Suffice to say, Saerileth's makers have disallowed talk of Saerileth's age on their forum and they have a thread called reviews but they never include any bad reviews.
They want to be praised, but they mostly want people to tell them what they did right!
So no, this isn't bad it's good stuff, it's bad because if it had a chance to breathe I could enjoy its badness, but I can't.
Well for the forum thing that looks like it was moved to teambg, where I see both negative and positive reviews.
As for their website only having praises. Yea, this is sort of like how books have "reviews" on the back of them that are all positive. I really don't see the big deal, since anyone with google can search for reviews of the mod. Its more of a marketing strategy than anything. Its also no different than the comments provided on the Valen mod page
But even on the topic of not allowing bad comments. The last update for this mod was I think in 2006 (at least concerning content). Maybe a bit later than that. Anyways its pretty clear that the mods creators aren't interested in changing it and its been a very long time since its been released. So I don't see the big deal about them not accepting bad reviews (heck from what I can tell they aren't even accepting good reviews anymore either).
There are a lot of things that surprise me about how the modding scene has unfolded over the past 12 years, but the ongoing strong opposition to Chloe and Saerileth surprise me. Not because I think they're any good, but because I'm a little surprised people keep finding them, since they've been disregarded by their authors for so long.
Saerileth, I understand, has become "a thing" with the ultra-detailed LP and so forth surrounding her, but Chloe has been unloved and unpromoted for probably a decade. How are enough people even finding her these days? Is it mostly people doing mod auto-installs and not reading up on what they're getting into?
(and, sorry, but I like being thorough about this stuff.)
I don't recall Kelsey making my decisions. The only decision i remember the mod made for me was that it forced me to become pregnant.
I think you're misremembering something. The PC is only pregnant in the Kelsey romance if you press the reply that tells him she is. I did have to go back and check, but we even addressed this in the FAQ:
Q: I don't want my PC to be pregnant! A: Then simply don't TELL him that you're pregnant. Unlike real life, if you don't say it, it won't be true.
(However, I do believe that there are a very small handful of interjects in which Kelsey pre-empts the PC, and I seem to recall agonizing about them before committing. It's a fine line between giving a character an authentic voice and taking control of the game away from the leader/protagonist/player.)
Those two are so bad they shouldn't be downloaded AT ALL.
But out of the ones that are pretty bad but not so bad that you feel dumber just for the act of downloading the mod, I'd agree on Solaufein.
1. Completely changes his class and stats
2. Completely changes his personality
3. His encounters are a little too Mary-sue-ish
All in all, a terrible mod. A good idea, but poor in execution, and the sheer amount of difference to In-game Sola, and mod-sola is about the same difference as in-game Minsc and novel-Minsc. I.e...they share a name and common race.
As insane as it is to dwell on Saerileth, I feel it's an important thing to never forget.
Think of the Twilight novels. Anyone who takes the story to heart could be hurting themselves in their future relationships and think that it's the right way to write. It's not.
The same is true here. Saerileth is practically a Guide with the titles "how not to make a character."
It should be remembered much like how Adam Sandler movies are remembered: as travesties to be unrepeated.
Well, Chloe was my first NPC mod I've played and ... II LOVE IT :PPPPPPPPPPPPP Haters gona hate xD
Chloe was one of my first too, and at first, I didn't hate it, but I had also played Kelsey... and Tashia I think was the other NPC. Felt Sola was a bit misplaced and when I saw his sword with DUHM, AoF, and a ton of buffs, I didn't take it seriously. Chloe... felt overloaded.
That is, of course, when her introductory cutscene worked right, because it sometimes didn't.
I'd love to hear a detailed eulogy, let's call it, on what Chloe does right, because as one who wants to make a few characters, I want to understand the appeal beyond 'lesbians!'
I didn't play either, I am not the biggest fan of ONPC mods. I only tried Breagar and Nephele, and only because I wanted to have and all short people party in BG2.
Usually I just play NPC expansion mods, which also vary a lot in quality and tone. I have yet to find one I am 100%, or at least 90%, satisfied with. Though the Ajantis mod was really cute and I think the most in-character of all the mods I played.
