I think it's largely the whole pc/console thing and it's the other way around more often imo. Personally I started on JRPGs which I loved as a kid and was largely unaware of the other style. I think BG was the first I played. Soon after that I did get kind of bored with JRPGs, as I felt like they weren't really evolving anymore, while WRPGs were getting better and betterer. Idk if I'd still feel that way but the last time I played a 'new' one, it was FF8 and I never finished because I felt like replaying an older one would actually be more fun.
Yeah I think it goes both ways, I've certainly seen more than enough scorn for JRPGs over the years as well.
Personally I've started leaning more and more towards WRGs as I've gotten older and I can't stand to play with a cast of teenagers anymore. I've read enough manga and seen enough anime to know I've gotten incredibly tired of the whole ''shounen'' theme that manga/anime usually have in common with a lot of these games. There are games that move away from the mainstream formula of Final Fantasy games, that I find somewhat tolerable though.
It also takes too much time to do the side quests and hidden stuff. Not to mention some of it is just plain absurd.
Take Final Fantasy XII for instance. Getting the ultimate weapon there, involves some stuff with Opening and not opening specific chests in the game in some order. If you fail to do that, you can still get it through some minigame or something, but from what I remember the % chance for that is quite low.
So I'm left asking myself...How the fuck am I supposed to acquire that weapon on the first run without a guide... That kind of design strikes me as questionable. In addition to a lot of other quests which you might spend 20-50 hours figuring out, only to receive diminishing returns.
I'm playing through FFIX for the first time atm and it's wonderful. I normally HATE Jrpg characters, but I really like this cast a lot. I'm just hoping there aren't too many "grind walls" as grinding has made me stop playing actually good games because it bothers me so much to just kill the same enemies for an hour+.
Yes, I really, really do not like anime aesthetics in any form. I tolerated it for FFVII because the gameplay was mostly good (if you ignore the chokobo racing nonsense), but that's my limit.
Agree with everybody that it is almost always WRPG fans who hate on JRPGs, not the reverse. Still, the one thing I've seen a bunch of JRPG fans complain about with WRPGs is that they are almost all set in Pseudo-Medieval Europe with knights and castles and brown everything. JRPGs tend towards more colourful worlds, are unsurprisingly prone to looking more East Asian than European in various elements, and are prone to using more varied timeframes (quite a few JRPGs use a Renaissanceish setting with guns, for instance, whereas the only WRPG that springs to mind off-hand as doing so is Fable).
Of course, that's just a general trend, not absolute. Mass Effect (pause for debate as to whether it was a WRPG) was obviously not medieval, nor was it overly suffused with brown.
By the by, convention pen and paper roleplaying is routinely done with pregenerated characters (the original Dragonlance modules encouraged it too, amongst other examples), and I'm not aware of anyone calling that "not roleplaying".
Edit: Whoops, didn't realise how insanely old a necro this was. Won't respond anymore.
Just because I don't like animie doesn't mean I do like pseudo-medievil. Both settings are tired cliches. I just prefer characters to look human and wear gear that looks functional, whatever the setting.
What I really want is a BG style isometric party based crpg with a SF space opera setting. Guardians-of-the-Galaxygate.
You know what is ironic? Final Fantasy I was HEAVILY based on DnD.
But also Planescape: Torment had some influences from Final Fantasy VII (officially confirmed, where do you think those long spell animations came from?).
About FF1, the character creation (Monk, Thief, Red Mage=Bard), the monsters (Tiamat, Bahamut, Beholders, Mind Flayers, Marilith etc), the Vancian-like magic system (no mana or MP back then) and generally the mission structure where it was more like quests, rather a continuous story.
I like both. But even one of the most known, famous and popular JRPGs ever, was once based on DnD. And then, one of the most influential WRPGs ever, was influenced by FF7.
"*Slight spoilers*
I have played FF7 (and loved it), and I think the influences it had on PST was the spells (which Ken Lee designed, and did a damn good job), and the fact that each type of player character would stick with one 'type' of weapon based on their personality or their personal preference.
As for the amnesia, Annah and Grace/Tifa and Aeris, as well as the three incarnations at the end -- I assure you that was not based on FF7.
Anyway as far as this being a thread to discuss JRPGs, I've played... many... there are so many different types, but suffice to say a lot of the major ones have been mentioned, FF series, chrono series, Xeno series... etc
Generally a lot of people who don't like certain JRPGs like some other one, I've found.
You know what is ironic? Final Fantasy I was HEAVILY based on DnD.
But also Planescape: Torment had some influences from Final Fantasy VII (officially confirmed, where do you think those long spell animations came from?).
