Quayle is amazing simply because he's an Illusionist/Cleric. I agree if they had another multiclass mage/cleric it'd make my day.
Nah. He has to be the only mage/cleric otherwise no one would ever pick him up; the whole purpose of Quayle and Yeslick is that they have two good stats, every other stat sucks, but they are still totally worthwhile because they have such a good multi-class (and innate ability).
I really love Xzar and Monty. They're like my best favorite duo on BG:EE. Xzar have great stats and can be dualed. Though Edwin is a better mage. And I don't know about other ppl. But I see Monty as a bonus. On higher levels he is a very good NPC.
I really love Xzar and Monty. They're like my best favorite duo on BG:EE. Xzar have great stats and can be dualed. Though Edwin is a better mage. And I don't know about other ppl. But I see Monty as a bonus. On higher levels he is a very good NPC.
I agree. Montaron can be quite deadly. He's great at backstabbing and can do it right out of the gate. Shar-Teel has an edge on backstabbing but she can't do it reliably until much later on. Montaron is actually quite good at ranged support. I've used him with a sling and maxed out his find traps/open locks and he's still a great NPC. With his halfling bonus to slings he's one of the best ranged npcs in the game.
I started with Xzar (and Monty) and was actually really enjoying having him in my party, I wanted to try out Edwin though, so sent Xzar of to get petrified (as I wanted to keep Monty in my party, plus also to have the option of reviving Xzar later, if I get sick of Edwin or want to dual Xzar to a cleric). I've now completed the Gnoll Fortress quest, and have to say that Edwin's banters are not as fun as Xzar's, though his bucketload of spells kind of makes up for it...
Dual classing to a necro/cleric in a game with such a small level cap and still getting 3rd/4th level spell casting is a soild idea. I'm not sure why you think gaining two more level of casting (Arcane 4th/5th) is SOOO much better than gaining 4 new levels of spells.
Lessee, because they are the best spells in the game?
Stoneskin, Greater Malison, Summon Monster II and III, Improved Invisibility (not that he can cast it...), Cloudkill, Hold Monster, Cone of Cold, Protection from Normal Weapons, Breach, ... I could go on.
Here's a short list of the great spells you gain with 4th level cleric spells: Doom, Remove Fear (as a 1st level spell), Chant, Silence 15' Radius, Animate Dead (In EE this spell summons Ghasts instead of crappy little skeletons), Protection From Fire, Holy Smite/Unholy Blight, Defensive Harmony, Free Action, Holy Power. This list is really just spells that are good For Xzar specifically, there are many more great cleric spells from 1-4.
Take a full Cleric instead. Get both 4th-5th level Mage spells AND 4th level Cleric spells. There's plenty of slots. Dual-classing Xzar is just wrong.
Compared to the few from 4th/5th level Arcane I feel this is far more of a bonus. 9th level wizards get Animate Dead too only TWO whole spell levels later than a cleric does. Getting Silence alone makes dual classing amazing, I don't know how many caster encounters have turned into easy mode from that 1 2nd level cleric spell.
Silence is good, but a single spell is not enough to base dual-classing around.
If you MUST dual class him you should do so in a way that wont rob you of all arcane spell casting. I'd suggest not taking Necromancer 8/Cleric 7... you might not like it in the long run.
Yes, yes, yes. I am aware of the mistake. I wasn't thinking it through.
Arcane casters aren't the end all be all of powerful characters in BG1. To say that not letting Xzar reach level 9 makes him FAR worse simply because he loses out on 2 levels of arcane spells is ludacris. As is saying that being able to cast one school of arcane spells (illusion) makes someone more versatile than 4 levels of spellcasting from another class... that would mean that Neera who can cast all schools of arcane magic in the game is far more versatile and therefore the more POWERFUL character when compared to Edwin who loses out on a school of magic. Are you high?
Illusion is a POWERFUL school. Mirror Image and Invisibility alone validate the school, and there's Improved Invisibility, Spook, and Shadow Door on top of it. About the only Illusion spells which are lackluster are Blindness and Reflected Image.
