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Paladin Cavalier - witch weapons? [BG1EE]

SalvadorekSalvadorek Member Posts: 3
Hi!

I decied to play Cavalier but i have no idea where should i put points?
The first problem is kind of weapon. What will be the best option? axes? long sword? flail? bastard sword? 2h? (i don't like 2h sword so much ;)

And the second quesion is: which style is ok? shield and sword? two-handed sword? dual-wielding? maybe nothing ;) I wanna play Cavalier just in BG1 so Carsomir is not interesting for me ;)

Thanks for any advices!

Comments

  • DevardKrownDevardKrown Member Posts: 418
    edited February 15
    Its Hard to say and depends on your Meta Knowledge and what you visual like, also the role of your Cavalier and if you wanna drag him through all parts of the game.

    Do you want to Dual-Wield ? and be more of a Damage-Dealer.
    Or be the front liner with a shield soaking those dangerous Arrows, in any case decent one handed weapons are quick and easy to get.

    in any Case you can use a "sword" and shield without using any Ability points ...but you cant dual-wield with less than two pips in it (or you don't hit crap)

    Personally i would start out With 2 Points hammers and 2 points dualwield. (there is a quick +2hammer with+1 electrical damage to get if you know who to kill "Ashideena+2") since blunt weapon kinda hit all enemys , and you can just swap between shield and a off hand weapon to your liking.

    if you stay within BG1 you might wanna go longsword for Viscona+2 (+1 cold dmg) or maybe even dagger , and use throwing daggers in your spare time (also a couple good +2 daggers around)

    if you plan to go to SoA and ToB you wanna pick up Bastard Swords , 2 of the best +5 swords in the end are bastard swords (and one is paladin only)

  • VheissuVheissu Member Posts: 13
    Long sword for Varscona, hammer for Ashideena or mace if you want, there's a nice mace hidden in Beregost. Flails would be great but magical flails are few and far between. Same goes for axes. There are good bastard swords, but only later in the game.

    A point or two in daggers or darts is a good idea, since cavaliers can still use throwing weapons, just not bows and crossbows.

    Two-handed swords really are the best, if only because of the sword that grants immunity to web and poison. Have your mages cast one or two webs and the paladin can take care of the rest.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,033
    Personally, I like either Bastard swords or two handers for my Paladins.

  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,167

    Personally i would start out With 2 Points hammers and 2 points dualwield. (there is a quick +2hammer with+1 electrical damage to get if you know who to kill "Ashideena+2") since blunt weapon kinda hit all enemys , and you can just swap between shield and a off hand weapon to your liking.

    if you stay within BG1 you might wanna go longsword for Viscona+2 (+1 cold dmg) or maybe even dagger , and use throwing daggers in your spare time (also a couple good +2 daggers around)

    Interesting order. I tend to loot Varscona before Ashideena. Both are good weapons, though.

    Remember, you get a total of 6 pips in BG1, so if you go the Dualwield route, you could start with 2 pips in WeaponA, and 2 pips in Dualwield. Then you can place the 3rd pip in Dualwield at level 3, and the 1st pip in WeaponB at level 6. In SoD, you can place the 2nd pip in WeaponB.

    While Paladins usually aren't associated with Dualwielding, they're pretty good at it here, because they get the same pips as fighter (just a little slower, though, as they level slightly slower), but they can only go 2 pips into weapons, and since Cavaliers can't go Bows and Crossbows, you get more pips than you really need, making Dualwielding a nobrainer to bick up.

    You could alternatively go for Twohanded, but if you like to ever swap to a shield, Dualwielding relies on the same weapon proficiencies. Note however that you can't quickswitch between Dualwielding and shield, whereas you can quickswitch between Twohanded and Dualwielding (the offhand is ignored while there's a Twohanded weapon in your mainhand, so you could place a shield there and quickswitch between a Onehanded and a Twohanded weapon).

    The Shield style is not really that good. It provides bonuses to ranged attacks only. Not useless, but certainly not mandatory to make shields useful.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,033
    I mostly agree with @Thels except about shield style. BG1 is the best time to pick it up, as ranged weapons are so powerful in BG1. If you don't like two handers, you can one hand + shield with the style to really curb the danger of archers. In bg2/SoD you can swap to a dual wield style for more offense, or even keep the shield (Some shields are VERY good, adding immunities and extra AC).

  • thelovebatthelovebat Member Posts: 218
    edited February 16
    Sword & board in Baldur's Gate 1 can be really helpful, however investing points into the Sword & Shield fighting style is very unnecessary because of all the extra equipment and magical items you'll have access to making you already very tanky against ranged weapons. If one of the points put into Sword & Shield style gave you +1 flat bonus to AC then it would be worth it cus it would help out in melee combat, but getting only tankier and tankier against a single kind of attack has diminishing returns because enemies will always have a minimum 5% chance to hit you if they roll a 20 on their attack for a critical hit.