About FF1, the character creation (Monk, Thief, Red Mage=Bard), the monsters (Tiamat, Bahamut, Beholders, Mind Flayers, Marilith etc), the Vancian-like magic system (no mana or MP back then) and generally the mission structure where it was more like quests, rather a continuous story.
I like both. But even one of the most known, famous and popular JRPGs ever, was once based on DnD. And then, one of the most influential WRPGs ever, was influenced by FF7.
"*Slight spoilers*
I have played FF7 (and loved it), and I think the influences it had on PST was the spells (which Ken Lee designed, and did a damn good job), and the fact that each type of player character would stick with one 'type' of weapon based on their personality or their personal preference.
As for the amnesia, Annah and Grace/Tifa and Aeris, as well as the three incarnations at the end -- I assure you that was not based on FF7.
You know what is ironic? Final Fantasy I was HEAVILY based on DnD.
But also Planescape: Torment had some influences from Final Fantasy VII (officially confirmed, where do you think those long spell animations came from?).
About FF1, the character creation (Monk, Thief, Red Mage=Bard), the monsters (Tiamat, Bahamut, Beholders, Mind Flayers, Marilith etc), the Vancian-like magic system (no mana or MP back then) and generally the mission structure where it was more like quests, rather a continuous story.
I like both. But even one of the most known, famous and popular JRPGs ever, was once based on DnD. And then, one of the most influential WRPGs ever, was influenced by FF7.
I wouldn't so much say that it's JRPG fans vs CRPG fans, it's console gamers vs PC gamers. I know several people irl who enjoy both, but all those who prefer JRPGs are console gamers.
Either way, I am actually kinda glad that JRPGs are more popular. The mainstream doesn't deserve games as amazing as Baldur's Gate and co. I mean, it says a lot that the most successful CRPGs of the past years double as fully fletched hack & slashers and first person shooters.
Let me sit here in my special snowflake globe and enjoy a genre for which the majority of people lack the interlect and good taste to enjoy >:T
I wouldn't so much say that it's JRPG fans vs CRPG fans, it's console gamers vs PC gamers. I know several people irl who enjoy both, but all those who prefer JRPGs are console gamers.
Either way, I am actually kinda glad that JRPGs are more popular. The mainstream doesn't deserve games as amazing as Baldur's Gate and co. I mean, it says a lot that the most successful CRPGs of the past years double as fully fletched hack & slashers and first person shooters.
Let me sit here in my special snowflake globe and enjoy a genre for which the majority of people lack the interlect and good taste to enjoy >:T
I wouldn't so much say that it's JRPG fans vs CRPG fans, it's console gamers vs PC gamers. I know several people irl who enjoy both, but all those who prefer JRPGs are console gamers.
Either way, I am actually kinda glad that JRPGs are more popular. The mainstream doesn't deserve games as amazing as Baldur's Gate and co. I mean, it says a lot that the most successful CRPGs of the past years double as fully fletched hack & slashers and first person shooters.
Let me sit here in my special snowflake globe and enjoy a genre for which the majority of people lack the interlect and good taste to enjoy >:T
IKR. I knew this douche (who nicknamed himself after a Gundam Wing character) who is really big on jrpgs and consoles and despizes PC gaming and western superheroes, mostly because he grew up in the 90's where anime and japanese videogames got mainstream popularity and american cartoons and comics were not really good except for a few ones.
@ShapiroKeatsDarkMage Too be fair, I was the biggest weeb in my teenage years, but I mostly grew up on PC games and the GameBoy. I started most of my console gaming considerably later and I am still really picky when it comes to console games. I mean, some of my favourite games are JRPGs, Pokémon, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Final Fantasy 9 ...
But yeah, my point is: When someone doesn't give classic CRPGs a chance, they don't deserve them. I know it makes me sound like a total snob, but they are an aquired taste >.>
I wouldn't so much say that it's JRPG fans vs CRPG fans, it's console gamers vs PC gamers. I know several people irl who enjoy both, but all those who prefer JRPGs are console gamers.
That's not really true though, as the recent burst of JRPG releases on Steam can attest (and as someone who likes the Hyperdimension Neptunia series, every place I know of that talks about it has been swamped with johnny-come-lately Steam gamers, easily recognisable due to their reactions to some translation differences between the earlier and later games).
If JRPG gamers lean more towards console, it's only to the extent that not many JRPGs get a PC release because PC gaming is not really a big thing in Japan. So it's the only option, more or less, even if that is starting to change.
Either way, I am actually kinda glad that JRPGs are more popular. The mainstream doesn't deserve games as amazing as Baldur's Gate and co. I mean, it says a lot that the most successful CRPGs of the past years double as fully fletched hack & slashers and first person shooters.
