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Visual range and long range spells

There are many spells in the game with a very long range. For instance, Comet has a range of 270 ft. Summon Planetar has a range of 120 ft. However, the visual range of casters seems to be around 40 ft, and they don't seem to be able to cast anything beyond their visual range. So what's the meaning of these long range numbers?

Comments

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    It may well just be a holdover from PnP 2nd edition rules, not taking into account the limitations of the engine (i.e. needing visual range).
  •  TheArtisan TheArtisan Member Posts: 3,277
    Just checked the spell files - Comet has a casting range of 50, and Summon Planetar has a range of 40, contrary to their descriptions. I assume all that is just flavor text.
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    For testing purposes I bumped a few spells (Fireball, Invisible Stalker) to a 500 range and tried to cast them. And the caster still had to move until the target point was in visual range. Maybe it's the fog of war? So I casted Farsight on the area and spawned a Wizard Eye to be sure: but no, it was useless and the caster still needs visual range.

    And yet, aTweaks' Dimension Door has a range of 900 and the caster instantly teleports to this location without needing visual range.

    Perhaps it's effect-dependent?
  •  TheArtisan TheArtisan Member Posts: 3,277
    @Kurona IIRC there's a setting which removes the need for line of sight, which will also allow spells to be cast through walls and anywhere within the specified range. I haven't played with it much but the effect should work for any ground spell. Maybe even targeted spells.
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    @Artemius_I You're right, it's the "No LOS required" flag in the main spell block. So it's just the spell descriptions being wrong in the end...
  • ConjurerDragonConjurerDragon Member Posts: 110

    @Kurona IIRC there's a setting which removes the need for line of sight, which will also allow spells to be cast through walls and anywhere within the specified range. I haven't played with it much but the effect should work for any ground spell. Maybe even targeted spells.

    I see a huge difference between e.g. casting a fireball at a distance of 400 feet despite visual range only around 50 feet when the line of sight is unobstructed and casting the same fireball through a wall in a dungeon.

    A wizard should be able to cast spells at the maximum allowed range of the spell if there is no obstacle between him and the spell, even if visual range does not allow him to personally see if any possible target is there, but removing the limitation of line of sight and so allowing to cast through walls is more weird that it’s now.
  •  TheArtisan TheArtisan Member Posts: 3,277
    @ConjurerDragon I'm not saying it's a good idea, just that it can be done if the desire to do so is present.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    Shouldn't wizard eye help you extend your range? In that case it would become a very powerful spell
  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 806
    Does anybody know the distance covered by the visual range?
  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 806
    A bit of bumping here. Something seems to be wrong in the game, but it's not clear what. I see two options:
    1. The spell descriptions are wrong. If the description says that the range is longer than the visual range of the caster (whatever that might be), that is wrong and the right description would be "Visual range of the caster" or its numerical equivalent.
    2. The game engine is wrong. If the description says range=300 ft, the correct behaviour is to allow the caster to cast at a spot that far away, even if she cannot see the spot.
    What's your take?
    And, of course, can any scholar of the realms tell us how long the visual range is?
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  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    You can modify a character's visual range using a custom item, spell, or EEKeeper. It still won't reach around corners, but if you expand a caster's visual range, the only limit is the spell's range, which can vary. A spell range of 300, in that case, would actually matter.
  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    Take your sanctuaried cleric and use him instead of a wizard eye. I've cast spells against enemies that way or used wands
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    So Wizard Eye isn't useless as I thought.
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    I tested all this earlier in the thread.
    Kurona said:

    For testing purposes I bumped a few spells (Fireball, Invisible Stalker) to a 500 range and tried to cast them. And the caster still had to move until the target point was in visual range. Maybe it's the fog of war? So I casted Farsight on the area and spawned a Wizard Eye to be sure: but no, it was useless and the caster still needs visual range.

    Unless "No LoS required" is ticked in the spell flags or the caster's actual visual range is boosted with an item or spell (Farsight doesn't work like that and Wizard Eye is its own creature) no spell can go past 30-40 units.
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    So Wizard Eye is useless as I thought.
  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 806

    You can modify a character's visual range using a custom item, spell, or EEKeeper.

    What spell or item? Also, how would you do that with EEKeeper? That might give us a clue of what the visual range is.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Raduziel: It's not useless. It just doesn't have that particular use. I've used it to help my other summons fight enemies while my party is at a safe distance. Without the Wizard Eye, I couldn't see what was happening to my summons. I use invisible party members and familiars for the same purpose; both work fine. One advantage of Wizard Eye is that it's safer than sending a party member or familiar into the fray (invisibility won't block area-effect spells or demons or liches or Planetars). Also, Wizard Eye is more flexible than Farsight.

