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Fighter/Mage vs Fighter/Cleric vs Fighter/Druid - Who's better at what?

This is something that always interested me...
In terms of utility, offense, defense, solo- and party-capability, flavour, etc., who do you think has the edge over the others?
Never played F/D (not even interested in it, as I like Jaheira too much ^^ )

I think F/C is by far the most party-friendly, also slightly better than F/M for offense who in turn is slightly better than F/D.
F/M is best for solo (all these immunities) and of course defense, and I think F/D is against melee far better than F/C due to ironskins.
F/D takes the first place for flavour, as i always think of that multiclass as the "Avenger v2.0", raging in battle, bear to his left, tiger to his right. :3
F/D just fails for utility, as with F/M or F/C you have so much more spells for all your healing, detecting, opening and/or scouting needs.

All imo of course :)

What do you guys think?
FinneousPJgorgonzola

Comments

  • JumboWheat01JumboWheat01 Member Posts: 1,028
    Thinking on it at a personal level, the Fighter/Druid takes the main problem of the Druid, shields and armor, and "fixes" it. It allows for the interesting nature-oriented spells, which are a tad more offensive-support oriented, and combines them with a tank character. Plus druid exp starts crapping out at level 14, so having another class tagged in there at least lets your character continue to improve some.

    Fighter/Cleric benefits GREATLY from Draw Upon Holy Might. It almost strikes me as a spell designed with the Fighter/Cleric in mind. It does share a little bit of cross-over with the Paladin, but unlike the Paladin, you'll get access to all the Cleric spellbook eventually, and you never have to worry about falling. Plus you can be a dwarf. What's not to love?

    Fighter/Mage benefits from a Wizard's flexible spellbook. You want to make a character that can blast at a distance then walk into combat? You can do that. Want one that has a lot of powerful group support and fighting on the side? You can do that as well. The Fighter part also fixes a Wizard's AC problem, with the glorious thing that is Elven Chainmail. Also, unlike the other two, the Fighter/Mage isn't limited in their weapon selection, you can use whatever your little heart desires.


    I would say the Fighter mixture adds the most to Wizards and Druids, the least to Clerics, but it benefits most from Clerics and Wizards, rather than Druids.
    GrumBaldurspawngorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    edited August 2016
    @JumboWheat01I agree with your analysis, just wont to add a couple of things.
    F/C no +1 APR weapon
    F/D +1 APR weapon, but can not use the best mlee weapons, unless he use the Staff of Ram, that cost him 2 APR
    F/M all the best weapons and his secret OP one, sequencers and contingencies used offensively. he can do things like send to an enemy a sequencer with 3x Lower Resistance and wait that the CC triggers. And you know what the CC contains... Or he can Tank for 16/20 rounds the Ravager or the Demon Prince and their helpers without taking a single damage. He can self buff with IH, and does not matter that your main mage also can buff the fighters, his own ones are extra, there is never enough of them in a party with 2 o 3 fighters that don't abuse rest. With a couple of Spell immunity can protect his buffs or become immune at most of the damaging and disabling spells.

    Imo all 3 are interesting to play, but if you look for offensive power go Mage, if you look for a tank and for self protection same.
  • ZilberZilber Member Posts: 253
    A fighter druid (preferably berserker-druid) is best at portraying someone from uncivilised lands that not only knows how to defend him/herself, but also how to shape the surroundings without destroying them.

    A fighter mage best portrays a "renaissance man", someone not only good at feats of the flesh, but at feats of the mind as well.

    A fighter cleric best portrays a religious zealot, fanatic with berserker, inquisitor with wizard slayer. Someone on the violent side of the religion.
    gorgonzola
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    F/M by miles is most powerful. F/C has some spells that enhance combat, such as DUHM, but they pale in comparison to the combat enhancements of a F/M, such as Tenser's, Improved Haste, Mislead, Simulacrum etc.