PS: I don't think I can really pick a worst one, because many of these are a matter of taste. If we go by that, I found the Solaufein mod rather jarring. It was so ... cheesy. Kivan of Shilmista was rather annoying as well.
I apologize for Necro'ing this thread, but there was something I need to set straight.
I've seen some folks comment on the quality of Saerilith's writing, calling it good and such.
I want to you understand where I'm coming from on what is going to be said. I'm a veteran writer of many years. I've published poems, magazine articles, short stories, and so on. I've given critiques to numerous other authors and writers, most of which has been accepted with great zeal. Now that I've laid that out, let me just say this:
I've read sh*tty Twilight fanfics which qualify as more of a love story next to Saerilith's story with .
I bought BG2:EE out of a sense of nostalgia and because I was excited for the enhancements (I was not disappointed. Thank you Beamdog). After completing the game once or three times, I decided to fool around with a few mods for the hell of it. I came across Saerilith on the recommendation of a few posts across various boards, so thought "sure, why not?"
Four hours in my game play, I came to regret that decision.
The age thing legitimately does not bother me as the Age of Consent is different from country to country. I swallowed the creepiness factor due to being in the US and continued on with my adventure. Excuse me. Saeri's adventure.
It might surprise you to learn this, but Saerilith isn't really an NPC Mod for Baldur's Gate 2. It's malware.
At the very least, it's acts very much like malware. This "mod" hijacks your game, railroads you into certain situations that you cannot avoid, forces you to play on its' terms, pops up at the most annoying times, and otherwise has no real redeeming value other than to make your life miserable. Sounds lot like most viruses out in the wild, right?
In any case, a good love story is supposed to draw you in. As such, it needs identifiable characters, a good conflict or situation to work against those characters, and a goal to accomplish at the end of the journey. Most of that will be taken care of by the game itself. You had better identify with or else why are you playing it? The conflict(s) and goals should be pretty obvious as well.
Now, most of the original NPCs for Baldur's Gate 2 were memorable in their own right. At the very least, everyone who's played the game will remember Minsc (and Boo!) for a long, long time. Personally, I have a fancrush on Jaheira and Viconia. There's been better romances, of course. But at the time, those were good stories. Lots of action, a good understanding of the characters, and a real drive to reach the goal. I didn't think much of Aerie, but that's besides the point.
Now, enter Saeri.
Not only does this... NPC (and I'm being very loose here) guide your character for you, she will take several critical choices for you. Why? Because that's what she does. She has no flaws, no real purpose and no real issues. She immediately falls in love your char at the first real dialogue point as she's "swooned" by beauty. Really?
It gets much, much worse. After enduring hours of grating voice acting, bad dialogue choices, and being forced into Saerilith's story, I checked into see if maybe I had legitimately downloaded a virus or a joke program. Despite being assured this was, in fact, a mod of some sort, my own experience overrode those voices of experience. Indeed, this is a piece of malware cleverly disguised as an unofficial gaming enhancement.
At some (or several points), she can die of a broken heart. I actually used the console to advance the game as much as I could to witness this. Indeed! After a fit of maniacal laughter and letting go of my loathing hatred for this virus that infected my game, I promptly wiped the game, cleared the mod/virus off my PC, and did a clean install. Thank Tyr for back-ups!
Aside from this being a disaster of a mod in a general sense, just please don't call this a "good story". There is no story here. It's a badly written piece of tripe that really needs a heavy revision before it could *even* be called a rough draft.
Aside from this being a disaster of a mod in a general sense, just please don't call this a "good story". There is no story here. It's a badly written piece of tripe that really needs a heavy revision before it could *even* be called a rough draft.
I feel like this might be a stylistic thing, but you had a lot of good points until you put emphasis on the word "even" as though that had any meaning. Are you really in a position to critique if you put emphasis on words which do not make sense to like a bad comic book? Given that you claim your opinion has weight because you're a veteran writer, it rather detracts from your post to make such an awkward choice.
I feel like this might be a stylistic thing, but you had a lot of good points until you put emphasis on the word "even" as though that had any meaning. Are you really in a position to critique if you put emphasis on words which do not make sense to like a bad comic book? Given that you claim your opinion has weight because you're a veteran writer, it rather detracts from your post to make such an awkward choice.
Touché!
