Mmm... mind flayers? Wait no, you can crush a whole city of them with a single spell Mmm... beholders? Wait no, you can crush a whole city of them with a single item Mmm... vampires? Wait no, you can crush a whole city of them with a single spell... or a single item
I'll vote for anything that is able to cast Imprisonment, myself.
Sure, there is a spell able to prevent it, but you can only target the caster with it, leaving all your other companions really vulnerable... also, this spell just ignore all defenses and need a very painful process to recover from (level 9 spell, then recruit the companion once more)
Mmm... mind flayers? Wait no, you can crush a whole city of them with a single spell Mmm... beholders? Wait no, you can crush a whole city of them with a single item Mmm... vampires? Wait no, you can crush a whole city of them with a single spell... or a single item
- Illithids are uttertly powerless against Mordenkanein's Sword. This summon just doesn't have a brain, so it's immune to confusion, domination, devour brain, and psionics. To sum it up: There is absolutly NOTHING an illithid can do to get rid of this summon in the vanilla version of the game... I destroyed every illithid in the game with it and never took a single damage point when fightning Illithids. What's better? This summon cannot be damaged by Umber Hulks too, so even Illithid's pet falls against it
- Beholders are really weak against any character with the Shield of Balduran This shield that can be bought in the Adventurer Mart just turn back their own rays against them. The only threat remaining are when Elder Orb try to cast Imprisonment on the shield bearer, but you can run in circle around them so they will never get in range, and every range attack they will throw at the character will harm themselves instead. Better: Put Jaheira on "ranged attacked" IA, give her the Firetooth dagger and the Shield of Balduran, and go take a coffee while your computer clear a beholder lair without your help
- Vampires are weak creatures once you wear the Amulet of Power This amulet prevent Level Drain, and besides that, it only takes a bit of saves throws to cancel their dominating powers. If you can't kill vampires once immune to Level Drain, you just messed up something. The same can be achieved with the Negative Plane Protection spell, with Dorn, or with a Wish... vampires are only a threat if you don't know what you are looking for to defend against their powers
Damn, I guessed one out of three. My guesses were: Chaotic commands against mind flayers, I got Shield of Balduran correctly, and Daystar for vampires.
Damn, I guessed one out of three. My guesses were: Chaotic commands against mind flayers, I got Shield of Balduran correctly, and Daystar for vampires.
Alas, chaotic commands does not prevent Devour brain. But similarly to Sword of Mordenkainen you may use Animate Dead. It's not as good against Umber Hulks but if you send a batch of them they'll tank long enough for you to dispatch the Umber Hulks, and then the illithids are powerless.
Alas, chaotic commands does not prevent Devour brain.
Yeah, but I think Devour brain isn't much of a problem as long as you're not stunned, so for me Chaotic commands were usually enough, especially if you are hasted or have access to whirlwind.
The illithid is easy to kill if you have a berserker with high AC. He will be immune to the stun effects from the psionic blast, and with high AC the Illithids won't hit him very often, at least not alone. Illithids have very bad THAC0 but they got about 3-4 attacks per round. So raise the AC as good as you can for your berskers or someone with an item equiped that blocks stun effects.
The answer to all your questions is, as always, dwarf berzerker or fighter/cleric with negative save rolls :P
It is true, but awfuly specific. I was speaking of giving solutions that almost every party can use
This is the core problem of Imprisonement too. There are ways to counter it... but those ways will not find their way in every party. You need a berzerker or a mage strong enough in melee to hold the first line without dying... and this is why it is for me more "hateable" than illithids and beholders that 90% of the party can hard-counter
The answer to all your questions is, as always, dwarf berzerker or fighter/cleric with negative save rolls :P
It is true, but awfuly specific. I was speaking of giving solutions that almost every party can use
This is the core problem of Imprisonement too. There are ways to counter it... but those ways will not find their way in every party. You need a berzerker or a mage strong enough in melee to hold the first line without dying... and this is why it is for me more "hateable" than illithids and beholders
I guess that comes with SCS installed, or tactics or whatever. I've never encountered anything else (Other than Kangaxx obviously) that casts imprisonment. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The answer to all your questions is, as always, dwarf berzerker or fighter/cleric with negative save rolls
It is true, but awfuly specific. I was speaking of giving solutions that almost every party can u This is the core problem of Imprisonement too. There are ways to counter it... but those ways will not find their way in every party. You need a berzerker or a mage strong enough in melee to hold the first line without dying... and this is why it is for me more "hateable" than illithids and beholders
I guess that comes with SCS installed, or tactics or whatever. I've never encountered anything else (Other than Kangaxx obviously) that casts imprisonment. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Kangaxx, the demilich in WK and elder orbs can cast Imprisonment. And I know the fake Korkorran of Hexxat's quest has it memorized (Since one of the way of debugging the quest is taking control of the lich with Turn Undead and having it cast Imprisonment on itself) but it has never cast it on me.