    But I agree that the defensive capabilties of a F/M are what really stand out - combat protections such as Mirror Image, Stoneskin, PfMW etc and spell protections such as SI, Spell Shield etc
    gorgonzola
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    Fighter/Mages: Batman's Utility Belt

    Fighter/Mages are the best. Stoneskin and mirror image are great for protection. Against real big bads, you can throw in protection from magical weapons. They can buff themself up with fireshield for extra tankiness. And they can buff themselves offensively with spells like improved haste. Throw in a contingency for desperate situations, and few things can touch them.

    Fighter/Druid: Good tankiness, and some neat tricks, but lacks

    Following them I'd go with Fighter/Druids. They get to wear metal armor, unlike normal druids. They can dual wield pretty darn well with Belm in the offhand. Ironskin gives survivability. If outdoors, call lightning is ridiculous. Inspect plague shuts down spellcasters. And of course, healing.

    Fighter/Cleric: For when you just want to smash a skull

    Finally there are fighter/clerics. I'm playing one now and it is fun...but they lack the survivability of the other 2. However, making up for that is their offensive cabilities.

    - Draw upon holy might = easy 25 strength
    - Righteous magic = upgraded DuHM, for max damage each hit. Can you say "ouch"? It even stacks with DuHM, as RM gives strength, max damage and temporary hit points. DuHM still gives dex and con bonuses.
    - Physical mirror is hilarious against ranged enemies.
    - Protection from evil 10ft radius is a great party buff spell.
    - Eventually getting armor of faith with defender of easthaven gives some tankability.
    - And of course, healing.

    And the RP!

    Fighter/Mage just screams "elf" to me.
    Fighter/Druid is "half-elf" only. I've personally never been a fan of half-elves...but some interesting RPing opportunity.
    Fighter/Cleric just screams "dwarf."

    Where the elf is self-absorbed and puts all of his spells into protecting himself and having contingency plans for when things go wrong (see what I did there?) the dwarf buffs and heals his entire team. Where the elf focuses on swinging as fast as possible, moving as a blur, the dwarf lands a few solid hits for maximum effectiveness. Where the elf folds like wet paper when his spells runs out (ie: relies on his contingency and a quick casting of stoneskin for defense) the dwarf relies on damage reduction and self-healing.

    Very different mindsets. Very different playstyles. I recommend doing all of the above!
    gorgonzolaZilber
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Grum said:


    Inspect plague

    Is your Druid a dentist by chance, inspecting plaque on enemies?
    Dexter
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100

    Grum said:


    Inspect plague

    Is your Druid a dentist by chance, inspecting plaque on enemies?
    A veterinarian, actually. My cleric is the dentist.
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    edited August 2016

    F/M by miles is most powerful. ................. Simulacrum

    That single spell make him by miles more powerful than a F/C + a F/D.
    But he can do even more then that like Simulacrum + Planetar + PI that cast IA.
    The Planetar restores the level of the clone, the Simulacrum protects himself from DM, TS is not a problem. so is not penalized in thaco and ST, and now watch a F/M equipping BBoD and a Planetar bashing the enemies while an other F/M unleash all the spellbook at the cost of a single lev7 slot.

    Best fighter, best summoner and best caster all at the same time.
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,428
    Fighter-Cleric has Death Ward, Chaotic Commands, and Free Action, so although they don't have as much to survive physically as the other two, they're very difficult to take down using spells. And I haven't really done it, but Righteous Magic plus GWW sounds devastating.
  • ZilberZilber Member Posts: 253
    Grum said:

    Fighter/Mages: Batman's Utility Belt

    Fighter/Mages are the best. Stoneskin and mirror image are great for protection. Against real big bads, you can throw in protection from magical weapons. They can buff themself up with fireshield for extra tankiness. And they can buff themselves offensively with spells like improved haste. Throw in a contingency for desperate situations, and few things can touch them.

    Fighter/Druid: Good tankiness, and some neat tricks, but lacks

    Following them I'd go with Fighter/Druids. They get to wear metal armor, unlike normal druids. They can dual wield pretty darn well with Belm in the offhand. Ironskin gives survivability. If outdoors, call lightning is ridiculous. Inspect plague shuts down spellcasters. And of course, healing.