In any circumstance, it was merely a venting session. Hours of a fruitless endeavor followed by maniacal torturing of the object of loathing may have effect. The mod in question needs to have a warning label about certain side effects. It is, quite literally, so bad that it might induce severe irritability, mania, and homicidal thoughts.
@TheStormofWar No question as to the quality, or lack thereof, of Saerileth. I haven't installed that mod, but all the screenshots look terrible. I haven't really seen much at all of Chloe, though I nearly installed it a few times to add some variety, so I have no opinion there. I have heard that Chloe has class-specific dialogue, though, which sounds neat.
But, yeah, just thought I'd cheekily take a bit of the wind out of your sails. As an aspiring writer myself, your post's preface prompted much chest-beating and the desire to assert dominance. No harm no foul.
If you thought Saerware was a Mary Sue, Chloegg is the daughter of a wind god and a smooth lesbian who's neither painted as either wrong or quiet... have fun.
Haha, I just read the entire thread. Is Saerileth really that bad? To me it sounds like it's so bad, that it's almost good in a hillarious way, especially if they really dismiss any kind of criticism (and from a bit of googling it seems that the mod is either criticized and mocked pretty much everywhere).
I kinda ignored all the NPC mods back in my 2005 (and onwards) BG2 days, so I was not even aware of this.
And I am also wondering what do creators actually think of this backlash. Who knows, maybe he/she would die of a heartbreak as well after seeing this thread.
@Dazzu Lesbians are supposed to be quiet? ::Does Spock Eyebrow thing.::
I suspect Dazzu would say that any supporting cast NPCs aren't supposed to get too loud. The Mary Sue reference suggests dominating volume. Given that she is the daughter of a Goddess and her weapons are unique to her and directly granted by two different gods, that would certainly be a worry for me.
I still haven't played the Chloe mod so I can't give any $.02 on it. I remain impressed by the implementation of the Saerileth mod (Sigil in BG is great) but turned off by the poor writing / Mary Sue aspects of it.
@Dazzu Lesbians are supposed to be quiet? ::Does Spock Eyebrow thing.::
No, but like any party member, they shouldn't interject themselves in every conversation in every way possible. This isn't a problem that any sexuality/gender/etc is guilty of, mind you, but is a severe consequence of bad writing.
If you want a well written lesbian relation, try Isra with a female lead (the goodly and charisma requirement does bug me, but she's a better Cavalier in every way than Saerileth.)
Actually, Chloe, as a lesbian bugs me, no, as a character. See, I love lesbians, but when porn preludes to the sex are better setup than the 'romance' here then I'll call it what it is, titillation.
She's pretty much a female playboy who hits on all your female party members.
It undoubtedly was. And I appreciate its implementation in BG like I appreciated the BG recreation in NWN2. PST has numerous setting worth revisiting, IMO.
I don't really remember but according to my game log "Saerileth: Romance is too forced for lack of a better word but on the plus side does have a pure quality the other romances lack." Atleast that's what I wrote at the time. "Started ToB today Saerileth glitched, I fixed the glitch but now she gives me the you have become evil so I have to leave now dialog... that's odd since my alignment is still good and my rep is too... I'll try out Fade for now" "I loaded up ToB again and noticed Sir Anomen was missing he apparently got left in hell or something..." "Saerileth has started destroying some of my weapons, this is a annoyance. Apparently she ignored them before because they had been in my bag of holding" That pretty much all I wrote back then so it seems I never noticed the whole do this or I'll die thing I assume because I was NG and did good just for goodness sake.
my notes on Chloe seem to be missing but I apparently made a lot of comparisons between her and Nathaniel with him in a far more favorable light.
It's a bit idiot the fact Saerileth can utterly destroy ancient artifacts, not even chosen ones of deities can simply walk around destroying tons of artifacts. It's like: "hmmm, soul reaver? done. Armor of human skin? Done. Ring of Gaax? Done." (this is just examples).
Comments
As for their website only having praises. Yea, this is sort of like how books have "reviews" on the back of them that are all positive. I really don't see the big deal, since anyone with google can search for reviews of the mod. Its more of a marketing strategy than anything. Its also no different than the comments provided on the Valen mod page
http://weidu.org/valen.html
But even on the topic of not allowing bad comments. The last update for this mod was I think in 2006 (at least concerning content). Maybe a bit later than that. Anyways its pretty clear that the mods creators aren't interested in changing it and its been a very long time since its been released. So I don't see the big deal about them not accepting bad reviews (heck from what I can tell they aren't even accepting good reviews anymore either).
