Spending most of their time adding things like new quests for one module which can't really be used anywhere else in the game isn't a good bang for the buck. While there are some that reply the same module over and over again most either don't at all or play once and move on. On the other hand if you want more things to do there are many thousands of modules out there which can fill that desire.
So you think they should just focus on the multiplayer then?
Why not release then just "NWN Multiplayer" and do nothing for the story campaigns(maybe not even include them at all) if there are many who no longer care about these after experiencing them once?
Of course releasing a high quality new story campaign of their own would require a fair amount of time and money but I think there is a fair amount of players who would enjoy such an experience over improved visuals, interface and multiplayer.
Those who enjoyed the Single Player campaigns would certainly enjoy either an expansion to the existing ones so that it would feel like a new experience or just add a completely new campaign/s with a new story and characters.
On the other hand if you want more things to do there are many thousands of modules out there which can fill that desire.
So you think they should just focus on the multiplayer then? ... Of course releasing a high quality new story campaign of their own would require a fair amount of time and money but I think there is a fair amount of players who would enjoy such an experience over improved visuals, interface and multiplayer.
Those who enjoyed the Single Player campaigns would certainly enjoy either an expansion to the existing ones so that it would feel like a new experience or just add a completely new campaign/s with a new story and characters.
It is not the case that the only alternatives for NWN are "multiplayer" and "the original campaign." The game was released with an adventure building toolset and was designed for the robust development of custom adventures. As FLB pointed out in in his comments, thousands of these custom modules have been released over the years. Many, and probably most, of these were single player compatible adventures. Hundreds of these are of high quality, and some of them have enjoyed a reputation over the years for being better than the NWN OCs themselves.
The whole point of Beamdog's focus on "backward compatibility" and "not breaking things" was so that these modules would still work in NWN:EE. Because of that, players of all kinds -- multiplayer and single player alike -- will have a large library of game content available to them to play when NWN:EE goes live. For SP compatible work, this includes award-winning mods such as the Aielund Saga and (if I may be permitted the immodesty) Sanctum of the Archmage. For a fuller list of what's available, take a look here.
On the other hand if you want more things to do there are many thousands of modules out there which can fill that desire.
So you think they should just focus on the multiplayer then? ... Of course releasing a high quality new story campaign of their own would require a fair amount of time and money but I think there is a fair amount of players who would enjoy such an experience over improved visuals, interface and multiplayer.
Those who enjoyed the Single Player campaigns would certainly enjoy either an expansion to the existing ones so that it would feel like a new experience or just add a completely new campaign/s with a new story and characters.
It is not the case that the only alternatives for NWN are "multiplayer" and "the original campaign." The game was released with an adventure building toolset and was designed for the robust development of custom adventures. As FLB pointed out in in his comments, thousands of these custom modules have been released over the years. Many, and probably most, of these were single player compatible adventures. Hundreds of these are of high quality, and some of them have enjoyed a reputation over the years for being better than the NWN OCs themselves.
The whole point of Beamdog's focus on "backward compatibility" and "not breaking things" was so that these modules would still work in NWN:EE. Because of that, players of all kinds -- multiplayer and single player alike -- will have a large library of game content available to them to play when NWN:EE goes live. For SP compatible work, this includes award-winning mods such as the Aielund Saga and (if I may be permitted the immodesty) Sanctum of the Archmage. For a fuller list of what's available, take a look here.
I meant in terms of content that is not modding related. Of course modding had been a blessing for many games keeping an interest in them long past the vanilla content.
But the thing is that most mods can still be played in NWN "Old Edition".
So how to attract new players who already own the old version and can play most mods?
I admit that I did not watch many livestreams so I might have missed something but are there any plans for some UNIQUE new campaigns/mods that will be only available for those who purchase the Enhanced Edition of the game?
So that players would go "Damn, so you can play/enjoy that stuff in the Enhanced Edition?! And it is completely unavailable for the old version?! I need to have it!!!".
Baldur's Gate Enhanced Editions offered new characters, romances, quests, items and eventually even a new campaign(Siege of Dragonspear). Icewind Dale also got new classes and restored content alongside the improved graphics.
In comparison the Enhanced versions of Planscape Torment and (for now) NWN seem less impressive.
I do not even see bug fixes for quests or combat related issues for the campaigns in NWN. At least not in the updates. And there is always something to fix out there.