The answer to all your questions is, as always, dwarf berzerker or fighter/cleric with negative save rolls :P
It is true, but awfuly specific. I was speaking of giving solutions that almost every party can use
This is the core problem of Imprisonement too. There are ways to counter it... but those ways will not find their way in every party. You need a berzerker or a mage strong enough in melee to hold the first line without dying... and this is why it is for me more "hateable" than illithids and beholders
I guess that comes with SCS installed, or tactics or whatever. I've never encountered anything else (Other than Kangaxx obviously) that casts imprisonment. Correct me if I'm wrong.
This is indeed rare, and I would say: hopefuly!
However, the topic is not about what is the most frequent, but the most hated. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I do believe there is very few things that players hate most than getting hit by a successful imprisonement
SCS lets you pick and choose a lot when it comes to mind flayers and beholders. There are 5 options each varying from vanilla but with smarter AI to something like improved anvil settings.
Elder orbs are my favorite, something with anti-magic ray, save or die rays and imprisonment is something you need to respect on a no-reload run. Also death spell does funny things to summons..
Alhoons are also pretty lethal.
I'm just glad you never have to fight Alhoons and elder orbs at the same time..
I really hate fighting the illithids/Mind Flayers because each and every fight will require summoning and buffing up a tank. Especially in the Mind flayer "city" as the Githyanki calls it, there is a lot of encounters with them, the battle last like 1 minute and the buffing takes around 30-40 seconds. They are not hard, just extremely annoying at some times.
In ToB, there's a really fantastic sword that makes you immune to Mind Flayers and all they can do. So I just give it to Sarevok, buff him up a bit, and send him in.
Yes I know, but you can't have that sword before The Underdark, sadly.
The answer to all your questions is, as always, dwarf berzerker or fighter/cleric with negative save rolls
It is true, but awfuly specific. I was speaking of giving solutions that almost every party can use
This is the core problem of Imprisonement too. There are ways to counter it... but those ways will not find their way in every party. You need a berzerker or a mage strong enough in melee to hold the first line without dying... and this is why it is for me more "hateable" than illithids and beholders that 90% of the party can hard-counter
I was joking of course, hence the smiley. However, referring to the Shield of Balduran as 'best practice' for killing beholdes is not without opposition. It's often called the "shield of cheese" for a reason and there are other, reliable ways to take them out without cheesing it out with that shield. Summons, being one of the most common ones.
Well, the other solution is: Send them Rasaad. He will just negate 90% of their rays if you used him correctly, and punch them into oblivion in no time. Except if he gets hits by Imprisonment, naturaly.
The illithid is easy to kill if you have a berserker with high AC. He will be immune to the stun effects from the psionic blast, and with high AC the Illithids won't hit him very often, at least not alone. Illithids have very bad THAC0 but they got about 3-4 attacks per round. So raise the AC as good as you can for your berskers or someone with an item equiped that blocks stun effects.
good thing crits are here to save the day and completely make AC irrelevant.
i guess my game is bugged since i get critted by virtually anything 25% of the time
I was joking of course, hence the smiley. However, referring to the Shield of Balduran as 'best practice' for killing beholdes is not without opposition. It's often called the "shield of cheese" for a reason and there are other, reliable ways to take them out without cheesing it out with that shield. Summons, being one of the most common ones.
I recommend you try this with SCS' improved calls for help component
Combat is the worst part of BG2. It requires tedious micromanagement, the UI is not really suitable for controlling multiple characters, the characters often ignore commands and interfere with each other, and there is just way too much fighting. If SCS makes combat require more player attention, it just makes the game worse for me. On the other hand, it might be interesting with a mod that removes 90-95% of the battles and adjusts the XP awards accordingly.