Let me sit here in my special snowflake globe and enjoy a genre for which the majority of people lack the interlect and good taste to enjoy >:T
I can't quite agree with your premises here, though.
1) JRPGs are not even nearly as popular in the west as WRPGs. Elder Scrolls, Witcher, Bioware stuff, Fallout - all much, much bigger than any JRPG except (arguably) Final Fantasy. Much hand-wringing has been done about the fall of JRPGs (and the Japanese game industry in general) in the last decade, from the forefront of the industry to a niche genre.
2) JRPGs are way more likely than WRPGs to retain an "old school" style of strategic turn-based combat. Indeed, even ones that look on the surface like a shooter like Valkyria Chronicles, have way more in common with Baldur's Gate than they do with Mass Effect, combat design-wise. There are exceptions on both sides, of course.
3) Baldur's Gate was REALLY popular in its time. I knew about it when it came out and I wasn't really playing PC games (or D&D games) of any sort at that time. The brand name was even spun off into action-y console games. It's only obscure now due to age, but even then I'd say it's a lot better known than Fallout was before Bethesda rebooted it. So it was pretty mainstream, IMO - it's just that the "mainstream" for PC games was smaller then. I'll grant it wasn't nearly as big as FFVII even at the time, though.
I wouldn't so much say that it's JRPG fans vs CRPG fans, it's console gamers vs PC gamers. I know several people irl who enjoy both, but all those who prefer JRPGs are console gamers.
That's not really true though, as the recent burst of JRPG releases on Steam can attest (and as someone who likes the Hyperdimension Neptunia series, every place I know of that talks about it has been swamped with johnny-come-lately Steam gamers, easily recognisable due to their reactions to some translation differences between the earlier and later games).
If JRPG gamers lean more towards console, it's only to the extent that not many JRPGs get a PC release because PC gaming is not really a big thing in Japan. So it's the only option, more or less, even if that is starting to change.
On the contrary, PC gaming may even top consoles in Japan. It's just that the majory of JRPG's for PC, both the indie kind and professional titles, are intended for Japanese audience only. Meaning they don't even get translated for western releases. This of course also helps to cut down development costs for said games. Which I suppose is a good thing for smaller companies.
There are also dozens of JRPG games which were originally released for Japanese PC users. But then received console ports that, eventually, ended up on the western market.
So it's not that the Japanese don't have many JRPG's for PC on their own, but that most outside of Japan can't purchase their games in their native language. Outside of maybe steam and gog perhaps, that is.
I'm the only one who wonders why most JRPGs have a cast of only human characters?
This is partially true. Not only for JRPGs, mind you. But KRPGs, Wuxia and a couple other Asian game genres as well. Worse still is the seemingly all popular 'High Humans' variant, wich are really nothing more than humans with the lifespan and magical affinity of elves.
Although, to be fair, Western RPGs suffer from this more than enough as well.
I say down with the human supremancy in games around the globe!
I'm the only one who wonders why most JRPGs have a cast of only human characters?
This is partially true. Not only for JRPGs, mind you. But KRPGs, Wuxia and a couple other Asian game genres as well. Worse still is the seemingly all popular 'High Humans' variant, wich are really nothing more than humans with the lifespan and magical affinity of elves.
Although, to be fair, Western RPGs suffer from this more than enough as well.
I say down with the human supremancy in games around the globe!
Anthros/ Animals: - Kimahri Ronso (Final Fantasy X) Ronso (blue, horned lion-anthro) - Frog (Chrono Trigger) Frog-anthro - Freya (Final Fantasy IX) Burmecian (rat-anthro) - Mog (Final Fantasy VI) What ever moogles are. - Umaro (Final Fantasy VI) Yeti - Red XIII (Final Fantasy IX) Some kind of weird looking lion - Kevin (Seiken Densetu 3) Effectively a werewolf - Micah (Rune Factory 3) Effectively a weresheep - Bow (Breath of Fire 2) Grassrunner (dog-anthro) - Rand (Breath of Fire 2) Shell clan (rhino-pangolin-anthro) - Katt (Breath of Fire 2) Woren (tiger-anthro) - Sten (Breath of Fire 2) Highlander (monkey-anthro) - Jean (Breath of Fire 2) Creeping clan (frog-anthro)
Kemonomimi: - Fran (Final Fantasy XII) Viera (rabbit ears) - Zidane (Final Fantasy IX) Genome (monkey tail) - Amber (Rune Factory 4) Butterfly antenea and sometimes wings - Leon (Rune Factory 4) Fox ears and tail - Dylas (Rune Factory 4) Horse ears and tail - Nina (Breath of Fire 2) Wing clan (bird wings)
Dwarves: - Doug & Bado (Rune Factory 4) Though they really don't look the part ...