Thank you @GoodSteve for taking the words out of my mouth.
Also, why dual-class him to Thief? I dunno, maybe because Necromancer 7/Thief 8 is awesome? Only Imoen and Safana can do anything comparable to that, both being epic with their Thief 6/Mage 9 shenanigans.
You do realize there IS a difference between having *two* characters (a Necromancer 9 and Thief 10) and *one* character (a Necromancer 7/Thief 8) yes?
Sure. One is 1 out of 6, the other is 2 out of 6. Considering that Xzar comes saddled with one already, I really don't see the point in dual-classing him to a Thief.
While there are some good spells for levels 4 and 5 arcane I don't feel that they outweight level 1-4 cleric spell casting. Besides you can use scrolls and wands to duplicate and replace many of those spells. The Wand of Summoning for example can be purchased (a few also drop throughout the course of the game) and they are MUCH better than Summon Monster 2 and 3. Breach is very situational and not really needed for any of the mage battles I ran in to. Stoneskin is the biggest loss really but I wouldn't say it's not worth it to dual class for 1 spell.
You realize that Xzar as a Necro 6/Cleric 7 is better than a level 8 cleric right? Why would you ever take a full cleric over him? You want the what, 1 extra 4th level cleric spell instead of 3 spell levels of arcane casting? I thought arcane casting was the BEST IN THE GAME?!
So you think Illusion is mega-powerful because of Mirror Image, Invisibility, Improved Invisibility, Spook (this is the poor mans horror, c'mon this isn't ToB enemies will get owned by Horror still) and Shadow Door? Well, here's 1 5th level Divination spell that removes just about every one of those: Oracle. Guess what, Edwin can't cast it. Neera is sooo o.p. now!
The reason to dual class him to a thief is that you might not want/have room for Montaron and need a Thief. So, you use Xzar and in the process make him stronger than he was.
Dual-classing Xzar is wrong if you don't like strong characters or you don't want to admit he's more versatile than a single classed mage. I'll agree with you there.
Apart from charname, none of the mages can get specialisation. That means you do not get the 1/2 attack per round which slings sorely need. Imoen with a short bow fairs okay, but only just. Edwin and Xzar can use darts, but edwin has horrible dex, and xzar will never be deadly with them. Edwin may have enough nuke spells to make up for it, but only if you run a secondary mage for the utility spells.
Then consider that Yeslick is the only cleric that can get specialisation, and although he is a great character, he requires gear that Kagain also requires (and possibly fights with him?) making it difficult to use both Yeslick and Kagain togther. Kagain is not essential to a party, but if you play on core rules then he is the only character (other than charname) that you can guarentee will end up with lots of hitpoints.
So, if we take Edwin and Viconia, we end up with a mage win lots of great spells but a terrible thaco with darts (and useless with any other weapon type), and a cleric with good thaco, but who also must use darts, and can never specialise.
Using Xzar dualled to cleric would mean we only have to use a single character that is not specialised (in a weapon), and Xzar would have a larger selection of spells so he would spend less time attacking with his darts. Xzar also has decent dexterity and after dualling him you can use the dexterity buckler. He will also have more bonus divine spells that Viconia. The priest levels will end up giving him more hitpoints than Edwin, to go with his much better AC. This solid defense means he does not need illusuon spells.
As I see it, Xzar can do the job of Viconia and most of Edwin all in one character.
Using Xzar in place of Viconia also gives you the option of taking Kivan if you want to, although personally I think Kivan is a bit overrated. Xzar only fights with Khalid and Jaheira, and who wants them anyway?
While there are some good spells for levels 4 and 5 arcane I don't feel that they outweight level 1-4 cleric spell casting. Besides you can use scrolls and wands to duplicate and replace many of those spells. The Wand of Summoning for example can be purchased (a few also drop throughout the course of the game) and they are MUCH better than Summon Monster 2 and 3. Breach is very situational and not really needed for any of the mage battles I ran in to. Stoneskin is the biggest loss really but I wouldn't say it's not worth it to dual class for 1 spell.