I've unfortunately never played tabletop DnD but like the idea of it. It seems more detail oriented and focus on skills and interactions as much as combat. That's hard to translate into a computer game, especially when the tendency is to continually offer more and more challenging combat even if that means we're fighting twenty liches in Athkatla by the end of SoA.
I've used one of SimDing0's mods that allows me to reduce experience point awards, whether for quests, scribing scrolls, disarming traps, or enemy kills. That helps slow the level gains, although the game becomes more challenging by the end since the game can only scale down its encounters so much. My party was automatically leveled up at the start of ToB because it didn't meet the minimum level requirements, despite me doing most SoA quests.
I would like a mod where everything in SoA was depowered and levels were gained more slowly. Rather than just increase the power levels of enemies or improve their AI, just don't let the combat get to such high levels so quickly. I'm not sure how ToB would work, then, since it's basically just spamming HLAs for five hours, but then I'm not a huge fan of it, anyway.
E.g. have Bhodi's vampire lair in Chapter 3 only have the three vampires we stake, and the rest be ghast thralls. Don't have hordes of orcs, wolfweres, mummies, and vampires in Firkraag's lair, just have orcs (and the troll chef!)
Ah beholders so amazingly fierce and difficult to fight.
If only the AI for them was smarter they'd realize that their eye beams are not affecting you because of the shield and float away or just scream for an elder to come and imprison you. Here is a tale for you:
There was once a brave fighter named Ginthakeyn the Brave aka Gin and he wasn't the smartest individual in the world but was really brave and thought he could clear the beholder lair and rid the world of some evil so taking the shield of balduran from his sack he equipped it and charged in. Gin had fought many battles and was a veteran adventurer since leaving Candlekeep, his god infused blood allowed him to fight with ease and power against the most powerful of foes since adventuring in Amn. Gin moved proudly and confidently through the lair using not an ounce of secrecy - he stood proud and he challenged the eye tyrants in their own city to come and do battle against him.
The first few battles went as expected the beholders fell right and left to the shield of cheese and the Gin the Brave didn't even have to lift a finger much less unsheathed his sword. He walked slowly through the lair confident in his shield, his eyes daring any to approach, his stance was confident and almost cocky. He arrived at another section of the lair his companion so very far away and meet with a horde of beholders. He smiled the wicked smile he got with the success he had already achieved with the shield and beckoned them forward his eyes saying come and fight me if you dare. The beholders move together 7 or 8 of them maybe more with the little gauths and the battle went well, if it could even be called a battle. They died by the score and the city streets of the beholder was littered with corpses. He stood defiant in the face of overwhelming fire power the walls and ground shock with power but nothing touched him. The rays flashed back and he smiled and almost laughed at them, he would rid the world of these eye tyrants. The beholders started to fall and die all around him at last figuring out that there rays were actually killing themselves but with no other recourse they continued and more fell to the ground there blackened bodies a testament to their own power. When another group showed up and this one had a big floating eye with it larger then the rest. Gin smiled another to fall to his shield the bigger the better and his legend would sing through out history as the Beholder Slayer; beholder mothers would scare children with tales about him and he would be inspire fear among the eye tyrants. The latest group attacked with the same futile beams and Gin smiled no mere beholder regardless of the size would defeat him and he laughed for the first time at their futility.
Back at the entrance carefully hidden away the rest of the party started to wonder and worry where had Gin gone and why was he taking so long. Aerie took a moment and cast wizard eye to try and spot Gin, and what she saw was a horrible remains of the tyrants, the eye followed the string of corpses the littered the ground until the flashes of battle was spotted ahead. She watched as the latest group of beholders included an elder - she recognized them from her study and worry filled her gaze.
Gin stood proudly and arrogantly among the beholders as they totally surrounded him and he laughing at them - egging them on to blast him - he seemed crazed, his eyes shone with the light of madness at the power he possessed, this was the madness all those that possessed too much power had. Aerie watched concerned in her eyes, if Gin ascended or fell to the intoxication of power that was in his blood would he become what he is now - a man or god wallowing and enjoying his power of destruction, she wondered or maybe even worse if this was a sign of things to come.
