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Dorn redemption?

SindyanSindyan Member Posts: 146
edited October 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
I would you guys feel or view if there was a chance for redemption (convert to good) for dorn? Maybe switching to a special paladin kit.
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Comments

  • SindyanSindyan Member Posts: 146
    How would you guys* silly ipad auto correct
  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    Xzar said:

    Dont want this, unless theres a chance for Rasaad's dark side path.

    Not even unless. I think sarevok redemption was in good taste, but not so much other NPC's. Leave them all as originally intended!
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited October 2012
    Depends on how well it is written... Having the option available might not be a terrible thing, in theory...

    I think that the whole subject of the PC's ability to alter NPCs' alignments is something probably best offered across the spectrum for all NPCs via a mod, though.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    Kamigoroshi said:

    No, just no.

    Blackguards sell their souls to gain a boon from the Lower Planes. As such, it makes no sense whatsoever for them to have a chance for redemption. It's common knowledge that you won't get a refund in the soul selling business.

    I would think this is the definitive answer!
  • SceptenarSceptenar Member Posts: 606
    Please don't. Let him be committed to evil.
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    I doubt it is possible to recover his soul at these low levels. Even if he is willing (for whatever undisclosed reason). Traveling to the lower planes below level 10? No thanks :)
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Yeah, no. Sometimes you can't make the leopard change their spots, no matter how much you love them and no matter all your good intentions. You know where they say the path of good intentions lead, right? And, technically, we already do have someone turning to the Dark side. Anomen, if he fails his test for the order of the Radiant Heart. Maybe they should allow him to turn evil. I understand he becomes a pretty bad asshole if he does turn Chaotic Neutral. Maybe they should let him slide further if "influenced" in that direction by an evil lady CHARNAME.
  • neleotheszeneleothesze Member Posts: 231
    edited October 2012
    I agree with @ekster. They could probably make him in such a way that he starts, at some point, to value the PCs opinion and company - perhaps even that of a select few others - while still being believably written; since a romance path is available in BG1 and will probably be continued in BG2, I'm guessing that he may start to care about someone other than himself.

    But many evil people care about a select few which they place above the rest of humanity. Many dictators were good husbands and fathers, many terrorists, weapon dealers or mafia bosses treated the people closest to themselves the way you'd treat the people you love. The difference is that we wouldn't start a genocide or sell drugs to kids. (Or at least I hope that no one here would :) )

    However... I can see a PC - one who is romantically involved with him - trying to win his soul back from the demon, if he's really sold his soul. Maybe we'll see a quest along the lines of 'Bring me the blood of a thousand innocents and you may have your soul back... whatever is left of it.'
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    edited October 2012
    I'd like to see more redemption paths in the game but not for all NPCs. As LadyRhian said, sometimes you can't make the leopard change their spots. I'd also like to see more paths for characters turning to the Darkside as well. Imoen, for instance, could easily become an evil psychopath after what Irenicus did to her.
    Post edited by mlnevese on
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    Likely because it doesn't have the same kind of impact on the disposition of the character.
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    @Shin I think it might also have to do with a larger cultural issue. Since most of the progenitors of high fantasy were Christians, their beliefs obviously influenced how they constructed their stories. Tolkein was Catholic, C. S. Lewis went from atheist to Anglican, and Gary Gygax was a Jehovah's Witnesses at one time. Good and evil are illustrated very distinctly in their writings, which is understandable since Christianity is a story of the struggle between good and evil. Given all the other forms of media (films, novels, TV shows, etc.) that have perpetuated this theme over several generations, it's no surprise that we like to see that theme portrayed over and over, especially when good prevails.

    The Lawful vs. Chaotic theme is much more alien to us. It reminds me of Cardassian culture (from Star Trek, especially DS9).
  • KaxonKaxon Member Posts: 156
    I actually think lawful vs chaotic is the more interesting axis, and is way under explored. It's basically the question of law and order vs. freedom that's very relevant in modern society.
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    @Kaxon Agreed. Very relevant, but not as prevalent of a narrative, imo.
  • revaarrevaar Member Posts: 160
    mlnevese said:

    I'd like to see more redemption paths in the game but not for all NPCs. As LadyRhian said, sometimes you can't make the leopard change their spots. I'd also like to see more paths for characters turning to the Darkside as well. Imoen, for instance, could easily become an evil psychopath after what Irenicus did to her.

    It would be great if you could shape Imoen's Alignment to match charname's. It would also be fitting with her "follow you wherever you go" character, as well as giving non-good pc's a reason to rescue her in BG 2.
  • paulsifer42paulsifer42 Member Posts: 267
    I think it's a cool idea if it's written well. Of course, it would likely fall flat, so, meh, let's just leave him evil.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    edited October 2012
    NEVER!!! What i'm gonna do with a blackguard with no powers? Besides why people has this need to convert to aham "good" everything? No one ask for a Rasaad corruption possibility, so let's leave dorn evil, ok?