Saerileth, I understand, has become "a thing" with the ultra-detailed LP and so forth surrounding her, but Chloe has been unloved and unpromoted for probably a decade. How are enough people even finding her these days? Is it mostly people doing mod auto-installs and not reading up on what they're getting into?
(and, sorry, but I like being thorough about this stuff.) I think you're misremembering something. The PC is only pregnant in the Kelsey romance if you press the reply that tells him she is. I did have to go back and check, but we even addressed this in the FAQ:
Q: I don't want my PC to be pregnant!
A: Then simply don't TELL him that you're pregnant. Unlike real life, if you don't say it, it won't be true.
(However, I do believe that there are a very small handful of interjects in which Kelsey pre-empts the PC, and I seem to recall agonizing about them before committing. It's a fine line between giving a character an authentic voice and taking control of the game away from the leader/protagonist/player.)
But out of the ones that are pretty bad but not so bad that you feel dumber just for the act of downloading the mod, I'd agree on Solaufein.
1. Completely changes his class and stats
2. Completely changes his personality
3. His encounters are a little too Mary-sue-ish
All in all, a terrible mod. A good idea, but poor in execution, and the sheer amount of difference to In-game Sola, and mod-sola is about the same difference as in-game Minsc and novel-Minsc. I.e...they share a name and common race.
Think of the Twilight novels. Anyone who takes the story to heart could be hurting themselves in their future relationships and think that it's the right way to write. It's not.
The same is true here. Saerileth is practically a Guide with the titles "how not to make a character."
It should be remembered much like how Adam Sandler movies are remembered: as travesties to be unrepeated.
History will repeat itself if we forget it.
That is, of course, when her introductory cutscene worked right, because it sometimes didn't.
I'd love to hear a detailed eulogy, let's call it, on what Chloe does right, because as one who wants to make a few characters, I want to understand the appeal beyond 'lesbians!'
I only tried Breagar and Nephele, and only because I wanted to have and all short people party in BG2.
Usually I just play NPC expansion mods, which also vary a lot in quality and tone.
I have yet to find one I am 100%, or at least 90%, satisfied with.
Though the Ajantis mod was really cute and I think the most in-character of all the mods I played.
PS: I don't think I can really pick a worst one, because many of these are a matter of taste. If we go by that, I found the Solaufein mod rather jarring. It was so ... cheesy. Kivan of Shilmista was rather annoying as well.
I've seen some folks comment on the quality of Saerilith's writing, calling it good and such.
I want to you understand where I'm coming from on what is going to be said. I'm a veteran writer of many years. I've published poems, magazine articles, short stories, and so on. I've given critiques to numerous other authors and writers, most of which has been accepted with great zeal. Now that I've laid that out, let me just say this:
I've read sh*tty Twilight fanfics which qualify as more of a love story next to Saerilith's story with .
I bought BG2:EE out of a sense of nostalgia and because I was excited for the enhancements (I was not disappointed. Thank you Beamdog). After completing the game once or three times, I decided to fool around with a few mods for the hell of it. I came across Saerilith on the recommendation of a few posts across various boards, so thought "sure, why not?"
Four hours in my game play, I came to regret that decision.
The age thing legitimately does not bother me as the Age of Consent is different from country to country. I swallowed the creepiness factor due to being in the US and continued on with my adventure. Excuse me. Saeri's adventure.
It might surprise you to learn this, but Saerilith isn't really an NPC Mod for Baldur's Gate 2. It's malware.
At the very least, it's acts very much like malware. This "mod" hijacks your game, railroads you into certain situations that you cannot avoid, forces you to play on its' terms, pops up at the most annoying times, and otherwise has no real redeeming value other than to make your life miserable. Sounds lot like most viruses out in the wild, right?
In any case, a good love story is supposed to draw you in. As such, it needs identifiable characters, a good conflict or situation to work against those characters, and a goal to accomplish at the end of the journey. Most of that will be taken care of by the game itself. You had better identify with or else why are you playing it? The conflict(s) and goals should be pretty obvious as well.