Stoneskin is something you lose by dual-classing, and there is nothing you can do to make up for it, except for scrolls (which is ridiculously expensive).
You realize that Xzar as a Necro 6/Cleric 7 is better than a level 8 cleric right? Why would you ever take a full cleric over him? You want the what, 1 extra 4th level cleric spell instead of 3 spell levels of arcane casting? I thought arcane casting was the BEST IN THE GAME?!
You are not taking a Necro 6/Cleric 7 over a Cleric 8. You are taking a Necromancer 6/Cleric 7 and an unknown quantity over a Cleric 8 and a Necromancer 9. The only situation in which that makes logical sense is if the unknown quantity is a mage, but the analogy extends: it is better to have 2 9th level mages and a cleric 8 than to have 1 9th level mage, 1 Necromancer 6/Cleric 7, and an unknown quantity, unless the unknown quantity is a mage... and so on and so forth. So if you have Xan, Xzar, Edwin, Imoen, and Neera, then sure, it makes perfect sense to dual-class Xzar to a cleric.
Most parties don't go quite that heavy on the mage front, though.
So you think Illusion is mega-powerful because of Mirror Image, Invisibility, Improved Invisibility, Spook (this is the poor mans horror, c'mon this isn't ToB enemies will get owned by Horror still) and Shadow Door? Well, here's 1 5th level Divination spell that removes just about every one of those: Oracle. Guess what, Edwin can't cast it. Neera is sooo o.p. now!
That just means Edwin is less versatile if the enemy has Oracle. How many opponents cast Oracle?
The reason to dual class him to a thief is that you might not want/have room for Montaron and need a Thief. So, you use Xzar and in the process make him stronger than he was.
No, he really isn't stronger for it. He loses 5ths. How many times do I need to go over that?
Dual-classing Xzar is wrong if you don't like strong characters or you don't want to admit he's more versatile than a single classed wizard. I'll agree with you there.
No, it's just wrong. Dual-class TO mage, not FROM it.
While there are some good spells for levels 4 and 5 arcane I don't feel that they outweight level 1-4 cleric spell casting. Besides you can use scrolls and wands to duplicate and replace many of those spells. The Wand of Summoning for example can be purchased (a few also drop throughout the course of the game) and they are MUCH better than Summon Monster 2 and 3. Breach is very situational and not really needed for any of the mage battles I ran in to. Stoneskin is the biggest loss really but I wouldn't say it's not worth it to dual class for 1 spell.
Stoneskin is something you lose by dual-classing, and there is nothing you can do to make up for it, except for scrolls (which is ridiculously expensive).
You realize that Xzar as a Necro 6/Cleric 7 is better than a level 8 cleric right? Why would you ever take a full cleric over him? You want the what, 1 extra 4th level cleric spell instead of 3 spell levels of arcane casting? I thought arcane casting was the BEST IN THE GAME?!
You are not taking a Necro 6/Cleric 7 over a Cleric 8. You are taking a Necromancer 6/Cleric 7 and an unknown quantity over a Cleric 8 and a Necromancer 9. The only situation in which that makes logical sense is if the unknown quantity is a mage, but the analogy extends: it is better to have 2 9th level mages and a cleric 8 than to have 1 9th level mage, 1 6 Necromancer/Cleric 7, and an unknown quantity, unless the unknown quantity is a mage... and so on and so forth. So if you have Xan, Xzar, Edwin, Imoen, and Neera, then sure, it makes perfect sense to dual-class Xzar to a cleric.
Most parties don't go quite that heavy on the mage front, though.
What are you talking about? Seriously. I'm saying that a Necromancer 6/Cleric 7 is a better choice than a Cleric 8. Period. Not that a Necromancer 6/Cleric 7 is better than two characters. That man for man Xzar is a better choice over a single classed 8th level cleric. There is really no debating this.