    Edit: But a chance to get his soul back in BG II is surely interesting. Of course that get the soul back isn't the same of become good, he's evil, he get what he want and now he just want to take his soul back and keep his powers? He can't? tell this to his sword. Surely another demon will become interested if Dorn use force to get back his soul from the original demon he made a pact, maybe interested enough to become a new patron (after all it's more or less pretty clear to where a blackguard will go after his death).
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    Actually I did just that a few posts above, even gave Imoen as an example :)
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    edited October 2012
    revaar said:

    mlnevese said:

    I'd like to see more redemption paths in the game but not for all NPCs. As LadyRhian said, sometimes you can't make the leopard change their spots. I'd also like to see more paths for characters turning to the Darkside as well. Imoen, for instance, could easily become an evil psychopath after what Irenicus did to her.

    It would be great if you could shape Imoen's Alignment to match charname's. It would also be fitting with her "follow you wherever you go" character, as well as giving non-good pc's a reason to rescue her in BG 2.

    Evil PCs doesn't rescue Imoen in BG2, they pursue Irenicus for power (unless your roleplay dictates in that gameplay you're evil but care for Imoem, what's entirely possible).

    Edit: Well i believe we had a discussion about redemption/corruption a while ago, but i can't find the posts.

    Well, whatever. From my experience in BG II, the following original NPCs should have a corruption patch in my view of the game:

    Keldorn - Lawful Good to Chaotic Good.
    Event - In the betrayal suffered in his wife adultery event. Keldorn would kill her lover.
    Result - Obvious he become a fallen paladin this way, live with that. He just defend his honor and was caught in a weak spot, but the order will obvious condemn the act (probally would expel him). If another class will be given to him or if he will be an fallen paladin the rest of the game (the hardcore and nicest option) it's the mod/devs option (it's the weakest corruption idea in comparison to other NPCs)

    Aerie - Lawful Good to Chaotic Evil
    Event - this one in my opinion would require a serie of interleaved events and would be a romance required plot.
    1° Main char should charge aerie for the "ogre sword" that free her from the curse instead of just give it for free.
    2° Quayle should die when the party free the circus from the other gnome illusion.
    3° Main Char must not be nice to her in the romance (but should not use the hard lines that break the romance), the pragmatic answers (live with that, you will get used to earth life...), anyway the romance would need a review.
    4° should sleep with her at the first opportunity (what should make the romance freeze until the other requeriments are meet, then a new romance patch for evil Aerie should be taken).
    5° Should solve Copper Coronet, Windspear Hills, Umar Hill quest and Trademeet quest in the evil way, by siding with Lenthian and killing Hendark, Dealing with Firkgaark and steal/rob the Windspear hills deeds from Garren, intimidate the mayor of Umar Hills to pay the party with everything they have, and accept the trademeet offer made by one of the lords of the land, to solve the druid problem in the alternative way (posioning the land with sulfur).
    6° speak at least once with Belmin Gergas, the Elf Hater in waukeen's promenade and Salvanas in copper coronet.
    7° After the events in Underdark Aerie should change the alignment.
    Result - This alignment change should be done slow maybe, turning her first to chaotic good or chaotic neutral, and then to chaotic evil. Aerie would start to see that weak is always punished and only strenght could make her survive, no matter how injust if she don't do nothing for her no one will do, in reason of the events only the strong can survive in this world. well there's stuff to be worked in this idea at least.

    Vaylgar - Neutral Good to Lawful Neutral (and change class from stalker to Wizard slayer)
    Event - Trough banters main char could feed Vaylgar hate for magic or/and mages and this brainwash could make him hate mage/magic enough to become a wizard slayer. Of course a mage main char wouldn't be able to do it.
    Result - Well pretty clear already. Vaylgar unique items by the way are a weapon and armor, the only magical items allowed to WS, He could dual class to Wizard Slayer instead of entirely change the class (hardcore and more respectful to P&P rules... if not to the engine, as it will be a dual class character with 2 kits).

    Anomen - I posted already many reasons and ways for Anomen corruption, and his potential to be corrupted is pretty clear as other people here already stated, everyone has an idea for him on this issue so i will absent of elaborate one for him.

    But the 4 characters above are truly eligible to corruption (or modification for keldorn and Vaylgar).
    Post edited by kamuizin on
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    What about the protagonist's own corruption or ascension?
    A neutral character could become either good or evil , but my guess is that the oncoming events would make him a darker person.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    And it does. In Hell some of the tear of bhaal options, if taken will automatic turn your alignmet to evil (neutral evil if i'm not wrong), unless if you're already evil.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    kamuizin said:

    And it does. In Hell some of the tear of bhaal options, if taken will automatic turn your alignmet to evil (neutral evil if i'm not wrong), unless if you're already evil.

    Just because I made a wrong bloody decision? Bah!

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    Well... you asked and i answered, if that's good or not, if the change there is coherent or not i don't know, but the protagonist has a corruption option.

    Anyway, with all the clauses that prevent changes in the original content, i believe we can expect the same kind of shit as before (unfortunally).
  • KhamillKhamill Member Posts: 226
    edited October 2012
    I like that idea, under Charname's influence he could become either good or pure evil, Our actions could have an impact on his alignment. it would be a challangefull task to tame his temper though.
    ...or maybe a new alignment/class - The Wildfire, beneficial to Charname's alignent npc's but unbearable to opposite.
    I guess it would be kinda pointless to gather mixed alignment party with him though:/
    Oh well...only for those who likes chaos in their party :P
    Post edited by Khamill on
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