Now, most of the original NPCs for Baldur's Gate 2 were memorable in their own right. At the very least, everyone who's played the game will remember Minsc (and Boo!) for a long, long time. Personally, I have a fancrush on Jaheira and Viconia. There's been better romances, of course. But at the time, those were good stories. Lots of action, a good understanding of the characters, and a real drive to reach the goal. I didn't think much of Aerie, but that's besides the point.
Now, enter Saeri.
Not only does this... NPC (and I'm being very loose here) guide your character for you, she will take several critical choices for you. Why? Because that's what she does. She has no flaws, no real purpose and no real issues. She immediately falls in love your char at the first real dialogue point as she's "swooned" by beauty. Really?
It gets much, much worse. After enduring hours of grating voice acting, bad dialogue choices, and being forced into Saerilith's story, I checked into see if maybe I had legitimately downloaded a virus or a joke program. Despite being assured this was, in fact, a mod of some sort, my own experience overrode those voices of experience. Indeed, this is a piece of malware cleverly disguised as an unofficial gaming enhancement.
At some (or several points), she can die of a broken heart. I actually used the console to advance the game as much as I could to witness this. Indeed! After a fit of maniacal laughter and letting go of my loathing hatred for this virus that infected my game, I promptly wiped the game, cleared the mod/virus off my PC, and did a clean install. Thank Tyr for back-ups!
Aside from this being a disaster of a mod in a general sense, just please don't call this a "good story". There is no story here. It's a badly written piece of tripe that really needs a heavy revision before it could *even* be called a rough draft.
In any circumstance, it was merely a venting session. Hours of a fruitless endeavor followed by maniacal torturing of the object of loathing may have effect. The mod in question needs to have a warning label about certain side effects. It is, quite literally, so bad that it might induce severe irritability, mania, and homicidal thoughts.
No question as to the quality, or lack thereof, of Saerileth. I haven't installed that mod, but all the screenshots look terrible. I haven't really seen much at all of Chloe, though I nearly installed it a few times to add some variety, so I have no opinion there. I have heard that Chloe has class-specific dialogue, though, which sounds neat.
But, yeah, just thought I'd cheekily take a bit of the wind out of your sails. As an aspiring writer myself, your post's preface prompted much chest-beating and the desire to assert dominance. No harm no foul.
Also, agreed. No harm, no foul. Just keep focused, aspire to always improve your form, and don't be afraid to seize on those chances that happen.
I kinda ignored all the NPC mods back in my 2005 (and onwards) BG2 days, so I was not even aware of this.
And I am also wondering what do creators actually think of this backlash. Who knows, maybe he/she would die of a heartbreak as well after seeing this thread.
I still haven't played the Chloe mod so I can't give any $.02 on it. I remain impressed by the implementation of the Saerileth mod (Sigil in BG is great) but turned off by the poor writing / Mary Sue aspects of it.
If you want a well written lesbian relation, try Isra with a female lead (the goodly and charisma requirement does bug me, but she's a better Cavalier in every way than Saerileth.)
Actually, Chloe, as a lesbian bugs me, no, as a character. See, I love lesbians, but when porn preludes to the sex are better setup than the 'romance' here then I'll call it what it is, titillation.
She's pretty much a female playboy who hits on all your female party members. Sigil was, if I'm not mistaken, ripped from PST.
"Saerileth: Romance is too forced for lack of a better word but on the plus side does have a pure quality the other romances lack."
Atleast that's what I wrote at the time.
"Started ToB today Saerileth glitched, I fixed the glitch but now she gives me the you have become evil so I have to leave now dialog... that's odd since my alignment is still good and my rep is too... I'll try out Fade for now"
"I loaded up ToB again and noticed Sir Anomen was missing he apparently got left in hell or something..."
"Saerileth has started destroying some of my weapons, this is a annoyance. Apparently she ignored them before because they had been in my bag of holding"
That pretty much all I wrote back then so it seems I never noticed the whole do this or I'll die thing I assume because I was NG and did good just for goodness sake.
my notes on Chloe seem to be missing but I apparently made a lot of comparisons between her and Nathaniel with him in a far more favorable light.