Yes, Edwin is less versatile in that situation. As for how many enemy mages cast Oracle, I couldn't say. But you know who can cast all those spells you mentioned AND cast Oracle? Neera. So, she's obviously the best mage, right?
Yes he is stronger for it, losing 5ths isn't worse than everything he gains. How many times do I have to go over that? Basically your opinion is that being able to cast 2-3 5th level spells per day is better than 7 levels of cleric or 8 levels of thief, right? I disagree and I'm sure all the 7th level clerics and 8th level thieves would disagree aswell.
Dual-Class FROM mage, this is BG1, bro. It's not like he's charname that will be exported to BG2 or anything.
Edit: As for scrolls being rediculously expensive, I finished the game with like 250,000 gold sitting in my bag. I think you can afford to buy Xzar a couple scrolls here and there.
While there are some good spells for levels 4 and 5 arcane I don't feel that they outweight level 1-4 cleric spell casting. Besides you can use scrolls and wands to duplicate and replace many of those spells. The Wand of Summoning for example can be purchased (a few also drop throughout the course of the game) and they are MUCH better than Summon Monster 2 and 3. Breach is very situational and not really needed for any of the mage battles I ran in to. Stoneskin is the biggest loss really but I wouldn't say it's not worth it to dual class for 1 spell.
Stoneskin is something you lose by dual-classing, and there is nothing you can do to make up for it, except for scrolls (which is ridiculously expensive).
You realize that Xzar as a Necro 6/Cleric 7 is better than a level 8 cleric right? Why would you ever take a full cleric over him? You want the what, 1 extra 4th level cleric spell instead of 3 spell levels of arcane casting? I thought arcane casting was the BEST IN THE GAME?!
You are not taking a Necro 6/Cleric 7 over a Cleric 8. You are taking a Necromancer 6/Cleric 7 and an unknown quantity over a Cleric 8 and a Necromancer 9. The only situation in which that makes logical sense is if the unknown quantity is a mage, but the analogy extends: it is better to have 2 9th level mages and a cleric 8 than to have 1 9th level mage, 1 6 Necromancer/Cleric 7, and an unknown quantity, unless the unknown quantity is a mage... and so on and so forth. So if you have Xan, Xzar, Edwin, Imoen, and Neera, then sure, it makes perfect sense to dual-class Xzar to a cleric.
Most parties don't go quite that heavy on the mage front, though.
What are you talking about? Seriously. I'm saying that a Necromancer 6/Cleric 7 is a better choice than a Cleric 8. Period. Not that a Necromancer 6/Cleric 7 is better than two characters. That man for man Xzar is a better choice over a single classed 8th level cleric. There is really no debating this.
By dual-classing, you are choosing not to have a 9th level Xzar. You cannot just compare a Necromancer 6/Cleric 7 against a Cleric 8 without realizing that you are giving up his 4th and 5th level Mage spells. You have to compare the Cleric 8 along with the Necromancer 9 against the Necromancer 6/Cleric 7 and another character (to off-set the Cleric 8) to get an accurate view of the situation.
Xzar is better as Necromancer 9 than he would be as a Necromancer 6/Cleric 7, UNLESS every other character in your party is already a mage!
Yes, Edwin is less versatile in that situation. As for how many enemy mages cast Oracle, I couldn't say. But you know who can cast all those spells you mentioned AND cast Oracle? Neera. So, she's obviously the best mage, right?
Neera has wild mage drawbacks, which are fun, but do not make for a "good" character. Edwin is the best mage because he has the weakest school as his barred school. A specialized mage is better than a non-specialized mage because they can cast one more spell of each level (unless the specialization locks out too many good schools). Edwin simply has the best specialization. (Wild mage also gets the additional spells/level, but the drawbacks make it worse than even the worst specialist.)
