Does anyone play as a Mage?
Mush_Mush
Member Posts: 476
I'm just curious if anyone actually plays as a pure Mage. With the general concensus being sorcerer/duals/kits/multis are technically better.
I personally like playing as a Mage, even as an experienced player but I kinda wish the class had some form of advantage for being pure that sets it aside from the others, because basically any Mage can benefit from starting as a different class then dualling early at virtually no cost.
For example a thief could fairly quickly get to level 4 and max out detect illusion then dual to a mage and it would have very little impact if any at all on the characters progression. 10k XP later and they would be a mage of the same level with extra HP and the ability to dispel illusions at will. The only advantage being that the pure mage would level up a few minutes earlier in comparison -a window which would get progressively more negligible as the game progressed and XP rewards increased.
It would be cool if there was some kinda of perk to being a pure class though I have no idea what that could be
Anyway I'm just curious as to what people's thoughts are on the matter.
I personally like playing as a Mage, even as an experienced player but I kinda wish the class had some form of advantage for being pure that sets it aside from the others, because basically any Mage can benefit from starting as a different class then dualling early at virtually no cost.
For example a thief could fairly quickly get to level 4 and max out detect illusion then dual to a mage and it would have very little impact if any at all on the characters progression. 10k XP later and they would be a mage of the same level with extra HP and the ability to dispel illusions at will. The only advantage being that the pure mage would level up a few minutes earlier in comparison -a window which would get progressively more negligible as the game progressed and XP rewards increased.
It would be cool if there was some kinda of perk to being a pure class though I have no idea what that could be
Anyway I'm just curious as to what people's thoughts are on the matter.
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That said, people may not play pure Mages all that often due to the number of Mages thrown at you, and that no matter how hard you try, you'd never be as good as Edwin. I have a preference for Enchanter (mostly because Diviner and Transmuter, while doable, isn't really worth it,) because I like using my Mages for more than just brute force. Though a Conjurer is starting to appeal to me...
As for just a Generalist Mage, there really is no reason to play one. While sure, you have to deal with some randomness, the Wild Mage simply does a Generalist's job better.
I realise I'm probably in the minority here, but roleplaying plays a part in why I consistently play a pure mage. I wanted my character to love magic and knowledge so much from growing up in Candlekeep that she couldn't imagine doing anything else, and she couldn't bear the thought of missing out on any particular schools so she chose not to specialise. It's worked out well for her.
She's also quite the powerhouse when I reach Throne of Bhaal. Her spellbook is insane. In fact I made it a challenge to have her memorise as many spells as possible (she's got an intelligence of 19 thanks to the manual of int+1).
Those games are so unbalanced and easy that, even without dualing at almost no cost from something other to mage, a mage charname is always a winning choice, as soon as a decent knowledge of the magic system is reached. For vanilla and allowing cheap tactics as soon as a decent knowledge of the fireball spell is reached.
I am exaggerating, but a generalist not kitted mage has a lot of versatility, more than a sorcerer if you are able to plan in advance, the sorc is better in in battle changes, but can not chose specific spells for specific battles or situations. Is also a lot more safer than a wild mage, that can write game over at every spell he cast, and he will have his share of bad surges with a 5% chance and a whole saga to play.
There is no reason to use a single class generalist mage as a dual give so much advantages, from the early one you tell, with a permanent TS that bypasses spell immunities, to a lev13 kensage that has more potential than the pure class kensai with his defenses and simulacrum.
But, unless a really hard modded game is used, there is also no real reason to seek the maximization of power, the game, even modded, can be beat even without maxed HP rolls, stats over 90 and mages dualed from something at low cost. And probably is funnier to beat it that way, with a mage that do the mage, a fighter that do the fighter and so on.
Is not my typical route, I use parties where the extreme versatility is the key, where everyone but the sorcerer is mage and something, and where everyone but the sorcerer has to be able to go solo against that dragon or whatever and beat him using magic, than using mlee than possibly only ranged. If he can do it is fine, other way he is out, is not meeting the minimum requirements. About being a member of my party, not about being an useful and powerful member of a party that can beat the game with no problem.
I want, and usually have, parties that can cut trough Draconis, Ravager and the Eclipse party with no porblem, without even get a single damage if possible, and usually possible mean only a little more pre buffing than the no prebuffing that I usually do. But my goal is not to beat the game, is to dominate it, with the luxury to ask myself "how I want to beat the next battle? Only ranged and jumping on the left feet without using the right one? let's do it...". My goal is not to beat all the liches and demiliches of SoA, is to beat them all in chap2, in the same day, no rests involved, no reloads needed, no rare scrolls or special equipment used, and no cheap tactics used.