That said I'm not saying it looks "bad" or that I think of it as a "cash grab" or anything like that. What I mean is that NWN could certainly receive even a better treatment than it already got.
Will Beamdog co-work some mods with the most talented modders or find ways to encourage them to make new content? Or are there any plans for some new official campaigns to back up the modding greatness?
And I know your mods Andarian and I think Sanctum was pretty good
If only Beamdog offered you and some other talented modders some nice cash and employ you to work for them on official/semi-official campaigns...
I admit that I did not watch many livestreams so I might have missed something but are there any plans for some UNIQUE new campaigns/mods that will be only available for those who purchase the Enhanced Edition of the game?
Yep, they will be doing new content. As I've been saying, they need to underline this and maybe give us a teaser title for the first one at launch! Better messaging would help cut down on confusion and premature sneering.
On the other hand if you want more things to do there are many thousands of modules out there which can fill that desire.
So you think they should just focus on the multiplayer then? ... Of course releasing a high quality new story campaign of their own would require a fair amount of time and money but I think there is a fair amount of players who would enjoy such an experience over improved visuals, interface and multiplayer.
Those who enjoyed the Single Player campaigns would certainly enjoy either an expansion to the existing ones so that it would feel like a new experience or just add a completely new campaign/s with a new story and characters.
It is not the case that the only alternatives for NWN are "multiplayer" and "the original campaign." The game was released with an adventure building toolset and was designed for the robust development of custom adventures. As FLB pointed out in in his comments, thousands of these custom modules have been released over the years. Many, and probably most, of these were single player compatible adventures. Hundreds of these are of high quality, and some of them have enjoyed a reputation over the years for being better than the NWN OCs themselves.
The whole point of Beamdog's focus on "backward compatibility" and "not breaking things" was so that these modules would still work in NWN:EE. Because of that, players of all kinds -- multiplayer and single player alike -- will have a large library of game content available to them to play when NWN:EE goes live. For SP compatible work, this includes award-winning mods such as the Aielund Saga and (if I may be permitted the immodesty) Sanctum of the Archmage. For a fuller list of what's available, take a look here.
Yeah, the modding community was great.
But I meant stuff that is not related to it.
The thing is that the old version fo NWN can already play most mods. So how can Beamdog plans to attract those folks?
Something that would make gamers go "Wow, so the Enhanced Edtions gives all that content which we cannot enjoy in the old version? I need to buy it!!!".
I did not watch most livestreams so I might have missed stuff but I noticed that there is no bug fixing for the campaigns in NWN when checking the latest updates.
Baldur's Gate Enhanced Editions offered new characters, quests, romances and items. Eventually even a new campaign(SoD). Icewind Dale also got new classes and restored content alongside the improved graphics.
NWN as of now though looks less impressive in terms of new content in comparison...
This is what frustrates me about the apparent need to keep coming to these forums to point out that Beamdog doesn't need to build everything for EE to be a success. This is a game designed for modders. I'd love to see a new campaign from Beamdog, too. But if players aren't going to respect the new modding that EE is inspiring as well, then should we even bother?
I just finished playing SOU and HotU just to get a feel for EE. I'm now waiting until after March 27 to go back and replay some of my old favorite Mods, plus play a lot of the newer ones that have come since I stopped playing NWN. Sanctum of the Archmage is most definitely one I want to play. Also if your novels ever end be converted to audiobooks I'll be picking them up too.
I just finished playing SOU and HotU just to get a feel for EE. I'm now waiting until after March 27 to go back and replay some of my old favorite Mods, plus play a lot of the newer ones that have come since I stopped playing NWN. Sanctum of the Archmage is most definitely one I want to play. Also if your novels ever end be converted to audiobooks I'll be picking them up too.
Thanks for the kind words! Yes, an audiobook version of my first novel is in the works for this year. I'm planning to do the narration myself. I just need to fit it in with a full-time job, writing the next book, and modding.
Don't let the anonymous sneery comments of internet bores get you down for even a second, new modules would be ridiculously appreciated -- we'll be enjoying updates for years to come and I hope new work from you is in the mix!
I dont really mind the polygons. The original assets are in many ways art-pieces. What I do want for the EE, however, is better light-effects, shadows, resolution, UI etc.
