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Why does Imoen suddenly regain her sanity?

sersafirsersafir Member Posts: 126
in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
Just before being sent to spellhold, she's desperate, not insane.

After her soul is drained, she loses it.

In spellhold, she's clearly out of her mind, makes no sense whatsoever.

After Irenicus steals your divinity, shes just fine, and perfectly intelligent.

What happened?

Comments

  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    I like to think that while you first see her in the asylum, she is under some mind-affecting spell. After Irenicus is "done" with you, the spell is dispelled or its effects ended on its own. Or something like that.

    But I think what @megamike15 said is true as well.
  • sluckerssluckers Member Posts: 280
    edited December 2016
    In spellhold she is trapped with no avenue of escape, doesn't know if her whereabouts are known, if someone is coming to get her. It's a hopeless situation that could break anyone.

    When her life-long friend comes to rescue her and takes her into his/her party, it changes her situation and gives her a real hope of escape and the recovery of her soul.

    Such a dramatic and positive change in fortune can snap someone out of their 'broken-ness', so to speak. It works in real life and in video games. Doesn't explain the physical effects of being drained that were apparent upon first meeting her in spellhold, but as has been mentioned the plot was changed mid-way through development.
  • marzbarzmarzbarz Member Posts: 187
    edited December 2016
    I just always assumed Irenicus had put a spell on her and/or it takes some time to get to her so shes tortured more in attempts to unlock the power for Bodhi. Then when Irenicus flees after the battle the spell is undone and she can begin to fully realize your really here saving her. The soul stealing alone didnt break you or kill her and it seems all effects happened gradually "after" the event unless it outright killed the person during.

    The damage of the events are still present until she and you go into revenge mode on bodhi and get her soul and closure killing her. I doubt the torture in spellhold was any different than the beginning so I highly doubt that alone would break her again. Jon just had the chance to continue his efforts with or without more resources but Im pretty sure he also tossed a spell on her for many reasons. It buys him some time too if you show up, as a distraction.

    She basically acts the same in the dreams so she could easily be in a waking dream state of sorts. Also she was reaching out to you the whole time like that when you slept so it was most likely all she could do under such a powerful spell. Eventually your presence and bhaal's essence growing stronger/closer ( in the dream metaphorically and literally ) gave her more strength at the same time she was being magically subdued in spellhold. During this time in the dream state she gets stronger because shes less " lets gtfo of here" and more "lets pwn Jon/Bodhi, no more bullcrap", if she was only emotionally broken she woulnt have just magically gotten better.

    Like mentioned above if they planned to off her then the sudden change could be related to that. I just like the spell+ more torture theory better for the story, it gives her more purpose imo and strengthens her character somewhat.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    Cynical explanation: as already mentioned, she was intended to die during the rescue attempt, but the character proved too popular so they decided to let her live - leading to as many puzzling story implications as her equally last-minute inclusion in the FIRST game. Ironically, that sort of weird impulsiveness is exactly what one would expect of Imoen, so... ¬_¬

    Logical explanation: several possibilities. Simplest would be that the effects of the spell she was subjected to by Big I were simply temporary, and that she recovered on her own (and would have regardless of you coming to the rescue). Other explanations are equally plausible, of course, such as that she was kept under temporary insanity by Irenicus to mess with you, and was released after he had what he wanted (knowing full well that she would share your fate anyway, sane or not).

    Note on the dreams: I am of the opinion that it is not Imoen at all that CHARNAME meets during their dream, but rather a figment of some kind. This could be either your own subconscious, or a sliver of Bhaal's self struggling to break free; in fact, it could even be part of the divine essence Bhaal stole in the first place. Either way: not Imoen. Just looks like Imoen.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Bonkers Imoen(†) gets replaced by Undercover Doppelganger.

    As valid an explanation of BG plot holes as any.
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 910
    I'm guessing because of the changed story too unfortunately. Or that the experiments left her dazed for a while and she never actually lost her sanity to begin with. It would have been great if she actually kept being a bit crazy like in the beginning when she keeps muttering about death and pain. Alas, the things that never were...
    Lord_Tansheron said:

    Note on the dreams: I am of the opinion that it is not Imoen at all that CHARNAME meets during their dream, but rather a figment of some kind. This could be either your own subconscious, or a sliver of Bhaal's self struggling to break free; in fact, it could even be part of the divine essence Bhaal stole in the first place. Either way: not Imoen. Just looks like Imoen.

    Yeah, it is explained that it isn't really Imoen, at least no part of Imoen that she herself is aware of. Irenicus in the dreams seems to be the actual essence of Bhaal, trying to make you go all psycho and all. Dream Imoen seems to be something else, a part of you that Irenicus couldn't take. I'm guessing the "instinct" that Bhaal is shouting about in the dream. Which could be why dream Imoen turns very sinister as soon as you get out of Spellhold.

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,433
    Kamigoroshi said:

    Bonkers Imoen(†) gets replaced by Undercover Doppelganger.

    As valid an explanation of BG plot holes as any.

    That must be some Doppelganger to even fool the Solar after the battle at the Throne of Bhaal.

    Personally I support the explanation from @megamike15 . It's simply a leftover dialog line when Imoen was intended to be sacrificed by the devs.

