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Improvements to the NWN forum section

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  • raz651raz651 Member Posts: 175
    Shadooow said:

    By design any mod (module/hakpack) is compatible with NWN:EE so I really don't see a point in this thread.

    The only incompatible mod with NWN:EE is community patch 1.70/1.71/1.72 as it is also the only mod that uses unique way of installation into *.bif files. But there is special version of community patch compatible with NWN:EE already,

    Theoretically any mod - be it a module or set of hakpack that uses installer might not work for NWN:EE as it won't find the installation path, but the mod itself will work if you copy the files to new nwn installation manually.

    OK one more time. The point was a place to list modules (single player) that people wanted to tell others about. Thus putting them all in one place instead of searching thread after thread to find what is there. Especially if it was buried on page 2 of 300 pages.

    PWs and Custom Content has there own sub forum. But since everyone wants to argue about what this thread is about and why it is not needed. I resend my request for such a place to list playable single player modules and ask that this thread be eradicated hence force without prejudice. :p
  • ProlericProleric Member Posts: 1,269
    edited January 2018
    There are various comprehensive lists of modules on the vault which could be stickied, for example

    Vault modules sorted by popularity

    Probably most of them work with EE. Not quite a foregone conclusion - there have been some tileset crashes (now fixed) so there might be the odd issue or two lurking out there.

    We could also make a list here of modules that have been played through successfully on EE (which is quite a different matter). I've seen a few announced, including two of mine:

    Dark Energy
    Enigma Island
    Post edited by Proleric on
  • voidofopinionvoidofopinion Member, Moderator Posts: 1,248
    Proleric said:

    There are various comprehensive lists of modules on the vault which could be stickied, for example

    https://neverwintervault.org/catalog/nwn1

    Probably most of them work with EE. Not quite a foregone conclusion - there have been some tileset crashes (now fixed) so there might be the odd issue or two lurking out there.

    I did not know that!

    Which tilesets and was the fix on mod makers or beamdogs side?

    :)
  • ProlericProleric Member Posts: 1,269
    edited January 2018
    The fixes were done by the community because the tiles had errors that couldn't reasonably have been anticipated by Beamdog. The wonder is that they worked in 1.69 by some fluke.

    The ones I know about, which have been fixed, are

    Aztec Interior
    RL Gothic Interior
    UDP2 Modern Office Interiors

    Last I heard, D20 Modern was being patched for the latter. It's possible that a few modules are using derived versions of the above, which haven't been fixed, but that could be addressed by the community case-by-case if the need arises. The symptom is crash-to-desktop on area load.
    voidofopinion
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    Shadooow said:

    By design any mod (module/hakpack) is compatible with NWN:EE so I really don't see a point in this thread.

    The only incompatible mod with NWN:EE is community patch 1.70/1.71/1.72 as it is also the only mod that uses unique way of installation into *.bif files. But there is special version of community patch compatible with NWN:EE already,

    Theoretically any mod - be it a module or set of hakpack that uses installer might not work for NWN:EE as it won't find the installation path, but the mod itself will work if you copy the files to new nwn installation manually.

    I agree completely, but this is the game's main forum, and we have decided it would serve only good if there was a place here where one could find the list of all modules, even if it's possible to find similar lists somewhere else. Another argument is that not everyone are aware that any mod for NWN should indeed work for NWN:EE, so a thread like this could be useful in spreading this information.

    Ok, thanks, folks, - give me some time (weekish) and I'll create a list of modules.
  • voidofopinionvoidofopinion Member, Moderator Posts: 1,248
    Proleric said:

    The fixes were done by the community because the tiles had errors that couldn't reasonably have been anticipated by Beamdog. The wonder is that they worked in 1.69 by some fluke.

    The ones I know about, which have been fixed, are

    Aztec Interior
    RL Gothic Interior
    UDP2 Modern Office Interiors

    Last I heard, D20 Modern was being patched for the latter. It's possible that a few modules are using derived versions of the above, which haven't been fixed, but that could be addressed by the community case-by-case if the need arises. The symptom is crash-to-desktop on area load.

    Thank you very much Proleric!

    I guess I should find that RL Gothic interiors fix!

