
This discussion has been closed.

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