Yes he is stronger for it, losing 5ths isn't worse than everything he gains. How many times do I have to go over that? Basically your opinion is that being able to cast 2-3 5th level spells per day is better than 7 levels of cleric or 8 levels of thief, right? I disagree and I'm sure all the 7th level clerics and 8th level thieves would disagree aswell.
A Mage 9 can run circles around those clerics and thieves. Even if they work together. (Even if they both are dual-classed Necromancers.)
Dual-Class FROM mage, this is BG1, bro. It's not like he's charname that will be exported to BG2 or anything.
What is your point?
Unless you wait to dual-class until you have more than 25,000 XP, you can easily start out as a different class and still hit 9th level as a Mage. 9th level mages = most powerful characters available in BG1.
Imoen and Safana make great Thief/Mages, for example (though Safana needs the Int book to qualify).
Edit: As for scrolls being rediculously expensive, I finished the game with like 250,000 gold sitting in my bag. I think you can afford to buy Xzar a couple scrolls here and there.
This is anecdotal, which basically means it is not proof. Unless you can demonstrably prove that the average player will have enough gold to waste on scrolls, it is about as useful as saying you can just use the CLUAConsole to spawn them.
I think making Xzar a cleric is a good idea only because in all the times I finished this game before I don't think I ever got to level 9 with any character (maybe a thief). And I really don't think that many ppl will finish this game with a group of level 9 characters. So for a normal group to have a mage / cleric with stats like Xzar have its quite awesome. And as much as those 5th level spells are powerful you don't really need them to finish the game. If I learned anything about BG1, because of the low levels (unlike BG2) versatility is always better. This is why Edwin is better then Xzar when its Mage vs. Mage. But when Xzar have cleric levels, then Edwin loses because now Xzar have more spells, and can use more items.
Quayle is amazing simply because he's an Illusionist/Cleric. I agree if they had another multiclass mage/cleric it'd make my day.
Nah. He has to be the only mage/cleric otherwise no one would ever pick him up; the whole purpose of Quayle and Yeslick is that they have two good stats, every other stat sucks, but they are still totally worthwhile because they have such a good multi-class (and innate ability).
Except Yeslick's stats DON'T suck. He has good con, str and is tied for highest wisdom at 16 with Branwen (unless Vicci has he BG2 stats.) He also has the best innate ability in the game: A free dispel Magic. You will probably need it!
Quayle is amazing simply because he's an Illusionist/Cleric. I agree if they had another multiclass mage/cleric it'd make my day.
Nah. He has to be the only mage/cleric otherwise no one would ever pick him up; the whole purpose of Quayle and Yeslick is that they have two good stats, every other stat sucks, but they are still totally worthwhile because they have such a good multi-class (and innate ability).
Except Yeslick's stats DON'T suck. He has good con, str and is tied for highest wisdom at 16 with Branwen (unless Vicci has he BG2 stats.) He also has the best innate ability in the game: A free dispel Magic. You will probably need it!
I said two good stats and bad everything else. Good Wisdom and Constitution. His Strength I don't consider good because while it's passable enough to equip heavy armor he gets zero strength bonus to his attacks. Aaaaand I also said he has a good Innate Ability alongside having a great class. I'm pretty much repeating myself you probably should've just read my post more carefully. I think Yeslick is awesome don't mark me a hater.
You know, unlike @IDanielHolm. Who apparently loaths Xzar with every fiber of his being, because he doesn't understand the intricacies and fun of dual-classing a character. Only blasting everything to shit is cool in his books, apparently.
This thread has inspired me to try a playthrough with Xzar as the only healer. It would let him use the dex buckler also, for extra darting.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you dual Xzar to cleric he should be unable to use darts per cleric weapon restrictions. Could still use a sling, though.
You know, unlike @IDanielHolm. Who apparently loaths Xzar with every fiber of his being, because he doesn't understand the intricacies and fun of dual-classing a character. Only blasting everything to shit is cool in his books, apparently.