There are also new scripting functions, which once stabilized, will inspire module designers to build for EE rather than 1.69. In addition, the EE graphics takes better advantage of modern cards so the designer (like myself) is free to use high-polygon-count tilesets, creatures, and placeables. Also, if all goes as I expect, we should also be able to load up more ambient PCs and creatures (think The Witcher) and still maintain a playable experience.
The net effect that I see is that builders will be inspired to build better, i.e. more immersive modules. However, potential players won't see that until after the new modules are built. They need to see the eye candy (a picture is worth a thousand words). So this gives us an opportunity to showcase the best that the community has developed over the years (reskins, new tilesets, new classes) with the best possible graphics. Will that be enough? I don't know. All of the previous enhanced editions (BG, PS, IWD) relied on bug fixes and new content. NWN: EE is different in that it is relying on improved graphics and showcasing existing community content to attract casual players. Unless I'm missing something...!
I dont really mind the polygons. The original assets are in many ways art-pieces. What I do want for the EE, however, is better light-effects, shadows, resolution, UI etc.
Better lighting has already been added, alongside fixing vibrancy. Ambient Occlusion has been added. 4K Resolution supported. 1440p and 4K UI support added. General UI is still... What it has been.
I think you guys are nuts. NWN's original campaign amounted to barely more than a freaking demo-module. Incredibly boring and you can't even continue into the expansion because the first expansion is meant for level 1 toons.
It's the two expansions and user created content that makes NWN good. I wish there was a way to not have to buy the original campaign in the upcoming EE. I'd let them deleted the OC to save 25 cents and I am dead serious. The campaign is garbage.
I think you guys are nuts. NWN's original campaign amounted to barely more than a freaking demo-module. Incredibly boring and you can't even continue into the expansion because the first expansion is meant for level 1 toons.
It's the two expansions and user created content that makes NWN good. I wish there was a way to not have to buy the original campaign in the upcoming EE. I'd let them deleted the OC to save 25 cents and I am dead serious. The campaign is garbage.
A 4 and a half chapter campaign amounts to a demo module? You'd delete the original campaign to save 25 cents?
I think you guys are nuts. NWN's original campaign amounted to barely more than a freaking demo-module. Incredibly boring and you can't even continue into the expansion because the first expansion is meant for level 1 toons.
It's the two expansions and user created content that makes NWN good. I wish there was a way to not have to buy the original campaign in the upcoming EE. I'd let them deleted the OC to save 25 cents and I am dead serious. The campaign is garbage.
A 4 and a half chapter campaign amounts to a demo module? You'd delete the original campaign to save 25 cents?
There's a lot of exaggeration going on.
Maybe a little exaggeration but not much. The original campaign has a few problems that destroy the experience for me.
You begin at level one and usually complete the game before epic level (sometimes long before). The two expansions are continued one after the other - the first beginning at level 1 and the second beginning around level 15 or so. Where does that leave the original campaign?
Okay, so who cares, right? Just play the OC and enjoy it for what it is. But that's just the problem...it's not any good. If I'm going to play a D&D game with the understanding that I'll never even see epic levels, it better either a) be pen and paper or b) be a really really good story. The OC is not a very good story. I can only imagine what coming from BG2 to NWN must've been like for those who played them when they were released. Probably a really big let down.
It's pretty much the general consensus that the NWN OC is ass. Just use google or something. It's not as if I'm just being contrarian and ripping on some classic game. NWN is good because of what came after. The OC is total horse manure.
SoU and HoTU were a bit better but I didn't think the OC was that bad. It's assumed that Aribeth is executed or whatever in the aftermath and ends up frozen in hell, but that's an untold chapter. Maybe they extend the story a bit, if indeed they are remastering the OC, as seems to be the case judging by screenshots.
Do you think that new players will like the OC? If you play it, do you think it will keep your interest? Because I really think that the original OC will be the first thing people play.
Many people, sometimes vocal, dislike the OC. I like the OC. Many people, oftentimes not very vocal, like the OC. I like the OC. Many people who dislike the OC, like the expansions. I like the expansions. Many people who like the OC . . . well, you get the idea? To each their own, as far as a subjective claim like whether a certain story is 'good' or 'bad'. A lot of people love Stephen King; a lot of people called him schlocky. It's called taste, and every taste is unique.