    Fighter/Cleric: For when you just want to smash a skull

    Finally there are fighter/clerics. I'm playing one now and it is fun...but they lack the survivability of the other 2. However, making up for that is their offensive cabilities.

    - Draw upon holy might = easy 25 strength
    - Righteous magic = upgraded DuHM, for max damage each hit. Can you say "ouch"? It even stacks with DuHM, as RM gives strength, max damage and temporary hit points. DuHM still gives dex and con bonuses.
    - Physical mirror is hilarious against ranged enemies.
    - Protection from evil 10ft radius is a great party buff spell.
    - Eventually getting armor of faith with defender of easthaven gives some tankability.
    - And of course, healing.

    And the RP!

    Fighter/Mage just screams "elf" to me.
    Fighter/Druid is "half-elf" only. I've personally never been a fan of half-elves...but some interesting RPing opportunity.
    Fighter/Cleric just screams "dwarf."

    Where the elf is self-absorbed and puts all of his spells into protecting himself and having contingency plans for when things go wrong (see what I did there?) the dwarf buffs and heals his entire team. Where the elf focuses on swinging as fast as possible, moving as a blur, the dwarf lands a few solid hits for maximum effectiveness. Where the elf folds like wet paper when his spells runs out (ie: relies on his contingency and a quick casting of stoneskin for defense) the dwarf relies on damage reduction and self-healing.

    Very different mindsets. Very different playstyles. I recommend doing all of the above!

    In fact, my current IWD party has an elven fighter-mage, a half-orc fighter-druid and a dwarven fighter-cleric
    Topped off with a halfling cleric-thief, dragon desciple and a half-elven bard

    There was some EEkeepering involved, but it's a fun party.
    Grum
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    Go fighter/mage/cleric!

    *Sees himself out*
  • ZilberZilber Member Posts: 253
    elminster said:

    Go fighter/mage/cleric!

    *Sees himself out*

    If there were a thief/mage cleric, I'd be sold
    GrumelminstersemiticgoddessAbi_Dalzim
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    Zilber said:

    Grum said:

    Fighter/Mages: Batman's Utility Belt

    Fighter/Mages are the best. Stoneskin and mirror image are great for protection. Against real big bads, you can throw in protection from magical weapons. They can buff themself up with fireshield for extra tankiness. And they can buff themselves offensively with spells like improved haste. Throw in a contingency for desperate situations, and few things can touch them.

    Fighter/Druid: Good tankiness, and some neat tricks, but lacks

    Following them I'd go with Fighter/Druids. They get to wear metal armor, unlike normal druids. They can dual wield pretty darn well with Belm in the offhand. Ironskin gives survivability. If outdoors, call lightning is ridiculous. Inspect plague shuts down spellcasters. And of course, healing.

    Fighter/Cleric: For when you just want to smash a skull

    Finally there are fighter/clerics. I'm playing one now and it is fun...but they lack the survivability of the other 2. However, making up for that is their offensive cabilities.

    - Draw upon holy might = easy 25 strength
    - Righteous magic = upgraded DuHM, for max damage each hit. Can you say "ouch"? It even stacks with DuHM, as RM gives strength, max damage and temporary hit points. DuHM still gives dex and con bonuses.
    - Physical mirror is hilarious against ranged enemies.
    - Protection from evil 10ft radius is a great party buff spell.
    - Eventually getting armor of faith with defender of easthaven gives some tankability.
    - And of course, healing.

    And the RP!

    Fighter/Mage just screams "elf" to me.
    Fighter/Druid is "half-elf" only. I've personally never been a fan of half-elves...but some interesting RPing opportunity.
    Fighter/Cleric just screams "dwarf."