Aerie watched the battle, narrating what was happening to the party when her eyes opened a little in horror. The elder orb getting tired of firing his useless beams began mouthing an incantation and Gin the clueless bastard continued to taunt and laugh at them egging them to blast him not realizing what was about to happen. As the battle continued Gin laughed his eyes sparkled and his proud stance continued - he taunted them saying he would slay them all, he would be their bogeyman and they would know fear for once in their lives. He laughed mockingly when he finally noticed that the orbs suddenly ceased to fire and only the little gauths continued. He looked around and as his eyes locked with the eyes of the large orb that had ceased firing a while back, the eye smiled - if one could say a beholder could smile - it spoke the last word and Gin looked around not realizing what was happening, light shaped as a cage formed around him suddenly and he looked at them with incomprehension assuming another beam attack only to realize too late he was caught, his laughter ceased and sudden horror realization filled the stench filled lair, and as Gin disappeared from sight the beholders had the last laugh.
Far away Aerie watched with horror at the outcome, narrating what had just happened to her fellow party members. The shock their heads sadly and with bemusement at such an ending before quietly taking their leave of the Beholder city and the Underdark. And adventure to be had and tales to be told as the party left the Underdark to return to their own lives but as tales would be told of the Hero of Baldurs Gate perhaps the ultimate fate and demise of the Hero as he went against the Beholder City would get a slightly different ending when they told the story again.
The moral of the story - beholders are also mages don't get too cocky even with the shield of cheese.
However, referring to the Shield of Balduran as 'best practice' for killing beholdes is not without opposition. It's often called the "shield of cheese" for a reason and there are other, reliable ways to take them out without cheesing it out with that shield. Summons, being one of the most common ones.
Sending in summons alone, is also cheese...
I did beat the Cult of the Eyeless without either tactic, by getting the jump on individual beholders using Improved Invisibility and killing them before they could do much.
And then for the one big encounter with multiple beholders in the middle part of the map, I sent in a modded Viconia (Level1NPC'd to Cleric/Mage multiclass, but still keeping her innate magic resistance), wearing some item to increase her MR even higher, and buffed to the max with Improved Haste and other combat bonuses and Death Ward and Spell Turning and multiple Spell Immunity and whatnot. The other party members stayed back, spamming AOE spells or continually sending in melee summons to help Vicky.
The beholders did manage to punch through Vicky's protections, but by that time only one beholder was still alive, so the whole party rushed in to pummel him. As his last act before he died, the beholder petrified Viconia, so I had to expend a Stone-to-Flesh scroll afterwards.
So yeah, it sort of worked without excessive cheese... But it was super messy and relied on luck. I definitely wouldn't call it a "reliable way to take them out".
And that was without the SCS "Smarter Beholders" component (through with most other SCS components installed). I shudder to think what it would be like with that component...
Watcher's keep, level 3, Tahazzar and demon freaks. Those never ending summonned Glabrezus and insta-cloaking qua whatever the name is mobs are annoying as hell.
Spirit trolls. Invisibility, regeneration, can only be killed by fire and acid... and on top of that, they sap your strength so you're overencumbered. Damn you, improved Druid Grove! I'd take Improved Anvil's golems over spirit trolls that's how much I hate them.
First time I fought Mindflyers in Athkatla sewers. Hell, I might have reloaded more than 30 times. They ate the brains of Fire Elements, of Skeleton Knights... If my fighters with immunity to stun joined the fray, they simple stunned my mages and went immediatly to suck their brains. Illithids are pretty nasty in Shadows of Amn...
Comments
Mmm... beholders? Wait no, you can crush a whole city of them with a single item
Mmm... vampires? Wait no, you can crush a whole city of them with a single spell... or a single item
I'll vote for anything that is able to cast Imprisonment, myself.
Sure, there is a spell able to prevent it, but you can only target the caster with it, leaving all your other companions really vulnerable... also, this spell just ignore all defenses and need a very painful process to recover from (level 9 spell, then recruit the companion once more)
- Illithids are uttertly powerless against Mordenkanein's Sword.
This summon just doesn't have a brain, so it's immune to confusion, domination, devour brain, and psionics. To sum it up: There is absolutly NOTHING an illithid can do to get rid of this summon in the vanilla version of the game... I destroyed every illithid in the game with it and never took a single damage point when fightning Illithids.