    With all the equipment you can get to give bonuses to AC or additional AC modifiers against certain kinds of attacks, plus armor AC modifiers for the heavier armor, Sword & Shield fighting style doesn't have any noticeable gains beyond the opening stages of the first game. Early in Baldur's Gate 1 you have little hitpoints and not much equipment to work with, but if you have a high Dexterity, gather up the nice equipment from the different early and mid game areas, and get yourself some heavy armor and a nice shield, then you won't even need the fighting style anymore. Not something that's going to help in the long term even for the first game, you can go with using a sword & shield and you don't need to put points into the fighting style.

    So to me your best bet is to go with one of these things

    1. Dual wield starting with one weapon then putting points into a secondary weapon. You could use the best of each of those weapon selections at the same time with dual wielding.

    2. Put points into 3 different weapons of your choice and use a shield in the off hand. Can go with one bladed weapon, one blunt weapon, and one throwing weapon option like Axes or Daggers (some magical daggers may also come in handy during some encounters).

    3. Go with Two Handed Style starting with Two Handed Swords or Quarterstaves, then adding points into the option you didn't start with points into so you have a blade option and blunt option (also non magical staves won't break on you since they aren't metal).

  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 3,476
    edited February 16
    As usual, it depends a bit on who you tag along with you, ie if anyone should have first dibs on a good end-weapon since the NPCs has predetermined proficiencies.

    With this said, in BG1 the need for crushing is less than in BG2. It's still probably the best weapon category overall, but there aren't as many times where it's needed. So, choosing slashing or even piercing weapons doesn't make you weaker. Also, you can use shields just fine without any prof points in S&S style. Personally I only think that S&S style is needed for classes stuck with bucklers since if you put the +3 elve's bane girdle and the +5 sense of the cat vs missiles, those +8 on top of a fullplate armor make you practically immune to non-critical hits. Adding S&S on top of that is just redundant since shields also give natural boosts vs missiles, early version of large shields +1 adds another +2 so you end up with +10 AC vs missiles directly after Nashkel mines. Noone really need more than that.

    ____________________________________________

    Axes are a great category in BG1. You get axes up to +3, one of the few weapon categories which has +3 weapons in BG1 (2h sword, quarterstaff, shortsword, scimitar being a few others). Most other weapons will have their best weapons being +2. Not a huge difference for a warrior class since your THAC0 will be good enough to practically never miss, but just food for thought. You can buy a throwing axe +1 and use it purely in melee from the very beginning. Next to the potential +1 dagger in Candlekeep, I think this is the easiest obtainable +1 weapon available in BG1. The third one is the +1 qstaff I think, but don't quote me on this. In the end axes will have many options all the way through the game, including bala's axe for miscast magic, throwing axes and magical +2 and +3 versions. There's few NPCs who naturally weild axes as well, Kagain being one and Khalid potentially another.

    Scimitars are the best but only if you don't mind "taking" them from a certain good-aligned person. Dualweilding those two are pretty OP for BG1 since you get +AC and a massive boost to fire resist. Use a ring of fire resistance or two and then your mages can bombard you with fireballs while you entertain the enemy mobs. Very efficient. If you can't RP taking those, there's still two good +2 scimi's available to you, one of which can be obtained quite early. Another good thing about scimis is that if you buy the wakishashi or ninjato in candlekeep, they can't break since their iron is not from the swordcoast. You get a wazishashi +1 early in the game as well, from the Dorn encounter. Personally I think this weapon category is too good and that at least the wakizashi should have been in the shortsword category instead of the scimitar category (they are both piercing damage, where-as scimis and ninjatos are slashing).

    I like paladins with twohanded specialization, it fits the theme. So choosing quarterstaffs and ie halberds or whatever is really cool. You can still weild the staff mace +2 singlehanded with a shield if/when needed and then use the staff+3 and just go berzerk on your enemies. RP wise you can say that your CHARNAME was inspired by the guards of candlekeep. If you wear plate and the same kind of helmet you will look just like a candlekeep guard with your quarterstaff! Wearing a halberd also looks really cool and you can switch between the Chelsey crusher and another weapon to avoid the "set ARP to 1". It's a bit of a hassle so it's not something I would recommend vs anything but the big bad bosses.

    Longswords are, as always, a great choice. So is hammers, as said by others above. Both offer easily accessable +2 versions. Personally I hate the hammer since after a few hours of hearing that super-annoying sound bit from the electric damage, I just couldn't stand it anymore and nowadays I never use hammers in BG1 anymore. A bit childish perhaps, but I have sensitive ears :P ;)

    If you only play BG1 I don't like bastard swords. The only time you really need it you can use it even without pips in the category and there's a lackluster options to choose from. You can steal a +1 one very, very early though if you can find RP reasons to do so.

    Maces I don't like that much in BG1, nor clubs (clubs has the worst selection of magical versions IMHO). Flails offer some +1 versions you can get fairly early at least.

    EDIT: Btw, with the potion of speed now doubling you APR instead of adding +1, this means even 2hand weapon users can reach 4 APR (level 7 + specialization + doubled that from potion). Of course this means that dualwielding reaches even higher, but that's just plain overkill for 99% of BG1 anyways.