Red Wizards of Thay are essentially super specialists. They focus even harder on a school of magic than even a typical specialized wizard, gaining an extra spell per day of their chosen school but at the cost of having to sacrifice another school of spells. Edwin gets the extra spells per day without the drawbacks of it in the PnP world, but then again he doesn't gain a bonus to the power of his conjuration spells as he should so I guess it's not as broken as that might seem.
She will already be getting a lot better, buff or no buff. Wild Mages become ridiculously powerful at higher levels. She's a bit like Rasaad in BG1, in that both of them are at their most useless at early levels, but will be among the strongest NPCs by the time you get to ToB content.
What exactly are the benefits of a high level wild mage?
Quayle is amazing simply because he's an Illusionist/Cleric. I agree if they had another multiclass mage/cleric it'd make my day.
Nah. He has to be the only mage/cleric otherwise no one would ever pick him up; the whole purpose of Quayle and Yeslick is that they have two good stats, every other stat sucks, but they are still totally worthwhile because they have such a good multi-class (and innate ability).
Except Yeslick's stats DON'T suck. He has good con, str and is tied for highest wisdom at 16 with Branwen (unless Vicci has he BG2 stats.) He also has the best innate ability in the game: A free dispel Magic. You will probably need it!
I said two good stats and bad everything else. Good Wisdom and Constitution. His Strength I don't consider good because while it's passable enough to equip heavy armor he gets zero strength bonus to his attacks. Aaaaand I also said he has a good Innate Ability alongside having a great class. I'm pretty much repeating myself you probably should've just read my post more carefully. I think Yeslick is awesome don't mark me a hater.
You know, unlike @IDanielHolm. Who apparently loaths Xzar with every fiber of his being, because he doesn't understand the intricacies and fun of dual-classing a character. Only blasting everything to shit is cool in his books, apparently.
Too bad for you that a cursed belt with 19 strength exists now ...
Give him the dex gloves for his armor and he is the best multi classed fighting npc ever
Not sure if this was allready said but: 1. The beard 2. The eyes 3. The voice 4. If I look at earlier post from you I suppose you are a straight male, so you won't give a f*ck about 1, 2 and 3. 5. Lots and lots and lots of spells.
But he also has one huge disadvantige, he can't learn the Indentification spell.
As a straight male, I have to say that 1-3 are completely valid reasons for taking Edwin.
Quayle is amazing simply because he's an Illusionist/Cleric. I agree if they had another multiclass mage/cleric it'd make my day.
Nah. He has to be the only mage/cleric otherwise no one would ever pick him up; the whole purpose of Quayle and Yeslick is that they have two good stats, every other stat sucks, but they are still totally worthwhile because they have such a good multi-class (and innate ability).
Except Yeslick's stats DON'T suck. He has good con, str and is tied for highest wisdom at 16 with Branwen (unless Vicci has he BG2 stats.) He also has the best innate ability in the game: A free dispel Magic. You will probably need it!
I said two good stats and bad everything else. Good Wisdom and Constitution. His Strength I don't consider good because while it's passable enough to equip heavy armor he gets zero strength bonus to his attacks. Aaaaand I also said he has a good Innate Ability alongside having a great class. I'm pretty much repeating myself you probably should've just read my post more carefully. I think Yeslick is awesome don't mark me a hater.
You know, unlike @IDanielHolm. Who apparently loaths Xzar with every fiber of his being, because he doesn't understand the intricacies and fun of dual-classing a character. Only blasting everything to shit is cool in his books, apparently.
Too bad for you that a cursed belt with 19 strength exists now ...
Give him the dex gloves for his armor and he is the best multi classed fighting npc ever
@Aasimar069 How is that "too bad for me"? I said that I LIKE Yeslick, and if you looked in other threads I pointed out what you just did; that now, with said belt and the Gauntlets of Dexterity, Yeslick is a total BOSS with the right equipment. I am talking about his DEFAULT character, and I already said his DEFAULT character is good enough, and can be made awesome. I have said absolutely NOWHERE that I dislike Yeslick. Where are you people getting this?