What's better? This summon cannot be damaged by Umber Hulks too, so even Illithid's pet falls against it
- Beholders are really weak against any character with the Shield of Balduran
This shield that can be bought in the Adventurer Mart just turn back their own rays against them. The only threat remaining are when Elder Orb try to cast Imprisonment on the shield bearer, but you can run in circle around them so they will never get in range, and every range attack they will throw at the character will harm themselves instead.
Better: Put Jaheira on "ranged attacked" IA, give her the Firetooth dagger and the Shield of Balduran, and go take a coffee while your computer clear a beholder lair without your help
- Vampires are weak creatures once you wear the Amulet of Power
This amulet prevent Level Drain, and besides that, it only takes a bit of saves throws to cancel their dominating powers. If you can't kill vampires once immune to Level Drain, you just messed up something.
The same can be achieved with the Negative Plane Protection spell, with Dorn, or with a Wish... vampires are only a threat if you don't know what you are looking for to defend against their powers
This is the core problem of Imprisonement too. There are ways to counter it... but those ways will not find their way in every party. You need a berzerker or a mage strong enough in melee to hold the first line without dying... and this is why it is for me more "hateable" than illithids and beholders that 90% of the party can hard-counter
However, the topic is not about what is the most frequent, but the most hated.
Tell me if I'm wrong, but I do believe there is very few things that players hate most than getting hit by a successful imprisonement
Elder orbs are my favorite, something with anti-magic ray, save or die rays and imprisonment is something you need to respect on a no-reload run. Also death spell does funny things to summons..
Alhoons are also pretty lethal.
I'm just glad you never have to fight Alhoons and elder orbs at the same time..
Except if he gets hits by Imprisonment, naturaly.
i guess my game is bugged since i get critted by virtually anything 25% of the time
I've used one of SimDing0's mods that allows me to reduce experience point awards, whether for quests, scribing scrolls, disarming traps, or enemy kills. That helps slow the level gains, although the game becomes more challenging by the end since the game can only scale down its encounters so much. My party was automatically leveled up at the start of ToB because it didn't meet the minimum level requirements, despite me doing most SoA quests.
I would like a mod where everything in SoA was depowered and levels were gained more slowly. Rather than just increase the power levels of enemies or improve their AI, just don't let the combat get to such high levels so quickly. I'm not sure how ToB would work, then, since it's basically just spamming HLAs for five hours, but then I'm not a huge fan of it, anyway.
E.g. have Bhodi's vampire lair in Chapter 3 only have the three vampires we stake, and the rest be ghast thralls. Don't have hordes of orcs, wolfweres, mummies, and vampires in Firkraag's lair, just have orcs (and the troll chef!)
If only the AI for them was smarter they'd realize that their eye beams are not affecting you because of the shield and float away or just scream for an elder to come and imprison you. Here is a tale for you:
There was once a brave fighter named Ginthakeyn the Brave aka Gin and he wasn't the smartest individual in the world but was really brave and thought he could clear the beholder lair and rid the world of some evil so taking the shield of balduran from his sack he equipped it and charged in. Gin had fought many battles and was a veteran adventurer since leaving Candlekeep, his god infused blood allowed him to fight with ease and power against the most powerful of foes since adventuring in Amn. Gin moved proudly and confidently through the lair using not an ounce of secrecy - he stood proud and he challenged the eye tyrants in their own city to come and do battle against him.
The first few battles went as expected the beholders fell right and left to the shield of cheese and the Gin the Brave didn't even have to lift a finger much less unsheathed his sword. He walked slowly through the lair confident in his shield, his eyes daring any to approach, his stance was confident and almost cocky. He arrived at another section of the lair his companion so very far away and meet with a horde of beholders. He smiled the wicked smile he got with the success he had already achieved with the shield and beckoned them forward his eyes saying come and fight me if you dare. The beholders move together 7 or 8 of them maybe more with the little gauths and the battle went well, if it could even be called a battle. They died by the score and the city streets of the beholder was littered with corpses. He stood defiant in the face of overwhelming fire power the walls and ground shock with power but nothing touched him. The rays flashed back and he smiled and almost laughed at them, he would rid the world of these eye tyrants. The beholders started to fall and die all around him at last figuring out that there rays were actually killing themselves but with no other recourse they continued and more fell to the ground there blackened bodies a testament to their own power. When another group showed up and this one had a big floating eye with it larger then the rest. Gin smiled another to fall to his shield the bigger the better and his legend would sing through out history as the Beholder Slayer; beholder mothers would scare children with tales about him and he would be inspire fear among the eye tyrants. The latest group attacked with the same futile beams and Gin smiled no mere beholder regardless of the size would defeat him and he laughed for the first time at their futility.