    - Jamie
  • ProlericProleric Member Posts: 1,269
    edited January 2018



    ... Ok, thanks, folks, - give me some time (weekish) and I'll create a list of modules.

    I'll be interested to see what you come up with. Amongst other issues,
    • How will the list be kept up to date?
    • Given that there are hundreds of modules, how will it help players to find the best?
    • Will it only included those certified as EE compatible?
    This is a better list from the vault if you get stuck:

    Vault modules sorted by popularity

    JuliusBorisov
  • AndarianAndarian Member Posts: 185
    edited January 2018
    I thought it was very odd when I first came to the Beamdog forums that while I saw categories for things like "Persistent Worlds and Multiplayer," I didn't see a category for "Modules." At the time I dismissed it as an oversight that would eventually be corrected. It has been a couple of months now, though.

    I think that the right approach to this would be the same as was taken on the old Bioware forums, as well as on the Neverwinter Vault. That would be to create a new thread category named "Modules" under the Neverwinter Nights heading, for discussing adventure modules or series, or topics of interest to players of them. During the heyday of interest in NWN a decade ago this was the most active part of the modding community, with high quality works numbering in the many hundreds. Most of them are still available on the Neverwinter Vault, and an up-tick in their creation is very likely thanks to the news about NWN:EE. They absolutely need their own category on the forums.

    It could also fit as a "NWN:EE Mods" category under the "Modding" section, but I think that might be a little misleading. The reason is that modules for Neverwinter Nights are somewhat different than "mods" for other games. Outside of the NWN community, "mods" and "modding" tend to refer to making modifications to an existing game, like adding new quests or romance dialogs. The primary focus for NWN modules, though, especially in the SP community, is the creation of new, original, separate and self-contained playable adventures and campaigns. They're different enough from "mods" for other games that I'm not sure they would fit in well in the same category.
    LyraVrenJuliusBorisov
  • raz651raz651 Member Posts: 175
    Andarian said:

    I thought it was very odd when I first came to the Beamdog forums

    There is one. Just that there seems to be a resistance to using it and a push for just using the vault to find the modules. https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/68593/nwn-ee-compatible-modules#1

  • AndarianAndarian Member Posts: 185
    edited January 2018
    raz651 said:

    Andarian said:

    I thought it was very odd when I first came to the Beamdog forums

    There is one. Just that there seems to be a resistance to using it and a push for just using the vault to find the modules. https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/68593/nwn-ee-compatible-modules#1
    That is a thread, not a category, and it didn't exist until last week (I came to the forums over two months ago). It's a nice idea, but with respect, it's wholly inadequate to what is needed.
    JuliusBorisov
  • AndarianAndarian Member Posts: 185

    Ok, thanks, folks, - give me some time (weekish) and I'll create a list of modules.

    With respect, I think that is a fundamentally wrong way to approach this. There are several reasons, but the primary one is straightforward: quantity. Just the really good modules developed for Neverwinter Nights easily number in the hundreds. The total number is in the thousands. Trying to catalog them on a single forum thread simply isn't practical.

    The creation of adventure modules is and always has been one of the central and fundamental foci of the Neverwinter Nights community. Word about where to find good modules to play has always gotten around by the kind of means that are used when dealing with such large catalogs.
    • There are search systems on the forums that host them, like the Neverwinter Vault, and the IGN Vault that preceded it. The IGN Vault sorted them by ratings, so you could get a list of the most popular, in order. The Neverwinter Vault list that Proleric linked appears to present them by number of ratings instead.
    • There were the Reviewer's Guild (now defunct) and the Academy for Modding Excellence (now inactive), which helped provide recommendations and awards highlighting good modules to play.
    • Most of all, there was word of mouth, spread and promoted generally by the very active discussions in the threads on the Modules category of the Bioware Forums.
    This last point in particular is why I posted a strong call on another thread (see here) for the creation of a Neverwinter Nights Modules forum. A sticky thread simply won't cut it. Modules are a fundamental and unique aspect of Neverwinter Nights modding, and they need to be given at least the respect and focus given to Persistent Worlds and Custom Content development.
    voidofopinionJuliusBorisov
  • raz651raz651 Member Posts: 175
    The approach of this system was for people who are working on modules using the enhanced addition a place to tell us about it. Instead of searching through threads that may be buried upon page 6, there is just one thread that was being updated by the mod on the first post.