    There is a lot of cut or cancelled content that can still be found in the game resources. But most of it is not available without cheating (such as dialog lines from a cancelled Valygar romance or a big map that was supposed to be used for a Slayer dream sequence).
  • marzbarzmarzbarz Member Posts: 187
    Is it bad I would have been happy if Yosh and Imo changed places lol?

    It would be easy too just yoh helps you escape after and imo dies/your forced to watch. Then kill Bodhi to free her soul. Yoh would have allowed for a thief/fig after your done getting enough skill levels.

    Hmmmm, I like that idea haha.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    As much as I love Imoen, her dying makes a bit more sense storywise. Its foreshadowed a decent amount ironically in SOD as well.
  • sersafirsersafir Member Posts: 126
    edited December 2016
    ThacoBell said:

    As much as I love Imoen, her dying makes a bit more sense storywise. Its foreshadowed a decent amount ironically in SOD as well.

    Canonically in the books if im not mistaken, Imoen's insane and about to die as the slayer form takes over, but Abdel, using his monstrous strength, tears the skin of the slayer off and pulls Imoen out, preventing her from losing herself. I kinda liked that, it showed Abdel could defy fate. Then she died later in the sequel ToB book, but Idk what her cannon death was, I heard it was weak. If shes going to die I'd prefer it be by nothing short of a last boss.

    Also, her personality was waaaay different. She was far from the prankster innocent eternal child the game makes her out to be. But I'm going off topic here.

    I guess my point is, I like the idea of the writing pointing to her death, and then finding the ability to overcome that.
  • qwerty123456qwerty123456 Member Posts: 67
    sersafir said:

    Canonically in the books if im not mistaken, Imoen's insane and about to die as the slayer form takes over, but Abdel, using his monstrous strength, tears the skin of the slayer off and pulls Imoen out, preventing her from losing herself.

    Oh my god, is that really in the book? And here we are, bashing SoD... Talk about fanfic level writing.
    I couldn't take it past the first book, I think.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    At some point someone needs to put them back in print because everybody secretly wants to read them and despise them afterwards.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    edited December 2016
    The novelization is beyond terrible. You think you want to read it just so you can say you did, but you really don't.

    Aside from the grossly different personalities of many characters involved, the majority of the "plot" consists of Abdel getting nasty with any female creature that enters his testosterone-soaked orbit. Including Jaheira while Khalid is alive, and including Bodhi. Yes, it is even more cringe than it sounds.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    50 shades of bhaalspawn?

    I think it would at least be fun to know which npcs are in the books and how each of them passes on.
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    the books are not canon, they don't exist, wotc disowned them. the end
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,428
    Kamigoroshi said:

    Bonkers Imoen(†) gets replaced by Undercover Doppelganger.

    As valid an explanation of BG plot holes as any.

    But the primary mage Imoen with lousy stats was already replaced by a Doppelganger at the start of BG1! How many Doppelganger Bhaalspawn were there?
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,875
    Abi_Dalzim said:

    Kamigoroshi said:

    Bonkers Imoen(†) gets replaced by Undercover Doppelganger.

    As valid an explanation of BG plot holes as any.

    But the primary mage Imoen with lousy stats was already replaced by a Doppelganger at the start of BG1! How many Doppelganger Bhaalspawn were there?
    By my count? 48.
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,428
    Maybe Bhaal was a Doppelganger himself, and so all of his children get that ability from him, not the other parent...
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    What if CHARNAME is imagining everything while sitting in Candlekeep, reading all day because there is nothing else to do?
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    charname never survived the process and is also a doppelganger.
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,428
    Everyone's a doppelganger. The ones who turn into the grey humanoid have gone defective and need to be exterminated for not getting with the program.
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,174
    edited December 2016
    It surprises me a little that no-one has ever made a mod for this. Imoen wastes away shortly after showing up, and charname similarly starts to lose stats until the main quest is completed and they are restored somewhat. Say a 1% cumulative chance per game day of losing (d10) one of the 6 main stats, hps, a proficiency slot, a random spell slot (if caster), or hlas if you've got that far. I guess modders prefer to add rather than subtract content usually though, as this would be incompatible to a degree with many Imoen-related mods.
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    There are three perfectly rational explanations. The first is that Irenicus cast a spell on her, as many others have mentioned, which I have always assumed is the case. The second is that she is in shock. Some people, after surviving a car crash, decides to run back into their burning car to salvage their cellphone or whatever. When a person is in shock, they can be irrational and non-responsive to outside stimuli, but once it passes - and it passes very quickly, a couple of minutes to hours - they are perfectly fine again. I would surmise losing your soul can be rather upsetting. However, if I understand the notes and dialogues correctly, a couple of days have passed since Imoen was souldrained, which leads to the third, and most likely conclusion; drugs, torture, spells and losing her soul puts her in a day-dreaming state. This is a defence mechanism, to keep your mind intact when you are in a place of desperation, and can happen to prisoners, or abused women, or very ill individuals, but once you can see the light in the tunnel again - which would be her beloved older brother / sister literally wrestling her out of the monsters grasp - just like with a shock, you quickly recover.
  • pixie359pixie359 Member Posts: 251
    I like the idea of Imoen being damaged by the experience. Perhaps there could be an option for her to embrace the essence of Bhaal and become evil. I could see that developing from her early appreciation of the beauty in pain and death. Hell, if you play it right she could become another major storyline and boss in TOB.
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