Superhumans/ Great old ones: - Terra (Final Fantasy VI) Half-esper - Garnet & Eiko (Final Fantasy IX) Summoners - Yuna (Final Fantasy X) Half-Al Bhed - Rikku (Final Fantasy X) Al Bhed
Other: - Quinna (Final Fantasy IX) Qu. Whatever those are. - Vivi (Final Fantasy IX) Black mage. - Popoi (Secret of Mana) Sprite.
Hm? Oh I was just talking about RPGs in general I avoid them (Like I'll probs never play DA2 again after my first run due to human protagonist), not speaking of JRPGs specifically in this case FFIX is my favorite FF game in the main series (FREYA IS THE BEESSTTT).
Also I've been looking into Rune Factory 4 for a while now, would you recommend it?
@Buttercheese True, I'm speechless you forgot to mention real classics like Harvest Moon, Zelda and Disgaea. But that's about it. There are still more human centred Asian RPGs out there than non-human ones.
Comments
Personally I've started leaning more and more towards WRGs as I've gotten older and I can't stand to play with a cast of teenagers anymore. I've read enough manga and seen enough anime to know I've gotten incredibly tired of the whole ''shounen'' theme that manga/anime usually have in common with a lot of these games. There are games that move away from the mainstream formula of Final Fantasy games, that I find somewhat tolerable though.
It also takes too much time to do the side quests and hidden stuff. Not to mention some of it is just plain absurd.
Take Final Fantasy XII for instance. Getting the ultimate weapon there, involves some stuff with Opening and not opening specific chests in the game in some order. If you fail to do that, you can still get it through some minigame or something, but from what I remember the % chance for that is quite low.
So I'm left asking myself...How the fuck am I supposed to acquire that weapon on the first run without a guide... That kind of design strikes me as questionable. In addition to a lot of other quests which you might spend 20-50 hours figuring out, only to receive diminishing returns.
Of course, that's just a general trend, not absolute. Mass Effect (pause for debate as to whether it was a WRPG) was obviously not medieval, nor was it overly suffused with brown.
By the by, convention pen and paper roleplaying is routinely done with pregenerated characters (the original Dragonlance modules encouraged it too, amongst other examples), and I'm not aware of anyone calling that "not roleplaying".
Edit: Whoops, didn't realise how insanely old a necro this was. Won't respond anymore.
What I really want is a BG style isometric party based crpg with a SF space opera setting. Guardians-of-the-Galaxygate.
Final Fantasy I was HEAVILY based on DnD.
But also Planescape: Torment had some influences from Final Fantasy VII (officially confirmed, where do you think those long spell animations came from?).
About FF1, the character creation (Monk, Thief, Red Mage=Bard), the monsters (Tiamat, Bahamut, Beholders, Mind Flayers, Marilith etc), the Vancian-like magic system (no mana or MP back then) and generally the mission structure where it was more like quests, rather a continuous story.
I like both. But even one of the most known, famous and popular JRPGs ever, was once based on DnD.
And then, one of the most influential WRPGs ever, was influenced by FF7.
"*Slight spoilers*
I have played FF7 (and loved it), and I think the influences it had on PST was the spells (which Ken Lee designed, and did a damn good job), and the fact that each type of player character would stick with one 'type' of weapon based on their personality or their personal preference.
As for the amnesia, Annah and Grace/Tifa and Aeris, as well as the three incarnations at the end -- I assure you that was not based on FF7.
(Other spoilers about PST)
Hope that helps,
Chris"
http://www.shsforums.net/topic/38511-chris-avellone-said-about/
http://finalfantasy.istad.org/2013/01/final-fantasy-vs-dnd/
Not to mention, the reverse is also true.
Generally a lot of people who don't like certain JRPGs like some other one, I've found.
I know several people irl who enjoy both, but all those who prefer JRPGs are console gamers.
Either way, I am actually kinda glad that JRPGs are more popular.
The mainstream doesn't deserve games as amazing as Baldur's Gate and co.
I mean, it says a lot that the most successful CRPGs of the past years double as fully fletched hack & slashers and first person shooters.
Let me sit here in my special snowflake globe and enjoy a genre for which the majority of people lack the interlect and good taste to enjoy >:T
I mean, some of my favourite games are JRPGs, Pokémon, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Final Fantasy 9 ...
