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Mage/Thief vs Ravager?

TenreccTenrecc Member Posts: 265
Hey guys, I've taken it upon myself to down the Ravager (insane, no mods) in an as smooth and fast way as possible, with a solo Mage/Thief. I've come up with a method I'm fairly satisfied with, but since I know this forum is filled with highly capable solo players, I'm interest in hearing your input and ideas about how this could be done as efficiently as possible.

The setup you can use is a Mage/Thief (Illusionist/thief if you prefer) that has soloed the series all the way to that point, thus he has access to Tomes, Lum's Machine, all available items in the game, is XP capped etc.

No heavy cheese (rift device, WoW abuse, talk bugging) allowed, it's supposed to showcase Mage/Thief as a class, not cheese. If any of those things even still work.

Any takers? :)

Comments

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    Pierce shield and spamming horrid wiltings with project images should work. Pro from magic weapons should be active at all times.

    Failing that, a good sling with +4 bullets and a movement rate advantage eventually works, it takes a lot longer however.
  • TenreccTenrecc Member Posts: 265
    lunar said:

    Pierce shield and spamming horrid wiltings with project images should work. Pro from magic weapons should be active at all times.

    Just one pierce shield? Or reducing his MR really low before starting the bombardement? I'm guessing he's immune to LR if you suggest PS.

    I had an idea about slashing him with The Answerer a few times and then some wilting bombardement. Just wish there were some easy way to know his MR so I knew how much I should reduce it by approximately.
    lunar said:

    Failing that, a good sling with +4 bullets and a movement rate advantage eventually works, it takes a lot longer however.

    Won't you get overrun by Bone Blades at that time? Or are they limited to a certain amount?

    Either way, I'm looking for something efficient. While this might work and be reliable, it would take so, sooo long. ^^
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    Tenrecc said:

    Either way, I'm looking for something efficient. While this might work and be reliable, it would take so, sooo long. ^^

    I don't quite remember the unmodded Ravager. Is it immune to backstabs? If not, use Mislead + backstab.

    If it is immune to backstab, use a scroll of Black Blade of Disaster and go to town with Improved Haste and an APR offhand + the APR gauntlets. Dispel any protections beforehand, of course.

    Is it immune to traps? Spike Trap the entire area, and lean back and relax.
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    edited August 2016
    If you don't want to use traps, melee him to death with Black Blade of Disaster is the usual strategy for rogue types. Magic damage isn't really sustainable solo with something else than a sorcerer. Energy Blades is also a solution but from my experience BBoD is quicker to kill him while dual-wielded with Crom under IH. For Thac0 problems, cast Tenser's and keep a stack of scrolls to refresh ProfMW when needed.

    Since you're a M/T and not a Bard or pure Thief, keep a Planetar around. Simulacrum can help too.

    e: wooops ninja'd
  • TenreccTenrecc Member Posts: 265
    edited August 2016


    I don't quite remember the unmodded Ravager. Is it immune to backstabs? If not, use Mislead + backstab.

    Unmodded? As opposed to? SCS?

    Uh, I took for granted that it was immune to backstab and could see through invis. Almost everything in ToB except fodder is immune to backstab. Even people who it makes no sense that they should be, like Sendai, Balthazar etc. Should try it out though I guess.

    EDIT: Just tried. As expected, immune to backstab and sees through invis. Also he seems to toss daggers now, so I guess the range kiting idea isn't gonna work.

    If it is immune to backstab, use a scroll of Black Blade of Disaster and go to town with Improved Haste and an APR offhand + the APR gauntlets. Dispel any protections beforehand, of course.

    Oh, that's a good call. So far I've been going to town with Spectral+Angur, but I think BBoD would be higher damage output. That might improve it a bit! Just the kind of tip I was looking for.

    Is it immune to traps? Spike Trap the entire area, and lean back and relax.

    He is not. Not even resistant. He is, however, the only person in the series that can take 7 spike traps to the face without dying. But it leaves him at near death.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    There you have it, then. Spike Traps to the face for the bulk, blade in the butt for the final points.
  • TenreccTenrecc Member Posts: 265

    Or cast Power Word: Blind on self, followed by Improved Alacrity, to set all of your traps in a single round in the middle of combat.

