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Immunity to 3 Spells: Ideas and Feedbacks are Wanted!

RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
Hello :)

So, I'm making a little mod called Deities of Faerûn and this mod contains a component called Dweomerkeeper of Mystra and this component contains one feature: the cleric can choose 3 spells to become immune.

My first idea would be to block Dispel Magic, Remove Magic and Spellstrike, but the first two can be used in favor of the caster for removing a nasty effect from him/her.

My second idea was Spellstrike, Ruby Ray of Reversal and Khelben's Warding Whip, but I don't remember if I ever saw an enemy, even with SCS, use one of those. So the ability would become close to useless.

So I decided to ask around. I'm open for suggestions of three spells to block.

I'll tag @semiticgod @Grond0 @histamiini @Alesia_BH @Lord_Tansheron because AFAIK you guys are very familiar with the challenges the game proposes. But anyone else is welcome to give an opinion.

Just one rule for this: the spells need to be a cleric/druid/shaman or wizard/sorcerer spell. So no innates or spell-like abilities like the gaze of a basilisk.

Thanks in advance!

Comments

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,092
    I am extremely tired and when I read this post, I thought it was saying that I was immune to ideas and feedback.

    RaduzielThacoBellelminster
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    @semiticgod I just made a little adjustment in the title lol.

    semiticgod
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,737
    The choice would be influenced by whether SCS is being used. For instance blocking flame arrow / skull trap sequencers or smite / blight would be useful with SCS, but useless without.

    Making the immunity to a specific spell, rather than an effect is quite limiting. For instance immunity to fear is great, but immunity to horror far less so as many fear effects come from abilities or other spells.

    Immunity to true sight would be useful whatever the installation and if you counted true seeing as the same spell that has what would seem to me to be an RP advantage of blocking both arcane & divine spells - the same could apply to confusion and finger of death.

    Raduziel
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,509
    edited July 2018
    Raduziel said:

    But anyone else is welcome to give an opinion.

    Just one rule for this: the spells need to be a cleric/druid/shaman or wizard/sorcerer spell. So no innates or spell-like abilities like the gaze of a basilisk.

    Hmm... if you'd allow choosing between any three spells from only the arcane or divine spell lists, here are a few possible spell combinations I would like to suggest:

    1. Maze + Breach + True Sight (General all-purpose combo. I'm not very sure, but Breach seems to be used much oftener than Spellstrike, and since, as stated above, the immunity is against the particular spell and not the effect, protection against Breach would, in my opinion, find greater utility)
    2. Horrid Wilting + Skull Trap + Finger of Death (Anti-Necromancy combo, since Mystra is the enemy of Myrkul)
    3. Maze + Imprisonment + Power Word, Kill (Anti-High level killer spells)
    4. Breach + Remove Magic + Spellstrike (Anti-anti-magic)

    Several other interesting combinations should be possible, though any of these mentioned above seem to have widespread general utility, rather than being overtly specific, so that the special ability of the kit remains useful throughout. :)

    Raduziel
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    Nice suggestions, both of you @Grond0 and @Rik_Kirtaniya Thanks!

    Remove Magic is party friendly, so making the character immune to it makes little sense - and enemies relies more on Dispel Magic than in Remove Magic, I think.

    I like the idea that you both gave of immunity to TS and I'll probably stick with it.

    My first idea, before the stupid idea of Remove Magic/Dispel Magic, was Breach, Secret Word, Spell Thrust. Just found this looking at my notes.

    I'll wait a little more to see if more people give their opinion.

    Again, thanks!

    Grond0Rik_Kirtaniya
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,092
    When I think about it, this ability is a little less broken than it seems at first glance. A cleric already has numerous means of gaining immunity to all kinds of spells. Remove Fear, Free Action, Chaotic Commands will block all disablers (remove Free Action to let both haste and Web spells through), Death Ward will block all instant death effects besides petrification, and Shield of the Archons will block all single-target spells. Magic Resistance will block up to 40% of all other spells save for the handful that bypass MR. On top of that, a single-classed cleric will have very high levels and will be much more resistant to dispel magic effects than most characters. Shorter-lasting buffs can also grant immunity to fire damage, and buffs from party members can block everything from Skull Trap to Flesh to Stone. A party mage's Limited Wish can even grant party-wide immunity to level 1-3 spells.