    Where the elf is self-absorbed and puts all of his spells into protecting himself and having contingency plans for when things go wrong (see what I did there?) the dwarf buffs and heals his entire team. Where the elf focuses on swinging as fast as possible, moving as a blur, the dwarf lands a few solid hits for maximum effectiveness. Where the elf folds like wet paper when his spells runs out (ie: relies on his contingency and a quick casting of stoneskin for defense) the dwarf relies on damage reduction and self-healing.

    Very different mindsets. Very different playstyles. I recommend doing all of the above!

    In fact, my current IWD party has an elven fighter-mage, a half-orc fighter-druid and a dwarven fighter-cleric
    Topped off with a halfling cleric-thief, dragon desciple and a half-elven bard

    There was some EEkeepering involved, but it's a fun party.
    And how do the three play for you? Which one is your MVP?
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    edited August 2016

    Fighter-Cleric has Death Ward, Chaotic Commands, and Free Action, so although they don't have as much to survive physically as the other two, they're very difficult to take down using spells. And I haven't really done it, but Righteous Magic plus GWW sounds devastating.

    Sounds, but War Hammer rolls 1d4, Staff and Flail 1d6, so 2.5 and 3.5 on average.
    You gain 1.5 and 2.5 per attack, 15dmg x round (Hammer) and 25 (Staff and Flail), on average.
    The bulk of the damage come from STR, weapon enchantment bonus, specialization bonus and items bonus, 1.5 or 2.5 is not a big difference, useful but not game changing.
    If the CM want to be devastating he uses DuHM, the Staff of the Ram and GWW, RM is used only if there is time to buff as DuHM has a short casting time, RM takes time, time that he can not use to bash the foe.

    Death Ward, Chaotic Commands, and Free Action are wonderful spells, but a competent mage don't have any problem if he wants to get rid of them. I am talking of the relative power of the classes, those spells are so good in game (vanilla) just because the AI is stupid and the enemy mage try to cast a spell against which the char is protected instead of dispelling the protection.
    And the C/M has good ways to survive physically, good AC and damage reduction stacking Armor of Faith, Hardness and equipping DoE.

    EDIT: initial quote added.

    Post edited by gorgonzola on
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    edited August 2016
    About RM if someone wants to have the best from it has to use the C/M shapeshifted into a golem, now the DMG roll is 4d10 and the gain is 4*4.5=18 dmg more per attack on average, that is what make the shapeshifted and improve hasted Aerie a mlee monster (she has to DW before turning into a Golem to get 4APR).
  • ZilberZilber Member Posts: 253
    Grum said:

    Zilber said:

    Grum said:

    Fighter/Mages: Batman's Utility Belt

    Fighter/Mages are the best. Stoneskin and mirror image are great for protection. Against real big bads, you can throw in protection from magical weapons. They can buff themself up with fireshield for extra tankiness. And they can buff themselves offensively with spells like improved haste. Throw in a contingency for desperate situations, and few things can touch them.

    Fighter/Druid: Good tankiness, and some neat tricks, but lacks

    Following them I'd go with Fighter/Druids. They get to wear metal armor, unlike normal druids. They can dual wield pretty darn well with Belm in the offhand. Ironskin gives survivability. If outdoors, call lightning is ridiculous. Inspect plague shuts down spellcasters. And of course, healing.

    Fighter/Cleric: For when you just want to smash a skull

    Finally there are fighter/clerics. I'm playing one now and it is fun...but they lack the survivability of the other 2. However, making up for that is their offensive cabilities.

    - Draw upon holy might = easy 25 strength
    - Righteous magic = upgraded DuHM, for max damage each hit. Can you say "ouch"? It even stacks with DuHM, as RM gives strength, max damage and temporary hit points. DuHM still gives dex and con bonuses.
    - Physical mirror is hilarious against ranged enemies.
    - Protection from evil 10ft radius is a great party buff spell.
    - Eventually getting armor of faith with defender of easthaven gives some tankability.
    - And of course, healing.

    And the RP!