But yeah, my point is: When someone doesn't give classic CRPGs a chance, they don't deserve them. I know it makes me sound like a total snob, but they are an aquired taste >.>
If JRPG gamers lean more towards console, it's only to the extent that not many JRPGs get a PC release because PC gaming is not really a big thing in Japan. So it's the only option, more or less, even if that is starting to change. I can't quite agree with your premises here, though.
1) JRPGs are not even nearly as popular in the west as WRPGs. Elder Scrolls, Witcher, Bioware stuff, Fallout - all much, much bigger than any JRPG except (arguably) Final Fantasy. Much hand-wringing has been done about the fall of JRPGs (and the Japanese game industry in general) in the last decade, from the forefront of the industry to a niche genre.
2) JRPGs are way more likely than WRPGs to retain an "old school" style of strategic turn-based combat. Indeed, even ones that look on the surface like a shooter like Valkyria Chronicles, have way more in common with Baldur's Gate than they do with Mass Effect, combat design-wise. There are exceptions on both sides, of course.
3) Baldur's Gate was REALLY popular in its time. I knew about it when it came out and I wasn't really playing PC games (or D&D games) of any sort at that time. The brand name was even spun off into action-y console games. It's only obscure now due to age, but even then I'd say it's a lot better known than Fallout was before Bethesda rebooted it. So it was pretty mainstream, IMO - it's just that the "mainstream" for PC games was smaller then. I'll grant it wasn't nearly as big as FFVII even at the time, though.
There are also dozens of JRPG games which were originally released for Japanese PC users. But then received console ports that, eventually, ended up on the western market.
So it's not that the Japanese don't have many JRPG's for PC on their own, but that most outside of Japan can't purchase their games in their native language. Outside of maybe steam and gog perhaps, that is.
https://rockpapershotgun.com/2015/07/14/japanese-pc-games/
kotaku.com/5977001/why-pc-gaming-is-still-niche-in-japan
It's true there's a rich tradition of visual novels and indie games on PC, but those are niche markets even there.
Although, to be fair, Western RPGs suffer from this more than enough as well.
I say down with the human supremancy in games around the globe!
Elves:
- Carlie (Seiken Densetsu 3) Half-elf
- Margaret, Illuminata and Raven (Rune Factory 4)
- Arche Klein (Tales of Phantasia) Half-elf
Effectively elves:
- Purim (Secret of Mana)
- Angela (Seiken Densetsu 3)
- Magus (Chrono Trigger)
Anthros/ Animals:
- Kimahri Ronso (Final Fantasy X) Ronso (blue, horned lion-anthro)
- Frog (Chrono Trigger) Frog-anthro
- Freya (Final Fantasy IX) Burmecian (rat-anthro)
- Mog (Final Fantasy VI) What ever moogles are.
- Umaro (Final Fantasy VI) Yeti
- Red XIII (Final Fantasy IX) Some kind of weird looking lion
- Kevin (Seiken Densetu 3) Effectively a werewolf
- Micah (Rune Factory 3) Effectively a weresheep
- Bow (Breath of Fire 2) Grassrunner (dog-anthro)
- Rand (Breath of Fire 2) Shell clan (rhino-pangolin-anthro)
- Katt (Breath of Fire 2) Woren (tiger-anthro)
- Sten (Breath of Fire 2) Highlander (monkey-anthro)
- Jean (Breath of Fire 2) Creeping clan (frog-anthro)
Kemonomimi:
- Fran (Final Fantasy XII) Viera (rabbit ears)
- Zidane (Final Fantasy IX) Genome (monkey tail)
- Amber (Rune Factory 4) Butterfly antenea and sometimes wings
- Leon (Rune Factory 4) Fox ears and tail
- Dylas (Rune Factory 4) Horse ears and tail
- Nina (Breath of Fire 2) Wing clan (bird wings)
Dwarves:
- Doug & Bado (Rune Factory 4) Though they really don't look the part ...
Robots/ Androids:
- Robo (Chrono Trigger)
- Cait Sith (Final Fantasy IX)
Superhumans/ Great old ones:
- Terra (Final Fantasy VI) Half-esper
- Garnet & Eiko (Final Fantasy IX) Summoners
- Yuna (Final Fantasy X) Half-Al Bhed
- Rikku (Final Fantasy X) Al Bhed
Other:
- Quinna (Final Fantasy IX) Qu. Whatever those are.
- Vivi (Final Fantasy IX) Black mage.
- Popoi (Secret of Mana) Sprite.
NB, aren't Red XIII and Cait Sith from FFVII, not IX?
Did I make y'all speechless or what
Also I've been looking into Rune Factory 4 for a while now, would you recommend it?
But that's about it. There are still more human centred Asian RPGs out there than non-human ones.