Skip to content

Make Durlag's Goblet unsellabe and therefore unrechargeable

bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
it's an incredibly powerful item (instant full heal) and you can get infinite uses out of it because it's cheap to recharge (~1k gp), since it's "cursed" (panics the user), but it doesn't do anything to protected characters (for example Dorn who is the prime candidate anyway and is immune because of his kit)

Comments

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    I think that some people enjoy having this ridiculously overpowered full-heal item that they can use 100 times. It would probably get boring eventually, but it would be fun for a while.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    edited May 2016
    cheating is fun for a while too. the game is not about being fun for a while, it's about being fun for the whole time.

    there are several solutions:

    1. make the goblet unsellabe
    2. make the goblet very expensive
    3. make the undesirable effect harder to avoid (make the ordinary protection from fear not work against this form of panic, change it from fear to berserk or maybe even stun etc.)
    Post edited by bob_veng on
  • jtthjtth Member Posts: 171
    So don't use it.

    The game stops being fun if you're powergaming at all unless you're playing at obscene difficulty with mods.

    This is a lot like saying you think difficulty should be rebalanced around your core difficulty solo k/t.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    but i want to use it.
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,297
    Those kind of changes belong in a mod, not a patch.
  •  TheArtisan TheArtisan Member Posts: 3,277
    I don't get what's so hard about players policing themselves once in a while.
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,297

    I don't get what's so hard about players policing themselves once in a while.

    I think one needs to differ between exploits that you have to go for and those were you need to actively avoid them.

    The latter include the now fixed APR bug with spent weapons like darts or MMM as well as (for me) the faketalk thing, which I sometimes trigger by mistake. Those need to be fixed, the first category is fine in a mostly singleplayer game.
  •  TheArtisan TheArtisan Member Posts: 3,277
    That's my point. This isn't a hard exploit to avoid. Fake talk was a bug that turned half the game into a joke, but no one complained because you had to try and get it. Sure, there are game breakers that make certain spells broken and unusable for 'fair-play' players but is there anything to be gained from removing these easy to avoid cheats? It'd be like completely disabling the cheat console.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    Ammar said:

    Those kind of changes belong in a mod, not a patch.

    i disagree. when something's broken, you fix it.
  • jtthjtth Member Posts: 171
    Reselling items to recharge them is exploitative behavior anyway. If you're going to do that you've opened up the game to cheesy powergaming. Why take that way of playing away from people who want it (or need it in crazy SCS LoB runs)?
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    i didn't know that's it's exploitative. might that after all just be your opinion?
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    edited May 2016
    On a recent playthrough, I tried actually using the healing potions and having my cleric memorize buffs and defensive spells instead. The number of potions felt about right there, I had enough but wasn't swimming in them. I used Durlag's goblet once, in a desperate situation and it did end up saving charname who got healed and fled with the toughest enemy (Aec'Letec) in hot pursuit, leaving the rest of the party alone to beat him down.
    Post edited by mf2112 on
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,297
    Halbazzar or Thalantyr being able to recharge magical items sounds reasonable to me. It is a bit strange that it also works with random innkeepers, but maybe they are well connected.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    edited May 2016
    doesn't matter, it's a well known feature of merchants, it's working as intended, you spend a lot of gold when you recharge, in fact recharging wands is more expensive than pretty much anything else. therefore it can not be an exploit in the context of other systems in the game.

    lets apply some logic here:

    1. buying a useful weapon costs = x
    2. buying a useful weapon creates utility = y
    3. buying a useful weapon is never an exploit (explanation not needed...i hope)
    4. an exploit is when you get a disproportionate amount of utility for the investment made, contrary to how the game was intended to be played by the developers
    5. recharging a wand costs ≥ x (i don't count weak wands here, they are irrelevant)
    6. recharging a wand generally, on average creates utility < y (can on occasion create more utility but generally gain more utility from a new shiny axe and other weapons you buy)
    7. being able to recharge wands is WAD
    ---
    recharging a wand is also not an exploit - because how can it be an exploit if it costs more than bying a weapon and produces less utility when buying a weapon is not an exploit?
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    That wand of cloudkill at the beginning of BG2 was extremely effective and with 50 charges was something I have leaned on a bit too heavily in some playthroughs. Way more effective than any weapon at that stage of the game, mobs simply went down.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    bob_veng said:

    recharging a wand generally, on average creates utility < y (can on occasion create more utility but generally gain more utility from a new shiny axe and other weapons you buy)

    What axe are you buying in BG1 that "creates more utility" than any fully charged Wand?
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    edited May 2016
    i'm not going to argue in specifics, if you disagree, that's okay

    edit: but tell me @joluv - is recharging a wand using an exploit?
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    I'm not sure, but I do know that purchasing magical weapons is an exploit.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    edited May 2016
    you are being unserious.

    @elminster
    do you have an opinion about Durlag's Goblet?
    it very cheap to recharge, just around 1000gp and you get 20 charges of instant healing to full health. it's the best wand (practically it is) and it's strangely cheap compared to the rest of powerful magical items you find.
    shouldn't it cost something like 10-20k?
  • ConjurerDragonConjurerDragon Member Posts: 110
    edited June 2016
    bob_veng said:

    i'm not going to argue in specifics, if you disagree, that's okay

    edit: but tell me @joluv - is recharging a wand using an exploit?

    The exploit is not recharging a wand. That was possible even in P&P AD&D
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Artifacts#Recharging_Magical_Items

    The exploit is to get wands recharged in mundane shops who are not run by high-level spellcasters for a cheap price. IMO going to Thalantyr, paying a reasonable price and having to wait a day or two (just like the wait until the Ankheg armour has been forged) until he´s finished would be o.k.
    See p. 134 of the old Book of Artifacts for the conditions set there to recharge something in that archive:
    https://dnd.rem.uz/Advanced D&D (unsorted)/
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    to devs, i think the best/simplest solution:

    please make the undesirable effect on this item something that actually debilitates a character. the ordinary fear doesn't cut it anymore. it worked somewhat in the original BG1 but it doesn't function well anymore.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    1x day + the existing fear & fatigue and/or stat drain look good, that would do the trick
Sign In or Register to comment.