To me, despite some faults, I find the OC to be an engaging story about loss of faith, retribution, vengeance over justice, powers behind powers, plagues, ruins, love and death, mercy and wrath. Oh, and fetching stuff.
I really think it gets a worse rap than it deserves, but that's just me, just my taste. I can't say others ought to like it!
It still needs to be re-titled "The Wailing Death" and placed further down the list of modules so newcomers don't play it first. Then it can be a "hidden gem" instead of a plodding disappointment.
Which is why I ask “why can’t beamdog make a new campaign/module before releasing the EE”?
“They will” isn’t something people want to here. Beamdog said They “will” put SOD on tablet. Well that took 2 years. Will it take two years for a game I am buying today to get a new campaign? “No no no” people say. “It will be sooner”. Then why hurry releasing this?
Sheesh all this talk about the OC is so old hat. What worries me is given the nearness of the steam release date, by when do I have to decide whether I want a steam key or not. I thought I had months left to decide but BD do this.
@Stormvessel there is a very simple reason why you can't achieve epic levels with the OC. They weren't implemented in the game until HotU was released. One thing, I enjoyed the OC for what it was, unlike some people who were expecting a prettier version of the Icewind Dale etc. games.
When I played the OC back before the xp was lowered I made it to level 20 well before it ended. When I later loaded my character after epic levels were added I had enough xp for level 22. Getting to 20th level made the oc feel more complete. Getting to level 15 now seems like a let down since there are no official modules to do with the character.
Which is why I ask “why can’t beamdog make a new campaign/module before releasing the EE”?
“They will” isn’t something people want to here. Beamdog said They “will” put SOD on tablet. Well that took 2 years. Will it take two years for a game I am buying today to get a new campaign? “No no no” people say. “It will be sooner”. Then why hurry releasing this?
They seem to be a rather small company with no excess of manpower and resources.
So things that require a fair deal of time and money won't happen soon.
Comments
Why not release then just "NWN Multiplayer" and do nothing for the story campaigns(maybe not even include them at all) if there are many who no longer care about these after experiencing them once?
Of course releasing a high quality new story campaign of their own would require a fair amount of time and money but I think there is a fair amount of players who would enjoy such an experience over improved visuals, interface and multiplayer.
Those who enjoyed the Single Player campaigns would certainly enjoy either an expansion to the existing ones so that it would feel like a new experience or just add a completely new campaign/s with a new story and characters.
The whole point of Beamdog's focus on "backward compatibility" and "not breaking things" was so that these modules would still work in NWN:EE. Because of that, players of all kinds -- multiplayer and single player alike -- will have a large library of game content available to them to play when NWN:EE goes live. For SP compatible work, this includes award-winning mods such as the Aielund Saga and (if I may be permitted the immodesty) Sanctum of the Archmage. For a fuller list of what's available, take a look here.
I meant in terms of content that is not modding related. Of course modding had been a blessing for many games keeping an interest in them long past the vanilla content.
But the thing is that most mods can still be played in NWN "Old Edition".
So how to attract new players who already own the old version and can play most mods?
I admit that I did not watch many livestreams so I might have missed something but are there any plans for some UNIQUE new campaigns/mods that will be only available for those who purchase the Enhanced Edition of the game?
So that players would go "Damn, so you can play/enjoy that stuff in the Enhanced Edition?! And it is completely unavailable for the old version?! I need to have it!!!".
Baldur's Gate Enhanced Editions offered new characters, romances, quests, items and eventually even a new campaign(Siege of Dragonspear). Icewind Dale also got new classes and restored content alongside the improved graphics.
In comparison the Enhanced versions of Planscape Torment and (for now) NWN seem less impressive.
I do not even see bug fixes for quests or combat related issues for the campaigns in NWN. At least not in the updates. And there is always something to fix out there.
That said I'm not saying it looks "bad" or that I think of it as a "cash grab" or anything like that. What I mean is that NWN could certainly receive even a better treatment than it already got.
Will Beamdog co-work some mods with the most talented modders or find ways to encourage them to make new content? Or are there any plans for some new official campaigns to back up the modding greatness?
And I know your mods Andarian and I think Sanctum was pretty good
If only Beamdog offered you and some other talented modders some nice cash and employ you to work for them on official/semi-official campaigns...
Yep, they will be doing new content. As I've been saying, they need to underline this and maybe give us a teaser title for the first one at launch! Better messaging would help cut down on confusion and premature sneering.