    @Alonso: Documentation for Near Infinity suggests the visual range is something like 15. I'd guess @subtledoctor had it right, at 30. Unconfirmed.

    To use a custom item (easier than a custom spell), just create a new item in Near Infinity and add a new effect using the "Visual range modifier" opcode, opcode 262. I think you can modify it with either 0 or 1 in the "Parameter 2" field, meaning you can add to a character's visual range or simply set it to a given value. You can set the effect to "Instant, permanent until death" to make it permanent even after you unequip the item.

    I've used this method to bump a character's visual range up to 100, and it stretches very far across the map and also allows you to cast spells much farther away than normal.

    To add the effect in EEKeeper, you would need to add a new effect in the "Effects" tab. I wasn't able to get it to stick (opcode 262, represented in EEKeeper in hexadecimal code as 106 in the "Type" field, as the code would keep changing back for some reason... some weird bug. But without that bug, you could add the effect to a character permanently by re-creating these parameters in EEKeeper:

    Creating a custom item is easier, though.

    Also, tweaking the "No LoS" flag in a spell indeed lets you cast it outside your line of sight. Confirmed.
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    @semiticgod

    Probably in a brand new game. But let's be honest: we already know where every monster is, what they are and that they can do.

    Like I was telling to a friend of mine during a drunk talk: we'll never have the feeling of playing Baldur's Gate for the first time again.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Raduziel said:


    Like I was telling to a friend of mine during a drunk talk: we'll never have the feeling of playing Baldur's Gate for the first time again.

    Have you played Siege of Dragonspear?
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919

    Raduziel said:


    Like I was telling to a friend of mine during a drunk talk: we'll never have the feeling of playing Baldur's Gate for the first time again.

    Have you played Siege of Dragonspear?
    I will say that it is the closest I have gotten so far, but that first time playing BG1 was pretty special. :)
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    @semiticgod

    Been there, saw that :smiley:

    By the way, SoD was the reason why we were talking about this. I was telling him that I didn't care if it would be great or lame, I was just excited with the idea of playing a brand new SoD.

    But I have a method to verify if a spell is useless or not: as a Sorcerer would you get it?
  • JumboWheat01JumboWheat01 Member Posts: 1,028
    Raduziel said:

    But I have a method to verify if a spell is useless or not: as a Sorcerer would you get it?

    That doesn't ALWAYS work. If a spell is situationally useful, but not useful all the time, I won't get it as a Sorcerer, but I'd LOVE to have it on a Wizard, or a Bard. Actually, the main thing I look for on a Sorcerer is "Does it scale?"
  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 806
    Raduziel said:

    we'll never have the feeling of playing Baldur's Gate for the first time again.

    I'll make you jealous: I'm having that feeling right now. I'm playing BG2 for the second time, but since the first time was about 13 years ago, I barely remember anything. Maybe when I'm finished I'll wait another 13 years... ;)
  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 806

    To add the effect in EEKeeper, you would need to add a new effect in the "Effects" tab. I wasn't able to get it to stick (opcode 262, represented in EEKeeper in hexadecimal code as 106 in the "Type" field, as the code would keep changing back for some reason... some weird bug. But without that bug, you could add the effect to a character permanently by re-creating these parameters in EEKeeper

    It worked for me! At first I tried NearInfinity, but I have never used it before and I found it overwhelming. But then I tried your instructions for EEKeeper and it worked like a charm. I've seen your version (1.0.3.2) is slightly older than mine (1.0.3.5). Maybe the new version fixed the bug.

    Anyway, the results are quite surprising... and confusing, I'm afraid.

    The attached game is prepared to test several visual ranges. I assigned visual ranges to each party member as follows: Minsc, 9. Jan, 12. Aerie, 15. Keldorn, 20. Nalia, 30. Charname, no modification. Moving the guys a bit around the place and comparing their visual ranges it seems clear that the default value is 15. Actually, EEKeeper itself gives you a hint of this: "The Visual Range parameter seems to be in the 0-15 interval".

    This suggests that a spell with a range of 15 could reach the edge of the caster's visual range. However, that is not the case. There is only one spell with range 15 in the game: Haste. If you try to cast it at the edge of your visual range, you will actually have to walk a few steps in that direction. Something similar happens with a spell with range 25 (Slow), although it takes less steps for this one. Looks like the minimum range required to cast a spell at the edge of your visual range is 30 (Fireball).

    The whole thing is pretty confusing. For gaming purposes the fact that the visual range is internally represented as 15 is irrelevant. What matters is the range of spells compared to the visual range of the caster. From that perspective, it seems safe to say that the visual range is 30.
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