Back at the entrance carefully hidden away the rest of the party started to wonder and worry where had Gin gone and why was he taking so long. Aerie took a moment and cast wizard eye to try and spot Gin, and what she saw was a horrible remains of the tyrants, the eye followed the string of corpses the littered the ground until the flashes of battle was spotted ahead. She watched as the latest group of beholders included an elder - she recognized them from her study and worry filled her gaze.
Gin stood proudly and arrogantly among the beholders as they totally surrounded him and he laughing at them - egging them on to blast him - he seemed crazed, his eyes shone with the light of madness at the power he possessed, this was the madness all those that possessed too much power had. Aerie watched concerned in her eyes, if Gin ascended or fell to the intoxication of power that was in his blood would he become what he is now - a man or god wallowing and enjoying his power of destruction, she wondered or maybe even worse if this was a sign of things to come.
Aerie watched the battle, narrating what was happening to the party when her eyes opened a little in horror. The elder orb getting tired of firing his useless beams began mouthing an incantation and Gin the clueless bastard continued to taunt and laugh at them egging them to blast him not realizing what was about to happen. As the battle continued Gin laughed his eyes sparkled and his proud stance continued - he taunted them saying he would slay them all, he would be their bogeyman and they would know fear for once in their lives. He laughed mockingly when he finally noticed that the orbs suddenly ceased to fire and only the little gauths continued. He looked around and as his eyes locked with the eyes of the large orb that had ceased firing a while back, the eye smiled - if one could say a beholder could smile - it spoke the last word and Gin looked around not realizing what was happening, light shaped as a cage formed around him suddenly and he looked at them with incomprehension assuming another beam attack only to realize too late he was caught, his laughter ceased and sudden horror realization filled the stench filled lair, and as Gin disappeared from sight the beholders had the last laugh.
Far away Aerie watched with horror at the outcome, narrating what had just happened to her fellow party members. The shock their heads sadly and with bemusement at such an ending before quietly taking their leave of the Beholder city and the Underdark. And adventure to be had and tales to be told as the party left the Underdark to return to their own lives but as tales would be told of the Hero of Baldurs Gate perhaps the ultimate fate and demise of the Hero as he went against the Beholder City would get a slightly different ending when they told the story again.
The moral of the story - beholders are also mages don't get too cocky even with the shield of cheese.
I did beat the Cult of the Eyeless without either tactic, by getting the jump on individual beholders using Improved Invisibility and killing them before they could do much.
And then for the one big encounter with multiple beholders in the middle part of the map, I sent in a modded Viconia (Level1NPC'd to Cleric/Mage multiclass, but still keeping her innate magic resistance), wearing some item to increase her MR even higher, and buffed to the max with Improved Haste and other combat bonuses and Death Ward and Spell Turning and multiple Spell Immunity and whatnot.
The other party members stayed back, spamming AOE spells or continually sending in melee summons to help Vicky.
The beholders did manage to punch through Vicky's protections, but by that time only one beholder was still alive, so the whole party rushed in to pummel him. As his last act before he died, the beholder petrified Viconia, so I had to expend a Stone-to-Flesh scroll afterwards.
So yeah, it sort of worked without excessive cheese... But it was super messy and relied on luck.
I definitely wouldn't call it a "reliable way to take them out".
And that was without the SCS "Smarter Beholders" component (through with most other SCS components installed). I shudder to think what it would be like with that component...
Those never ending summonned Glabrezus and insta-cloaking qua whatever the name is mobs are annoying as hell.
A ) Big groups of beholders - the only counter is the shield or farsight cheesing with web+cloudkill etc.
B ) The multi-ethnic mage posse under the Bridge District
C ) 4th level Watcher's Keep the last Guardians before Demogorgon - the drow, mortal kombat demon snakewoman etc.
D ) Big groups of golems - adamantite/iron golem they hit so damn hard. Your fighters lose like 50% hp in one hit, and then they pop poison cloud too.