But I meant stuff that is not related to it.
The thing is that the old version fo NWN can already play most mods. So how can Beamdog plans to attract those folks?
Something that would make gamers go "Wow, so the Enhanced Edtions gives all that content which we cannot enjoy in the old version? I need to buy it!!!".
I did not watch most livestreams so I might have missed stuff but I noticed that there is no bug fixing for the campaigns in NWN when checking the latest updates.
Baldur's Gate Enhanced Editions offered new characters, quests, romances and items. Eventually even a new campaign(SoD). Icewind Dale also got new classes and restored content alongside the improved graphics.
NWN as of now though looks less impressive in terms of new content in comparison...
Well thanks for that vote of confidence in the current modding community.
TR
This is what frustrates me about the apparent need to keep coming to these forums to point out that Beamdog doesn't need to build everything for EE to be a success. This is a game designed for modders. I'd love to see a new campaign from Beamdog, too. But if players aren't going to respect the new modding that EE is inspiring as well, then should we even bother?
What I do want for the EE, however, is better light-effects, shadows, resolution, UI etc.
The net effect that I see is that builders will be inspired to build better, i.e. more immersive modules. However, potential players won't see that until after the new modules are built. They need to see the eye candy (a picture is worth a thousand words). So this gives us an opportunity to showcase the best that the community has developed over the years (reskins, new tilesets, new classes) with the best possible graphics. Will that be enough? I don't know. All of the previous enhanced editions (BG, PS, IWD) relied on bug fixes and new content. NWN: EE is different in that it is relying on improved graphics and showcasing existing community content to attract casual players. Unless I'm missing something...!
Ambient Occlusion has been added.
4K Resolution supported.
1440p and 4K UI support added.
General UI is still... What it has been.
But 4/5 isn't bad
It's the two expansions and user created content that makes NWN good. I wish there was a way to not have to buy the original campaign in the upcoming EE. I'd let them deleted the OC to save 25 cents and I am dead serious. The campaign is garbage.
You'd delete the original campaign to save 25 cents?
There's a lot of exaggeration going on.
You begin at level one and usually complete the game before epic level (sometimes long before). The two expansions are continued one after the other - the first beginning at level 1 and the second beginning around level 15 or so. Where does that leave the original campaign?
Okay, so who cares, right? Just play the OC and enjoy it for what it is. But that's just the problem...it's not any good. If I'm going to play a D&D game with the understanding that I'll never even see epic levels, it better either a) be pen and paper or b) be a really really good story. The OC is not a very good story. I can only imagine what coming from BG2 to NWN must've been like for those who played them when they were released. Probably a really big let down.
It's pretty much the general consensus that the NWN OC is ass. Just use google or something. It's not as if I'm just being contrarian and ripping on some classic game. NWN is good because of what came after. The OC is total horse manure.
If you play it, do you think it will keep your interest?
Because I really think that the original OC will be the first thing people play.
Many people, oftentimes not very vocal, like the OC. I like the OC.
Many people who dislike the OC, like the expansions. I like the expansions.
Many people who like the OC . . . well, you get the idea? To each their own, as far as a subjective claim like whether a certain story is 'good' or 'bad'. A lot of people love Stephen King; a lot of people called him schlocky.
It's called taste, and every taste is unique.
To me, despite some faults, I find the OC to be an engaging story about loss of faith, retribution, vengeance over justice, powers behind powers, plagues, ruins, love and death, mercy and wrath. Oh, and fetching stuff.
I really think it gets a worse rap than it deserves, but that's just me, just my taste. I can't say others ought to like it!
-JFK
“They will” isn’t something people want to here.
Beamdog said They “will” put SOD on tablet. Well that took 2 years.
Will it take two years for a game I am buying today to get a new campaign?
“No no no” people say. “It will be sooner”.
Then why hurry releasing this?
@Stormvessel there is a very simple reason why you can't achieve epic levels with the OC. They weren't implemented in the game until HotU was released. One thing, I enjoyed the OC for what it was, unlike some people who were expecting a prettier version of the Icewind Dale etc. games.
TR
So things that require a fair deal of time and money won't happen soon.
A shame.
Bad reviews about "what's so enhanced? The gog version is cheaper and works, blah and blubb" are rolling in.
Well, we told you...