You know, unlike @IDanielHolm. Who apparently loaths Xzar with every fiber of his being, because he doesn't understand the intricacies and fun of dual-classing a character. Only blasting everything to shit is cool in his books, apparently.
Strawman much?
Haha. I don't care, the argument turned to crap long ago, your logic this entire thread has been "I personally don't like doing that with Xzar, so it's not a good tactic."
Why even waste the belt on Yeslick when he can use DUHM, thereby saving the belt for someone who needs the strength more, such as one of the Harpers... both of whom have the same strength as Yeslick.
I think that the conclusion of this post is that Edwin is a better mage while Xzar have more options. So if you like to dual your characters then go with Xzar, if you need a good mage go with Edwin. No one can tell you which one of them is more fun as a character though. This you will have to test by yourself.
Comments
Stoneskin, Greater Malison, Summon Monster II and III, Improved Invisibility (not that he can cast it...), Cloudkill, Hold Monster, Cone of Cold, Protection from Normal Weapons, Breach, ... I could go on. Take a full Cleric instead. Get both 4th-5th level Mage spells AND 4th level Cleric spells. There's plenty of slots. Dual-classing Xzar is just wrong. Silence is good, but a single spell is not enough to base dual-classing around. Yes, yes, yes. I am aware of the mistake. I wasn't thinking it through. Illusion is a POWERFUL school. Mirror Image and Invisibility alone validate the school, and there's Improved Invisibility, Spook, and Shadow Door on top of it. About the only Illusion spells which are lackluster are Blindness and Reflected Image.
Divination is NOT. Sure. One is 1 out of 6, the other is 2 out of 6. Considering that Xzar comes saddled with one already, I really don't see the point in dual-classing him to a Thief.
While there are some good spells for levels 4 and 5 arcane I don't feel that they outweight level 1-4 cleric spell casting. Besides you can use scrolls and wands to duplicate and replace many of those spells. The Wand of Summoning for example can be purchased (a few also drop throughout the course of the game) and they are MUCH better than Summon Monster 2 and 3. Breach is very situational and not really needed for any of the mage battles I ran in to. Stoneskin is the biggest loss really but I wouldn't say it's not worth it to dual class for 1 spell.
You realize that Xzar as a Necro 6/Cleric 7 is better than a level 8 cleric right? Why would you ever take a full cleric over him? You want the what, 1 extra 4th level cleric spell instead of 3 spell levels of arcane casting? I thought arcane casting was the BEST IN THE GAME?!
So you think Illusion is mega-powerful because of Mirror Image, Invisibility, Improved Invisibility, Spook (this is the poor mans horror, c'mon this isn't ToB enemies will get owned by Horror still) and Shadow Door? Well, here's 1 5th level Divination spell that removes just about every one of those: Oracle. Guess what, Edwin can't cast it. Neera is sooo o.p. now!
The reason to dual class him to a thief is that you might not want/have room for Montaron and need a Thief. So, you use Xzar and in the process make him stronger than he was.
Dual-classing Xzar is wrong if you don't like strong characters or you don't want to admit he's more versatile than a single classed mage. I'll agree with you there.
Apart from charname, none of the mages can get specialisation. That means you do not get the 1/2 attack per round which slings sorely need. Imoen with a short bow fairs okay, but only just. Edwin and Xzar can use darts, but edwin has horrible dex, and xzar will never be deadly with them. Edwin may have enough nuke spells to make up for it, but only if you run a secondary mage for the utility spells.
Then consider that Yeslick is the only cleric that can get specialisation, and although he is a great character, he requires gear that Kagain also requires (and possibly fights with him?) making it difficult to use both Yeslick and Kagain togther. Kagain is not essential to a party, but if you play on core rules then he is the only character (other than charname) that you can guarentee will end up with lots of hitpoints.
So, if we take Edwin and Viconia, we end up with a mage win lots of great spells but a terrible thaco with darts (and useless with any other weapon type), and a cleric with good thaco, but who also must use darts, and can never specialise.