When sometimes I am less selective and open the party to more choices, allowing also pure generalist mages or pure fighters, I find it somehow relaxing, even if when the things get really hard due to some mods is no more so relaxing, it can become a nightmare. Even keeping an high level Jaheira alive can be a nightmare, in a certain Eclipse battle the best way to have her not blinded and killed was to protect her with an invisibility spell and to keep safe in a corner, only after that I could go for a complete victory, with the enemies destroyed and no party member damaged.
But as a typical player has other goals there is no reason why a pure class generalist mage should not be used, is a class that can solo the game naked and that can give a lot to a full party.
And no helping bard can put his spells in your CC or sequencer.
But the topic here is why unkitted against an early dual, not against a specialist. The fighter, thief or cleric you dual from eventually can be kitted, but the cost in XP can be minimal having good advantages, the use of thief weapons, few HP and a permanent free TS in the example of the OP at 10K XP as only cost.
It's a lot more punishing in BG-1 for a generalist mage because the specialists get 33% more spells than you in early levels - and spell casting is about *all* you can do thanks to only have 1d4
1. Went to rescue Neera, I was contemplating taking her but hadn't decided yet. As combat started her first spell surged and she killed herself before the fight had even begun lol. Solved that dilema.
2. In Mulahey's "lair" a single Kobold ran past Jaheira (my tank) past Khalid, past my PC right up to Dynaheir who was at the very back hit her once for 20 damage, a critical hit, and she died instantly
None of these have any real correlation to being a generalist but i thought I'd share them as this thread was born from my creation of this character.
As to the dual class, well, that will always be better, its just not something most people can easily qualify for in pnp, and being carried for several levels in pnp is also a pain.
all those chests and doors to open, all those traps to find.
And being an egoist, just can't roleplay that another party member does that whilst me and the rest of the party have a cup of tea and chill out.
Thoroughly enjoy reading other people's stories, playthroughs ect. but when I roll that charname, think about all the things I am going to need to do, my inner thief is too loud.
And of course it doesn't really make sense, because late game, my rogue/thief sits around drinking tea whilst the mages run around clearing whole areas.
If you play a random created character with lousy ability scores, pure mage is the only way to power.
Mage, as a pure class feels kinda sentimental for me. Because it's either non-specialized Mage or Invoker that I managed to beat BG1 for the first time. Unfortunately, my memory of my character class back then is rather blury.
Further about pure mages, I know that they are generally better in dual/multi class characters. Still, I'm not really fan of powerbuilding and I think that picking pure mage still has it's perks. Pure mage levels more smoothly and faster than dual/multi-classed counterparts. Pure mage doesn't have additional spell slots, but can learn pretty much every spell in the game (minus wild-mage only ones). Pure mage doesn't get bonus to learning from scrolls, but also neither pentalies. Same with saving throws. And finally, I think pure mage is useful in no-reload or minimal-reload playthroughts due to even chance to learn spells of all schools from the scrolls.
I think pure mages are really good character class.
That said, I can certainly see a generalist mage work well enough. It's just that when I play arcane casters, I get a bit of an inferiority complex over spell slots, since divine casters get so many more thanks to high wisdom scores. If mages got bonus spells for high intelligence, that would balance out better. Of course, then sorcerers might need bonus spells for high charisma, which would make them even more OP than they are already, and hey look, I've gone cross-eyed.
Also, I didn't have zillions of spell slots but I made good use of sequencers and contingencies to make my spells more powerful. Besides , the game is totally doable with a single class mage and being able to write every spell in your spellbook gives you a lot more choices wheb developing tactics.
So far so good only had to reload once because of Firkraag n his bad breath. Mazzy slew him second time around though, which I love. She now wears his hide as a trophy.
I don't think I've ever used a single-class generalist Mage again. When I want to run as a Mage these days, I always start with a few levels of some other class first, because it makes a much stronger and more versatile character. (Yes, of course I realise that I could win without that advantage, but I always feel that a Bhaalspawn ought to be a fairly powerful character, and I can give myself a challenge in other ways than gimping my protagonist.)
The only real reason I don't like generalist mage is that the name is just so bland. So much nicer to be called a Neromancer, or an Illusionist or an Antichickenatist
"With my last breath I spit at thee..."