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Highest Damage Dual Weild

ahhyepahhyep Member Posts: 114
I have been googling a lot of threads recently to push the engine as high as I can go as far as solo damage power output without cheating or backstabbing.

I found a lot of threads with some misinformation so wanted to summon some of the best math-people around. I was actually hoping to get some spot checking on ideal dual weild builds for various classes. I posted this in another older thread but thought it might be better in a new one:
Ahhyep said:

Best DMG is a F/M/T with Foebane in the mainhand, Scarlet Ninja To in the offhand, using helm with permanent bless and righteous magic charge, and the SOD belt apparently imports into bg2ee that gives 10% slashing damage, who has self buffed improved haste and has activated critical strike.

That is ideal and only happens for 1 minute (1 round) per day.

25 Str is more important than any weapon, so much so that even if you had 23 str you would still want to weild Crom. You should be aiming for as many APR as possible with IH. I don't really like using things that only last 1 turn (helm) or 1 round (gww).

Basically, you have to mainhand Crom Faeyr if you can't get your STR to 25. Clerics/Paladins can through rightous magic/duhm and Thieves can by UAI the rightous magic charge helmet. Any other class will need to use Crom mainhand. I would still recommend Crom for mainhand for any non-cleric as rightous magic is so short (only 1 minute real world time per rested day). Considerations below are for solo but work for groups too. The best "lazy man" damage per round is a FMT with Crom Faeyr, Scarlet Ninja-To offhand, Helmet

A F/M/T can have 10apr with Scarlet-Ninja To in the offhand. Recommended setup is Crom mainhand, scarlet ninja to offhand. When you want to do "AS MUCH AS THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE" you can put on the belt and helmet and use foebane for a minute every rested day and then switch back.

A Berserker-> Cleric can have 9apr with Defender of Easthaven in the offhand. Mainhand either Runehammer +5, Club of Detonation, etc. Choose carefully though as you can only choose 1 mainhand for 5 pip grandmastery.

A F/C can have 8apr with defender of easthaven in the offhand. Same rules for mainhand apply.

A F/M will want to use Crom/Belm and will only have 8apr.

A paladin will want to go either the dualweild build like the clerics at 8apr (WHY) or use my personal favorite (for flavor) Carsomyr +6 for 6apr.

Or you can be a super gay slowmotion tank and just play 5apr with flail of ages +5 and defender in offhand.

I think that's all 100% accurate but if someone wants to check my math out, they can.
summoning @Lord_Tansheron @kryptix @elminster if you still are around

Comments

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,383
    Crom Faeyr is neither necessary for any warrior or rogue due to potion use nor for clerics due to their buffs. Too easy to get 25 strength. So basically you can pick any weapon you want.

    Mages should probably wield black blade of disaster or (I think) golem transformation from shapechange.

    Still don't think that speed is more important than immunities through permanent effects but that is my personal taste.

    CrevsDaakGotural
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,198
    TL;DR: Many various factors are involved, and change setups depending on how you approach things like what time frame you are looking at (GWW vs. IH), what buffs you allow for (pary, solo, shapechange, etc.), what game setup you are using (IR/SR?), and of course what target you are hitting (AC, resistances, etc.).

    In general, dual-wield is a good candidate due to IH giving 10 APR if you use +APR offhands. Main hand varies depending on how you set things up, anything from FoA+5 to Club of Detonation to Crom Faeyr or Black Blade of Disaster is possible, or even Staff of the Ram+6 (with e.g. GWW chaining). Offhand is pretty clearly +APR, it is virtually impossible in realistic scenarios for any other OH to beat them mathematically in terms of pure per-hit damage, even accounting for enchantment levels. Note that dual-wielding during GWW is a damage loss, though.

    Class also varies with how you set things up. Fighter/Mage hybrid favors IH-based approaches, likely Kensai->Mage due to damage bonuses/Kai - but that, too, depends on what XP bracket you are looking at, and what time frame. GWW chaining can see pure Kensai pull ahead, for example, while full party buffs might favor a Fighter/Cleric hybrid or something else entirely.

    In the end, the formula is basically a function of damage per round:

    DamagePerRound = DamagePerHit * HitChance * AttacksPerRound

    Maximize all factors for maximum overall damage, but keep in mind the complexities involved when you extend the time frame.

    As the game is too varied among players in terms of variables, there is no obvious, general perfect solution. Plug in your preferences and math it out yourself if you want to be sure.

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,833
    A Mage/Thief using Mislead can backstab with every hit. Combine Improved Haste with Belm and Black Blade of Disaster, the Girdle of Fire Giant Strength, the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization, and you deal 645 damage per round:

    =4*(13+5+5+2)*5+4*10+2*(4.5+2+2)*5+2*10
    or
    =4 [APR with IH and Belm in off hand] *(13 [base damage for BBoD, 2d12] + 5 [BBoD enchantment bonus] +5 [grandmastery in longswords, which BBoD grants] +2 [gauntlets])*5 [backstab multiplier] +4*10 [Strength bonus, which is not multiplied during a backstab] +2 [off hand with Belm] *(4.5 [Belm base damage] +2 [Belm enchantment] +2 [gauntlets])*5 [backstab]+2*10 [Strength bonus, not multiplied by backstab]

    Note that although the Scarlet Ninja-to has a higher base damage than Belm, the SCT cannot be used by thieves unless they have UAI, which means it cannot be used to backstab.