  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 660
    If you're only playing BG1, I'd stick with either Long or Bastard Swords. If you end up taking that character into BG2 then Katanas are also a good idea (unless you have trouble justifying it RP-wise).
    I usually go with dual-wielding for my Paladins because it makes my life easier, though I must admit I prefer Sword & Shield as far as appearances go.

    All in all, I think it depends on what you're looking for. Do you want a powerfull character who deals tons of damage? Do you want to actually RP a proper Paladin? Do you just want him to look cool?
    Finding a portrait that you like might also help choosing which direction to take with your character. I find myself 99% of the time creating my characters based on the portraits I choose, instead of creating the characters first and then choosing a portrait that fits them lol.

  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,200
    @Salvadorek
    Start with two points in Long swords and two points in Two-weapon style. You can get some very good long swords like:
    Varscona, Harrower and The Burning Earth.


    Next, add one or two points in either Daggers or Axes (you can use throwing daggers and axes as ranged weapons). It will add versatility. Alternatively, you can start with one point each in longswords and daggers, and later add the second point.

    You can also get to use the Dagger of Venom if you invest points in daggers,
    though it's mostly used by rogues. Still it's one of the most powerful weapons in BG1.


    However, you might later want to add points to Two Handed Swords since there are some good ones out there.
    Spiders' Bane and The World's Edge


    Nevertheless, long swords, two weapon style and daggers are a better choice.

    Hope this helps! :smiley:

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    I think Cavaliers should use Paladin weapons, not Witch weapons. :smile:

    I always like to have the stupefier mace on a good warrior in Baldur's Gate, and not just because I love the name. Also, longswords can be great since you get a very good one (Varscona) early in the game.

  • NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 241
    Personally like axes and halberds. A certain axe makes Cavalivier like a pseudo Inquisitor with way more resistances. Plus with a little knowledge of the CLUAConsole at a reason point in the game (around level 5) there's a nice little +2 throwing axe not available in-game with amazing effects.

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 1,941
    Noloir said:

    Personally like axes and halberds. A certain axe makes Cavalivier like a pseudo Inquisitor with way more resistances. Plus with a little knowledge of the CLUAConsole at a reason point in the game (around level 5) there's a nice little +2 throwing axe not available in-game with amazing effects.

    That axe is available in SoD. It would be a seriously overpowered item for a level-5 character in BG1.

  • NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 241
    joluv said:

    Noloir said:

    Personally like axes and halberds. A certain axe makes Cavalivier like a pseudo Inquisitor with way more resistances. Plus with a little knowledge of the CLUAConsole at a reason point in the game (around level 5) there's a nice little +2 throwing axe not available in-game with amazing effects.

    That axe is available in SoD. It would be a seriously overpowered item for a level-5 character in BG1.
    Can always play vanilla and just do it the old fashion way. One throwing axe at a time.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 4,726

    I think Cavaliers should use Paladin weapons, not Witch weapons. :smile:

    I always like to have the stupefier mace on a good warrior in Baldur's Gate, and not just because I love the name. Also, longswords can be great since you get a very good one (Varscona) early in the game.

    A paladin can't get the Stupefier mace without stealing or condoning stealing. I know the game doesn't enforce it, but that *should* make him a fallen paladin with the loss of all cavalier abilities.

  • vyvexthornevyvexthorne Member Posts: 53
    edited May 10
    Me personally, I give Paladins two handed sword, flail, two handed weapon style and sword and shield style. I don't know why.. just always have.


    Clerics get maces and flails, Rangers get axes and hammers, druids get darts and scimitars, Bards get crossbow and bastard sword, thieves get short swords and short bow, mages get slings and quarterstaves... This is how I do things for no apparent reason.

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 5,726
    If you don’t mind stealing, there is a +1 Bastard sword early in the game as well.

    There also some mid and late game bastard swords as well so while you play, it’ll feel like you’re upgrading as you progress unlike one and doning with long swords.

    That and hardly any other NPCs (I think just Ajantis) are proficient in them.

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,772

    A paladin can't get the Stupefier mace without stealing or condoning stealing. I know the game doesn't enforce it, but that *should* make him a fallen paladin with the loss of all cavalier abilities.

    Just have Imoen snatch it while CHARNAME isn't looking and say "hey buddy, look what I found!" ... have a stupid enough paladin (common dump stat for that class) and it adds up!

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,033
    Quartz said:

    A paladin can't get the Stupefier mace without stealing or condoning stealing. I know the game doesn't enforce it, but that *should* make him a fallen paladin with the loss of all cavalier abilities.

    Just have Imoen snatch it while CHARNAME isn't looking and say "hey buddy, look what I found!" ... have a stupid enough paladin (common dump stat for that class) and it adds up!
    Imoen strikes me as more of a michievous explorer thief, and not an outright grand theft thief. She will explore a dungeon and playfully tease party members about it, but wouldn't steal from a commoner.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 419
    She got her start in Candlekeep, so I figure she can't exclusively be into dungeoneering.

    Unless she was raiding the catacombs by herself when she was still an amateur, which seems like it would've been certain death.

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