    Fighter/Mage just screams "elf" to me.
    Fighter/Druid is "half-elf" only. I've personally never been a fan of half-elves...but some interesting RPing opportunity.
    Fighter/Cleric just screams "dwarf."

    Where the elf is self-absorbed and puts all of his spells into protecting himself and having contingency plans for when things go wrong (see what I did there?) the dwarf buffs and heals his entire team. Where the elf focuses on swinging as fast as possible, moving as a blur, the dwarf lands a few solid hits for maximum effectiveness. Where the elf folds like wet paper when his spells runs out (ie: relies on his contingency and a quick casting of stoneskin for defense) the dwarf relies on damage reduction and self-healing.

    Very different mindsets. Very different playstyles. I recommend doing all of the above!

    In fact, my current IWD party has an elven fighter-mage, a half-orc fighter-druid and a dwarven fighter-cleric
    Topped off with a halfling cleric-thief, dragon desciple and a half-elven bard

    There was some EEkeepering involved, but it's a fun party.
    And how do the three play for you? Which one is your MVP?
    Hard to tell, the FTR/Mage has the most kills.
    The Bers/druid hits the hardest.
    The dwarf is an obvious tank.
    The addition of cleric to the halfling lost the longbow, so a lot of apr at range less, but it is good to have all the options of a cleric taped to a thief.
    The bard is obviously good to give bonus, but a nice addition in the ranged attack camp as well
    The dragon desciple is a bit lacking, don't know how I'll fix that.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I did a comparison of Fighter/Druids and Fighter/Clerics for damage output at every stage of the game. Gnasher, Belm, Flail of Ages, Defender of Easthaven, Draw Upon Holy Might, Righteous Magic, Haste and Improved Haste. Sometimes one edged out over the other, but they were pretty much dead even over the course of the game.
    gorgonzolaAbi_Dalzim
  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    The problem is that the classes can't be really examined equally because the magical cleric weapons are underwhelming compared to the edged options. No blunt speed weapon for example. Would a speed staff be totally out of line?
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    edited August 2016

    I did a comparison of Fighter/Druids and Fighter/Clerics for damage output at every stage of the game. Gnasher, Belm, Flail of Ages, Defender of Easthaven, Draw Upon Holy Might, Righteous Magic, Haste and Improved Haste. Sometimes one edged out over the other, but they were pretty much dead even over the course of the game.

    Seems logical, the +1APR weapon of the Druid and the better offensive buffs+ better weapons of the Cleric give similar dmg outputs.
    Imo the thing that make the F/C better until 6M xp is FoA that slows the enemies, is not related with the damage output but very strong.
    At 6Mxp suddenly the F/D surpasses the F/C as he jumps from 1 to 6 lev 7 slots. Deva, Elemental Prince, Implosion, Nature's Beauty, Fire Storm, Shield of the Archons, Creeping Doom are wonderful spells, having 6 of them x day is really strong.

    EDIT: initial quote added.




    Post edited by gorgonzola on
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,428
    @gorgonzola Righteous Magic maxes out damage rolls, though, and raises strength higher than a mage could get theirs, so those need to be taken into account too.
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    edited August 2016
    @Abi_Dalzim I know.
    I tell you what happened, I was answering to

    And I haven't really done it, but Righteous Magic plus GWW sounds devastating.

    with

    Sounds, but War Hammer rolls 1d4,................
    ...............................................................................................................................................
    ...... 1.5 or 2.5 is not a big difference, useful but not game changing.

    and when my post was almost ready I had a long call at the telephone. Then I posted without noticing that there were new posts.
    My point was that RM does not make a F/C with RM much stronger then a F/C with DuHM, not comparing him to a F/M.

    Now I have edited my previous post to avoid that other readers get confused.

    Edit: I noticed that something similar happened when I was answering to semiticgod, quote added also there.
    I am too slow typing...
    And the fact that when you post the boards show you your post right under the last post that was there when you had loaded the page, hiding the posts posted while you are reading does not help as you have to reload the page to see what has happened...

    Post edited by gorgonzola on
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