    This setup requires 6 million XP. If you want sustainable damage before then, Belm and Flail of Ages are both available in Chapter 2 with little effort, and are therefore more useful over the course of the game. The other high-end weapons require lots of XP (like the Scarlet Ninja-to), lots of gold (like the SCT as well), or are only available deep into the endgame (like Foebane and Crom Faeyr).

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,198
    FoA+3 + Belm is definitely a staple of many a game, and ridiculously powerful for when you can get it.

    Also keep in mind that many of the highest damage setups are overkill a good amount of the time. Certainly nothing in the unmodded game that is even remotely tough enough to survive a meaningful amount of time against tweaked-out setups.

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 959

    A Mage/Thief using Mislead can backstab with every hit. Combine Improved Haste with Belm and Black Blade of Disaster, the Girdle of Fire Giant Strength, the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization, and you deal 645 damage per round:

    =4*(13+5+5+2)*5+4*10+2*(4.5+2+2)*5+2*10
    or
    =4 [APR with IH and Belm in off hand] *(13 [base damage for BBoD, 2d12] + 5 [BBoD enchantment bonus] +5 [grandmastery in longswords, which BBoD grants] +2 [gauntlets])*5 [backstab multiplier] +4*10 [Strength bonus, which is not multiplied during a backstab] +2 [off hand with Belm] *(4.5 [Belm base damage] +2 [Belm enchantment] +2 [gauntlets])*5 [backstab]+2*10 [Strength bonus, not multiplied by backstab]

    Note that although the Scarlet Ninja-to has a higher base damage than Belm, the SCT cannot be used by thieves unless they have UAI, which means it cannot be used to backstab.

    This setup requires 6 million XP. If you want sustainable damage before then, Belm and Flail of Ages are both available in Chapter 2 with little effort, and are therefore more useful over the course of the game. The other high-end weapons require lots of XP (like the Scarlet Ninja-to), lots of gold (like the SCT as well), or are only available deep into the endgame (like Foebane and Crom Faeyr).

    I will see your Mage/Thief and raise you a Fighter/Thief with a Mislead scroll and Hindo's Doom+4 instead of BBoD.

    Using your formula above I come up with 845 damage.

    8 APR mainhand
    5.5 mainhand base damage
    4 mainhand enchant bonus
    4 mastery bonus
    2 gauntlets
    5 backstab multiplier
    10 Strength bonus
    2 Offhand APR
    4.5 Offhand base damage
    2 offhand enchant bonus
    4 offhand mastery bonus

    Personally though, that's just me theorizing, I've never done this Mislead or Staff of the Mage cheese. About the closest I get is a Shadowdancer kit tacked on to my F/T, which gives me plenty of backstabbing with Hide in Plain Sight.

  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,425
    edited December 2016
    I did combine Mislead scrolls with an Assassin on a recent runthrough. Didn't calculate damage or anything, but combined with Belm and Celestial Fury, they completely destroyed the Rakshasa in front of Rillifane's Temple in nothing flat, so that's definitely something worth doing with a strong backstabber.

    Post edited by Abi_Dalzim on
    CrevsDaak
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,625
    The highest dual wield setup is obviously two daggers of CTRL + Y

    CrevsDaakThacoBellwoowoovoodoo
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,156
    edited December 2016
    You don't need to dual-wield, just go with an Assassin->Fighter, get grandmastery on Staves, the Staff of the Ram+6, GWW, Use Any Item and a scroll of Mislead. Pure bliss and massive destruction ensues.

    Edit: you'll need to power-game a bit to get this one off though.

  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,425
    edited December 2016
    If you dual-class into fighter, then you don't get Use Any Item or any other thief HLA. Anyways, I remember dual-classing into fighter from Shadowdancer, and it worked alright, but you're gonna regret being that squishy.

    CrevsDaak
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,198

    If you dual-class into fighter, then you don't get Use Any Item or any other thief HLA.

    You do if you wait until 3m XP before you dual. Fun fact: UAI remains active even after dual and before you regain.

    That setup does highlight quite beautifully, though, why these discussions are so academic. Yes you could maximixe BS damage through Assassin multipliers, dualing at 3m xp and all that - but in the process you lose so much overall efficiency you really have to ask yourself why you are doing all of it ¬_¬

    CrevsDaak
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    Because big numbers are sexy owo=b

    This is why everyone should try to get off a Deathbringer Assault backstab once in their life.

    CrevsDaak
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,995
    If you could be bothered to do it a bard could beat all the above by chaining together singing clones of himself.

    CrevsDaaksemiticgoddess
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,833
    Song stacking with Minute Meteors is one of the best ways to maximize party damage. I remember creating a song-based party, with two Blades for the Improved Bard Song and a mage/thief, cleric/mage, and two sorcerers for Minute Meteors to maximize APR. It just crushed the opposition; we were dealing hundreds of damage per round and chunking Tactics Fire Giants in seconds.

    But it seems EE finally stopped bard songs from stacking. They'll still stack with each other, but they don't stack with themselves. A Bard, a Skald, and an epic-level bard with the Improved Bard Song can harmonize and stack the effects of their songs. But two Skalds, or a Skald and a Mislead clone, will not be able to stack their songs, as they use the same song.

    Grond0KuronaCrevsDaak
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