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Best Gnome Character (besides fighter/illusionist)?

I was looking at illusionist/thief and cleric/illusionist, trying to decide which might kick more butt. However, both seem more like support characters. How do you play them effectively? THACO seems no Bueno on both. Can an illusionist/thief be effective in combat? Can they backstab effectively with low THACO? Or are they just disarming traps, opening locks, and casting support spells?

What about C/I? Probably not too effective in combat, but how much does splitting their XP limit the effectiveness of damage spells?
dockaboomskiwizzywazzo

Comments

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Cleric/Illusionists are stupendous characters. They are easily the hardest critters to kill over the course of the saga, though not at every single stage.

    Splitting their XP does very little to weaken their damage spells (it's only about a level's difference), but Cleric/Mages aren't there to deal damage anyway. They are all-around tanks and support characters, with the number and variety of spells to deal with nearly any situation. By combining mage buffs with cleric buffs, they can make themselves immune to weapons and magic attacks as well as all disablers and damage spells.

    Illusionist/Thieves will be good backstabbers, though not quite as reliable or deadly as Fighter/Thieves. Like Cleric/Illusionists, their strength is not dealing fast damage; it's being able to do basically anything else.
    dockaboomskiThacoBell
  • dockaboomskidockaboomski Member Posts: 440
    Gnome fighters are arguably some of the best in the game, because they get shorty saves and no penalty to str or dex.
    sarevok57semiticgoddess
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Illusionist/thief is the easiest class to backstabbing with due to the invisibility spells.

    Purge a mages buff (through spells or detect illusion) go invisible, line up a backstabbing, rice repeat.
  • WinterisleWinterisle Member Posts: 111
    Gnome Illusionist/Thief is one of my favorite classes of all times. Cast a few defensive spells, mirror image, improved haste, tenser transformation, improved invisibility and just run in there and start stabbing the hell out of everything with some good +3 sword. If your hp start to get low, go invisible again, run out and chuck in a fireball. No problem.
  • alceryesalceryes Member Posts: 380
    edited July 2016
    An EEKeepered Gnome Fighter/Illusionist/Thief, FTW!
    No negatives to STR, CON, or DEX, shorty saves, extra cast per spell level, excellent thief ability bonuses. Yes, you do lose necro spells. But the positives greatly outweigh the negatives.
    sarevok57semiticgoddessFinneousPJ
  • GodGod Member Posts: 1,150

    Cast a few defensive spells, mirror image, improved haste, tenser transformation, improved invisibility and just run in there and start stabbing the hell out of everything with some good +3 sword.

    Better yet, backwhack it with a Staff of Striking.
    semiticgoddess
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    or try this bizarre build, which I have done and quite enjoyed: be a fighter/thief, but instead of having the usual lock picks and disarm traps, don't put a single skill in those, better yet, start by cranking pick pocket and detect illusion,

    especially in BG1EE detect illusion becomes quite the killer ability ( it kind of drowns out in SoA with true seeing being very easy to get and not having to make it so your thief stands around for a round or 2) but for whatever reason, detect illusion rocks in BG1,

    plus having pick pockets is nice, there is quite a few items you can pick pocket in the game that really make it useful to have, especially at early levels if you want to pick the pockets of characters without killing them

    and then after detect illusion and pick pockets is maxed out? trap setting, a tanky fighter thief has great options for this, before a big fight, you set a couple of traps down, lure in the baddie, they spring 'em, take some damage and then go in for the kill, fighter/thieves can be great in combat, and that little tactic just gives them a little bit more of an edge

    and then how would you equip this guy? in good ol' strapping full plate mail of coarse, gnome fighter/thieves don't need subterfuge, especially if they are wielding a godly two handed sword, making mince meat out of their enemies, or maybe a sword and board combo? if you are into killin' drizzt, his scimitar works wonders with a shield, especially if backstab is your thing, which, with that higher STR value really helps out if you're into that,

    but I like the 2 handed sword idea because of what can happen in the SoA:

    the things that really make a fighter/thief shine is use any item, which is probably by far uncontested the best ability a fighter thief can have, because then you can use things like...... carsomyr for example, you can be a chaotic evil fighter/thief and wield carsomyr for the absolute LULZ, I find it ironically humorous and quite satisfying, plus you actually get to be skilled with it as well, match that up with your godly saves and items like wonderous gloves/amulet of the master harper and you don't even miss out on the AC bonus for having no shield, you can still hit -15 AC while using the holy avenger while being skilled with it at the same time

    gnomes definitely make any class they are in, quite amazing, especially when you do things in whacky unconventional ways :)
    Aerakar
  • JumboWheat01JumboWheat01 Member Posts: 1,028
    Pretty much Anything/Illusionists. Gnomes are the only race to, by default, hit that magical 19 INT which lets them learn all spells available to them per level. And when combined with Cleric, the lack of arcane Necromancy spells isn't felt all that much, thanks to the divine alternatives. Fighters and Thieves both get a bigger benefit out of Illusion spells than Necromancy anyway, so they too don't really feel the hit.

    Though I did have a pure Wizard Slayer one time that was a Gnome. Between magic resistance and those bonus saving throws to Spell and Wands, generally the biggest two things to worry about coming out of a mage enemy, he was quite the potent character, especially, as others have noted, Gnomes don't have either a Strength or Dexterity penalty like their fellow shorties.
    sarevok57
  • shylamanshylaman Member Posts: 173
    What are some of the strategies for playing C/I or I/Thief in mid to late SOA? Seems they aren't going to de direct damage dealers as much as a F/I, for example. I have played a lot more low level D&D2.5 (BG1) than higher level stuff. I have completed SoA with a Kensai/Druid and a Sorcerer.
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100

    Gnome fighters are arguably some of the best in the game, because they get shorty saves and no penalty to str or dex.

    Only until you reach Baldurs Gate in the first game. Then dwarves get 18dex, which is the same as 19 in close combat. At which point they are con20 to the gnome 19.

    Without illusion magic, go dwarf.
    dockaboomskisemiticgoddessAerakar
  • dockaboomskidockaboomski Member Posts: 440
    @Grum you sure you aren't biased? ;)
    mf2112semiticgoddessAerakar
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    Best gnome character is this one, of course:

    http://xkcd.com/1704/
    ThacoBelllroumen
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    In Icewind Dale, gnome cleric/illusionists are great, since they can wear the Helm of the Trusted Defender, which lets them cast Haste, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, and Greater Restoration without having to worry about getting fatigued. Greater Restoration is particularly awesome because it's basically a Heal spell except with a much shorter casting time.
    semiticgoddess
  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    I am partial to the much derided and undervalued cleric/thief. Backstabbing, trap setting, any item using cleric. With spells that maximize your damage roll backstab is pretty cool. 1st level sanctuary spell is all kinds of impressive when combined with thief skills too. Plus it allows you to drag in any companions you want because you've got everything covered one way or another
    ThacoBellmf2112
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    PK2748 said:

    I am partial to the much derided and undervalued cleric/thief. Backstabbing, trap setting, any item using cleric. With spells that maximize your damage roll backstab is pretty cool. 1st level sanctuary spell is all kinds of impressive when combined with thief skills too. Plus it allows you to drag in any companions you want because you've got everything covered one way or another

    As far as I know, you can't backstab from Sanctuary. I've tried it (in Icewind Dale at least; I'm not so sure about Baldur's Gate).
  • JumboWheat01JumboWheat01 Member Posts: 1,028
    I'm more for a half-orc cleric/thief than a gnome. That extra THAC0 from 19 strength really helps the back-stab potential. Plus if you're relying on sneaking and backstabbing, those shorty saving throws aren't really gonna be put to much use.

    Though why halflings never got cleric/thief in 2e remains a mystery to me. Their starting thief skills would make them awesome cleric/thieves.
  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    You can't backstab from Sanctuary but you can loot everything and disarm every trap. I'm not sure about setting traps though. I'm going to try it in the bandit hut soon.

    I think spell saves always matter. With the various plus strength options available to clerics I see no upside after level 3 to being a half Orc.

    Halflings always got screwed on class options. I'd like a Halfling cleric/thief too, there are better portraits for Halflings than Gnomes but I'm still deeply enjoying the class. I like the freedom and versatility
    Aerakar
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