    This was never meant to be a listing for every single mod that has ever been made. Just ones that are currently being worked on, updated for the enhanced addition.
    JuliusBorisovJFK
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    edited January 2018
    @Andarian We're all here interested in the best result for the community. What you're seeing here is not the final result. You speak about 2 months, but a lot has happened during these 2 months, and maybe we indeed have been missing something (overlooking).

    I see this is not the first time people here comment as if the forum structure of NWN:EE is set in stone (tagging also @voidofopinion ). It is not. The forum structure of categories for IE EEs has been constantly developing with time. It can't be different for NWN:EE.

    So I'm all for making the forum better for all you, NWN folks. What @Andarian is now saying differs from previous comments in this thread. So like with Trello boards discussion, we need to hear more opinions before venturing forth.
    Andarian
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    @Andarian I've replied in that thread.
    Andarian said:

    I thought it was very odd when I first came to the Beamdog forums that while I saw categories for things like "Persistent Worlds and Multiplayer," I didn't see a category for "Modules." At the time I dismissed it as an oversight that would eventually be corrected. It has been a couple of months now, though.

    For the future, please, share your concerns. There's a lot going on about NWN:EE and it may be difficult to catch everything.
    Andarian
  • LyraVrenLyraVren Member Posts: 21
    I think a forum section where people can talk about single player modules would be good to have, for asking help for specific modules, recommendations on what to play, or just chat about opinions.
    In the old-old bioware forums we even had these user-made groups (were they called guilds? I don't remember), and some were created for specific modules, too. For example A Dance With Rogues modules had a pretty chatty group. We talked about characters, combat strategies for different builds, etc. Now I don't expect groups like that to be made here, I'm just saying that to illustrate the importance of having a space to make topics like that. It brings more of a feeling of a community to players of single player modules, if that makes sense.
    JuliusBorisovAndarian
  • AndarianAndarian Member Posts: 185

    @Andarian I've replied in that thread...

    For the future, please, share your concerns. There's a lot going on about NWN:EE and it may be difficult to catch everything.

    Point well taken. I’ll try to be more assertive about doing that going forward. :smile:

    I really did assume, though (I now realize perhaps incorrectly) that this was something that would naturally be in the works as NWN:EE module projects started to be announced. If a case does need to be made for it, I’ll be happy to help out with that. I’ll follow your lead and follow up on the other thread.

    JuliusBorisov
  • AndarianAndarian Member Posts: 185
    edited January 2018
    raz651 said:

    The approach of this system was for people who are working on modules using the enhanced addition a place to tell us about it. Instead of searching through threads that may be buried upon page 6, there is just one thread that was being updated by the mod on the first post.

    This was never meant to be a listing for every single mod that has ever been made. Just ones that are currently being worked on, updated for the enhanced addition.

    I certainly support creating a sticky thread listing announced and released modules that have been tested, updated or built for EE compatibility. As someone who’s announced precisely such a project myself, I think it’s a great idea. :smile:

    I came to the this thread from the one that spawned it, though, on which the subject was the broader observation that the forums lacked a “Modules” section altogether. My concern stemmed from the fact that this thread at least seemed to be being proposed as a way to address that — and that for the reasons I’ve stated, I don’t think it’s sufficient to do so.
    JuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    edited January 2018
    Ok, a new category is created: https://forums.beamdog.com/categories/nwn:ee-modules with the following description: "Discuss modules working under NWN:EE, including announced and released modules which have been tested, updated or built for the EE compatibility"

    Feel free to come with any list you would like, I'll be here ready to sticky what you think should be stickied.

    You can use this thread for sharing ideas/suggestions/concerns about the new category, as well as requests to move certain threads there.
    thirdmouseJFKAndarian
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 909
    Sounds good. There are already some EE module threads in the general section, you might want to see if their authors want them moved over. I think so far it's only Sanctum of the Archmage Enhanced Edition, and Aielund Saga Enhanced Edition.
    JuliusBorisov
  • AndarianAndarian Member Posts: 185

    Sounds good. There are already some EE module threads in the general section, you might want to see if their authors want them moved over. I think so far it's only Sanctum of the Archmage Enhanced Edition, and Aielund Saga Enhanced Edition.