    Making the character immune to Breach should obviate the need for immunities to magic attacks like Spell Thrust/Secret Word/Pierce Magic/Ruby Ray/Warding Whip/Pierce Shield/Spellstrike, since those spells, when used against a cleric, are primarily useful for removing Shield of the Archons in order to pave the way for a Breach that could dispel all other buffs.

    This is only useful in SCS, however, since non-SoD, unmodded spellcasters never use Breach. If you do use SCS, then enemy spellcasters will essentially only use Remove Magic instead of Dispel Magic. Since SCS spellcasters often have the levels to land Remove Magic even on high-level clerics, immunity to Remove Magic will still be a good option, at least for no-reload purposes.

    Note that SCS spellcasters won't use Imprisonment on the main character.

    Conceptually speaking, I think anti-anti-magic spells would make the most sense for a cleric of Mystra.

    Grond0ThacoBellRaduziel
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    Just some important information, in DoF Dweomerkeepers of Mystra may cast the following spells as priest spells:

    [Weave]

    1 - Magic Missile
    Shield

    2 - Silence 15' Radius
    Vocalize

    3 - Lance of Disruption
    Miscast Magic
    Spell Thrust

    4 - Force Missiles
    Minor Globe of Invulnerability
    Secret Word

    5 - Breach
    Lower Resistance
    Magic Resistance

    6 - Globe of Invulnerability
    Pierce Magic
    Spell Immunity

    7 - Pierce Shield
    Protection From Magical Weapons

    semiticgod
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,468
    edited July 2018
    Immunity to True Sight will not work if the player uses SR and/or TnB spell tweaks. Those mods set True Sight to use the "invisibility detection by script" opcode on the caster, rather than affecting enemies. Or maybe in addition to affecting enemies. I forget. Plus that would seem more fitting for a deity of illusions or something, not a deity of magic.

    Giving anyone immunity to Spellstrike seems OP. It's 9th-level magic, it shouldn't be blocked by a simple kit ability. IMHO. If you going to give permanent immunity to three spells, I would choose ones 6th level and lower. Something like, Spell Thrust (super handy with SCS), Lower Resistance, and Greater Malison.

    RaduzielThacoBell
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    edited July 2018
    @subtledoctor Those immunities are only achieved at level 15. Does it alter your opinion somehow?

    Edit: Well, with this new information, and since SR is such a popular mod, I'll have to put TS aside.

    Remove Magic will enten now definitely.

    One decided, two to go.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,468
    For an ability that is free and permanent? Yeah. I mean kinda the whole point of 9th-level magic is that it overcomes immunities and defenses that mid-level magic cannot.

    I think some HLA mods - Refinements maybe? - give Abjurers an HLA that provides immunity to Spellstrike. But that's an HLA with a very short duration. Permanent immunity at level 15 is just wild in comparison.

    I'm not sure Mystra herself should have immunity to Spellstrike. Remember that Mystra loves wizard duels, and is very much a stickler for abiding by the rules of how magic works and spells interact. She would want her followers to win magic battles by being better than their opponents - not by getting simple blanket immunity to one of the most powerful tools in a magical duelist's arsenal.

    TBH I don't love this idea at all... ut to the extent you go forward with it I would lean toward a focus on "utility immunity." For instance SCS often uses Spell Thrust to remove Spell Shields, before casting Spellstrike. Giving immunity to Spell Thrust will therefore neutralize an important tactic and force opponents to waste higher-level slots to remove your Spell Shield.* That's an appreciable and useful ability, without being god-like.

    (Assuming the opponents can determine that you are immune to Spell Thrust. Are you including a 328 effect or other method to make the immunity work with Detectable Spells/EE AI?)

    RaduzielThacoBell
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    @subtledoctor Loved the argument, Spellstrike is out.

    ---

    No, pure and simple Op206.

    And I think that, as in a PnP session, you would only discover that the enemy have a rare immunity to something by trial-and-error.

    What is this 328 about?

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    Ok,

    I'm inclined to choose the following:

    Breach, Secret Word and Remove Magic.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    It's official: Breach, Secret Word and Remove Magic.

    Thanks everybody for the insights :)

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