    Haha, that is pretty glorious, I neither knew blinded oneself could let you plant traps like that, nor that improved alac worked on traps. These kind of posts is exactly why I made this thread, thanks a lot :D
  • xzar_montyxzar_monty Member Posts: 631
    Hang on, what's the in-game logic (or bug) that makes Power Word: Blind + Improved Alacrity such a killer combination? I don't get it yet.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    edited August 2016

    Hang on, what's the in-game logic (or bug) that makes Power Word: Blind + Improved Alacrity such a killer combination? I don't get it yet.

    With pw:blind you are blinded automaticaly and with improved alacrtiy, and auto-pause on spell cast, you can spam-set all of your traps in a blink even if there are enemies in the area. (they need to be right next to you for you to 'see' them and cause trap failure when blinded) That will kill most anything. Especially spike traps are horribly op. (they really should cause piercing damage, instead of magic. I changed them to pierce in my game and they are not nearly as op. =can be blocked by stoneskin and physical resistances)

    Course, when you go magic route, one pierce shield is not enough, however you can cast 3xpierce shields via a chain contingency (see nearest enemy or go profrommw and let it hit you:set to last creature hit by) and this will lower its mr enough. Then keep it busy with mordys and planetars and spam horrid wiltings with PIs.

    Sling+fast movement tactic has been uses by bioware no reload forumites, and has been proven to be succesful if a bit tedious and long way to finish the fight. As long as you keep moving, bone blades can not box you. No enemy has a ranged attack. With a girdle of strength, sling+4 and bullets+4 do respectable amounts of damage at no risk.
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    Blinding yourself can also allow you to hide in plain sight as if you were a Shadowdancer.

    This game is so broken.
  • xzar_montyxzar_monty Member Posts: 631
    @lunar: Thanks for the explanation! I will not use that strategy, it's too mean. Yeah, the game is broken, but I don't want to exploit it like that.
  • TenreccTenrecc Member Posts: 265
    edited August 2016
    lunar said:

    Sling+fast movement tactic has been uses by bioware no reload forumites, and has been proven to be succesful if a bit tedious and long way to finish the fight. As long as you keep moving, bone blades can not box you. No enemy has a ranged attack. With a girdle of strength, sling+4 and bullets+4 do respectable amounts of damage at no risk.



    Guess Beamdog read those no reload runs too. As of the latest version he throws daggers at you if you run around too much.

    I mean I'm sure it can be circumvented with weapon/missile protections, but he does have a range attack.

    (You can see the projectile to the left of the corpse and just up and a little to the right of his horns, although it's just a tiny dagger so might be hard to spot without knowing what to look for. The missile damage should be proof though.)
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    edited August 2016
    Oh. OUCH. I did not know that. Well, that makes things problematic, ofcourse. Running pro from mw all times becomes essential then. In older versions and vanilla bg2 I never saw that.
  • AnonymousHeroAnonymousHero Member Posts: 98
    lunar said:


    Course, when you go magic route, one pierce shield is not enough, however you can cast 3xpierce shields via a chain contingency (see nearest enemy or go profrommw and let it hit you:set to last creature hit by) and this will lower its mr enough. Then keep it busy with mordys and planetars and spam horrid wiltings with PIs.

    Just a pedantry note: CC:On Hit does not trigger with PfMW active (unless you're hit with a non-magical weapon of course) since the enemy actually cannot hit you. (Same goes for the various Mantle-type spells, depending on enemy weapon enchantment.) It should work with Stoneskin since that just absorbs the damage, but I must admit I haven't actually tested it.
  • FinnTheHumanFinnTheHuman Member Posts: 404
    Kurona said:

    Blinding yourself can also allow you to hide in plain sight as if you were a Shadowdancer.

    This game is so broken.

    Excuse me, but my daughter wrote that piece of code. She was only two and didn't quite understand peek-a-boo mechanics. But I think it's great. She did a wonderful job. Love you baby, don't listen to the horses, they're just a bunch of nay sayers.

    :wink:
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    just for future reference the ravager has this much magic resistance:

    90%
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    Tenrecc said:



    Guess Beamdog read those no reload runs too. As of the latest version he throws daggers at you if you run around too much.

    I mean I'm sure it can be circumvented with weapon/missile protections, but he does have a range attack.

    And you have that wonderful shield that sends back to him the daggers, he will actually help you :wink:

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903

    lunar said:


    Course, when you go magic route, one pierce shield is not enough, however you can cast 3xpierce shields via a chain contingency (see nearest enemy or go profrommw and let it hit you:set to last creature hit by) and this will lower its mr enough. Then keep it busy with mordys and planetars and spam horrid wiltings with PIs.