    I’d be happy to have the Sanctum thread moved to the new forum.

    JuliusBorisov
  • voidofopinionvoidofopinion Member, Moderator Posts: 1,248
    edited January 2018

    I see this is not the first time people here comment as if the forum structure of NWN:EE is set in stone (tagging also @voidofopinion ). It is not. The forum structure of categories for IE EEs has been constantly developing with time. It can't be different for NWN:EE.

    So I'm all for making the forum better for all you, NWN folks. What @Andarian is now saying differs from previous comments in this thread. So like with Trello boards discussion, we need to hear more opinions before venturing forth.

    If this is about my response to you over needing some place to start building community discussion then leaving you with the notion that I believed the forum structure to be inflexible was not my intention.

    I said it would be nice to have somewhere in the forum for community members to talk that wouldn't immediately get lost in the shuffle of the general forum by people making feature requests.

    You said the general forum was for general discussion so that is where those discussions should take place which completely missed the problem I and others wished to see addressed.

    I pointed out that seemed contradictory to the message Beamdog continues to send and that we needed to be more than a focus test group. I did this by mirroring what your decision communicated.

    You changed your position. Said that's not what you intended to say then we talked about starting a single thread where we could try to start setting the foundation of some simple personal discussion between members.

    I then messaged around 25 of this forums more active members personally and polity inviting them to the discussion thread and have since been tending to that discussion trying to create a safe space for people to open up and share a little about their projects and their lives.

    In the same discussion (where we discussed the creation of a community thread) was discussion about the creation of a forum for people to share their non PW modules and discuss their creation because there didn't seem to be a place specifically for that on the forums.

    You made this thread about curating a list of modules that were compatible with NWN:EE. Some people were confused as to how this met the needs stated in that first discussion or how this thread would be structured or even be practical. After some discussion you created a forum where people people share their non PW Modules and discuss their creation.

    In both instances you seemed to want to do your best to help meet everyones needs but misunderstood the root problem and went in the opposite direction which led to confusion and some people being upset that they were asking for one thing and it being interpreted as another.

    It was not my intention to upset you.
    It was not my intention to make you feel like a bad guy.
    It was not my intention to misconstrue your intentions.
    It was not my intention to suggest that you or anyone else working on these forums were inflexible.

    I have been doing my best to communicate with you in the most effective way I can because we seem to be having some difficulties communicating. If I have done so inappropriately or in a way that leads you to feel that I need some special reassurance or to be singled out as an example of disharmony then I am deeply sorry.
    JuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    Confession: @voidofopinion you are a cool, kind and helpful person! I have tagged you here for two reasons: to hear your input about the current idea (as you agreed with a post by Andarian above) and to hear more about how the idea about the community chamber is coming into reality. Great to hear you invited people to that thread! I also read in the past you worked as a community person for other developers and have big experience regarding community matters, so it can do only good to hear additional insights from you. So I am always looking forward to your next post.
    AndarianvoidofopinionDerpCity
  • voidofopinionvoidofopinion Member, Moderator Posts: 1,248

    Confession: @voidofopinion you are a cool, kind and helpful person! I have tagged you here for two reasons: to hear your input about the current idea (as you agreed with a post by Andarian above) and to hear more about how the idea about the community chamber is coming into reality. Great to hear you invited people to that thread! I also read in the past you worked as a community person for other developers and have big experience regarding community matters, so it can do only good to hear additional insights from you. So I am always looking forward to your next post.

    Well thank you @JuliusBorisov!

    That is literally the kindest thing anyone has said to me in weeks!

    :)

    I thought I had done something terribly wrong and accidentally upset people as I have a tendency to talk both forcefully and at length (hence the ironic username).

    Thank you for helping to provide a wonderful and unique environment on these forums for people to share their love of this series. Please don't hesitate to get in touch if there is ever anything I can do to help.

    - Jamie
    JuliusBorisovAndarianMrDamage
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    I have split comments about this topic from 2 different threads and made the title of the discussion wider.
    Now we have a thread for any suggestion about the whole NWN section.
    AndarianLyraVren
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