Using Xzar dualled to cleric would mean we only have to use a single character that is not specialised (in a weapon), and Xzar would have a larger selection of spells so he would spend less time attacking with his darts. Xzar also has decent dexterity and after dualling him you can use the dexterity buckler. He will also have more bonus divine spells that Viconia. The priest levels will end up giving him more hitpoints than Edwin, to go with his much better AC. This solid defense means he does not need illusuon spells.
As I see it, Xzar can do the job of Viconia and most of Edwin all in one character.
Using Xzar in place of Viconia also gives you the option of taking Kivan if you want to, although personally I think Kivan is a bit overrated. Xzar only fights with Khalid and Jaheira, and who wants them anyway?
Most parties don't go quite that heavy on the mage front, though. That just means Edwin is less versatile if the enemy has Oracle. How many opponents cast Oracle? No, he really isn't stronger for it. He loses 5ths. How many times do I need to go over that? No, it's just wrong. Dual-class TO mage, not FROM it.
Yes, Edwin is less versatile in that situation. As for how many enemy mages cast Oracle, I couldn't say. But you know who can cast all those spells you mentioned AND cast Oracle? Neera. So, she's obviously the best mage, right?
Yes he is stronger for it, losing 5ths isn't worse than everything he gains. How many times do I have to go over that? Basically your opinion is that being able to cast 2-3 5th level spells per day is better than 7 levels of cleric or 8 levels of thief, right? I disagree and I'm sure all the 7th level clerics and 8th level thieves would disagree aswell.
Dual-Class FROM mage, this is BG1, bro. It's not like he's charname that will be exported to BG2 or anything.
Edit: As for scrolls being rediculously expensive, I finished the game with like 250,000 gold sitting in my bag. I think you can afford to buy Xzar a couple scrolls here and there.
Xzar is better as Necromancer 9 than he would be as a Necromancer 6/Cleric 7, UNLESS every other character in your party is already a mage!
Dual-classing a Mage is not. worth. it. Neera has wild mage drawbacks, which are fun, but do not make for a "good" character. Edwin is the best mage because he has the weakest school as his barred school. A specialized mage is better than a non-specialized mage because they can cast one more spell of each level (unless the specialization locks out too many good schools). Edwin simply has the best specialization. (Wild mage also gets the additional spells/level, but the drawbacks make it worse than even the worst specialist.) A Mage 9 can run circles around those clerics and thieves. Even if they work together. (Even if they both are dual-classed Necromancers.) What is your point?
Unless you wait to dual-class until you have more than 25,000 XP, you can easily start out as a different class and still hit 9th level as a Mage. 9th level mages = most powerful characters available in BG1.
Imoen and Safana make great Thief/Mages, for example (though Safana needs the Int book to qualify). This is anecdotal, which basically means it is not proof. Unless you can demonstrably prove that the average player will have enough gold to waste on scrolls, it is about as useful as saying you can just use the CLUAConsole to spawn them.
You know, unlike @IDanielHolm. Who apparently loaths Xzar with every fiber of his being, because he doesn't understand the intricacies and fun of dual-classing a character. Only blasting everything to shit is cool in his books, apparently.
Red Wizards of Thay are essentially super specialists. They focus even harder on a school of magic than even a typical specialized wizard, gaining an extra spell per day of their chosen school but at the cost of having to sacrifice another school of spells. Edwin gets the extra spells per day without the drawbacks of it in the PnP world, but then again he doesn't gain a bonus to the power of his conjuration spells as he should so I guess it's not as broken as that might seem.
But Xzar got all the best NPC's quotes. He's absolutely hilarious!
Give him the dex gloves for his armor and he is the best multi classed fighting npc ever
Maybe I should reassess the 'straight'...
Why even waste the belt on Yeslick when he can use DUHM, thereby saving the belt for someone who needs the strength more, such as one of the Harpers... both of whom have the same strength as Yeslick.
Because DUHM still improves his str after the belt. Letting him possibly achieve a 21 Str.