    Just a pedantry note: CC:On Hit does not trigger with PfMW active (unless you're hit with a non-magical weapon of course) since the enemy actually cannot hit you. (Same goes for the various Mantle-type spells, depending on enemy weapon enchantment.) It should work with Stoneskin since that just absorbs the damage, but I must admit I haven't actually tested it.
    Not true. On-hit contingencies apply as long as the enemy has made a successful attack roll--just like a Fire Shield. It doesn't matter if you resist the attack.
  • AnonymousHeroAnonymousHero Member Posts: 98

    Not true. On-hit contingencies apply as long as the enemy has made a successful attack roll--just like a Fire Shield. It doesn't matter if you resist the attack.

    Wow, thanks for the correction. (I think it may depend on mods/TobEx vs. EE, etc. etc.) I haven't tested recently, but I was 99.9% sure...)

    I think the moral is: Test in your own game if you're going to rely on this for no-reload!

    Thanks again.
  • TenreccTenrecc Member Posts: 265

    Wow, thanks for the correction. (I think it may depend on mods/TobEx vs. EE, etc. etc.) I haven't tested recently, but I was 99.9% sure...)

    That's what I thought too, so I decided to try it in my own completely unmodded game, and same results there. Planetar hitting me while under ProMW still triggered a Chain Contingency set to trigger on "Hit."

    I thought the same as you though, that ProMW would stop it from counting as a hit. ProMW stops Carsomyr and SotM attacks from counting as "Hits," so you can't dispel ProMW with those weapons, but obviously Contingencies works a bit different.

    Oh, Baldur's Gate, you and your whacky unintuitive mechanics.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    On-hit for a weapon isn't the same thing as on-hit for a spell. We just use the same phrase for both.
  • AnonymousHeroAnonymousHero Member Posts: 98
    edited August 2016
    Tenrecc said:


    Oh, Baldur's Gate, you and your whacky unintuitive mechanics.

    Yeah :open_mouth:


    On-hit for a weapon isn't the same thing as on-hit for a spell. We just use the same phrase for both.

    That actually kind-of makes a little sense for a programmer-type person (like me). I could imagine all of this (completely incidentally) being implemented via special cases (because nobody actually thought these things through from the start and ultimately a programmer just decided because, well, we need to deliver this game nownownow.)

    EDIT: Just a little addendum: I think I see where I misremembered: I think my reference may actually have been CC:OnHit with a LMD (from Projected Image/Simulacrum) as a self-directed trigger, but that doesn't work with 100% magic damage resistance + TobEx's "don't interrupt spells when damage=0" component.
  • TenreccTenrecc Member Posts: 265
    lunar said:

    Oh. OUCH. I did not know that. Well, that makes things problematic, ofcourse. Running pro from mw all times becomes essential then. In older versions and vanilla bg2 I never saw that.

    I'm a bit confused about this to be honest. On one hand, if it has been a staple for so long in no-reload forums, it certainly feels like a new anti-cheese addition.

    On another hand, I have a vague (and not unlikely false) memory of seeing this in Vanilla too. Also it feels very vanilla-esque in its design, with the awkward small daggers and the fact he only does it very occasionally and randomly. Also googling on it a bit (which is VERY hard both due to Ravager also being a weapon and there being Ravagers with Range debates in SC2) I found this, which is from 2012 and mentions the Ravagers range attacks not being effective against her AC.

    Would be interesting to hear from Beamdog to shine some more light on it.
  • TenreccTenrecc Member Posts: 265
    lunar said:

    Oh. OUCH. I did not know that. Well, that makes things problematic, ofcourse. Running pro from mw all times becomes essential then. In older versions and vanilla bg2 I never saw that.

    I'm a bit confused about this to be honest. On one hand, if it has been a staple for so long in no-reload forums, it certainly feels like a new anti-cheese addition.

    On another hand, I have a vague (and not unlikely false) memory of seeing this in Vanilla too. Also it feels very vanilla-esque in its design, with the awkward small daggers and the fact he only does it very occasionally and randomly. Also googling on it a bit (which is VERY hard both due to Ravager also being a weapon and there being Ravagers with Range debates in SC2) I found this, which is from 2012 and mentions the Ravagers range attacks not being effective against her AC.

    Would be interesting to hear from Beamdog to shine some more light on it.
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