Excessively Emo, hmm? I have to admit, I was squicked by her age, and everything I have heard here just makes me less and less interested in playing that mod. Mary Sue characters are usually only interesting to their creators, anyway. I've written my share of characters, and unless they have a flaw or flaws, they get boring really quickly.
I love this topic, it's so entertaining watching people bash Saerileth.
On Wes Weimer: this guy might be the most important person in Baldur's Gate fandom. His WeiDU made creating and applying mods as simple as it could be without breaking the game, which ultimately gave fuel to a community that lasted for over a decade and kept the game somewhat relevant.
Seriously, I would go as far as saying that without him, there would be no BG:EE. Who knows if Overhaul would be able to pull off a deal with Atari/WotC without an active fanbase to wave from a distance with money?
With that said, I don't think Solaufein is a particularly good mod.
I guess my problem with most NPC mods is that rather than just adding content, they tend to change the experience you get from the game a bit too much, whether it is by adding stuff that wasn't there in the first place (player-initiated dialogues, explicit content, flirts) or by falling into the trap of giving way too much attention to the character compared to the original NPCs or even the PC.
If that makes the game better to you, fine, knock yourself out, but I like BG/BG2 as it is. I'd like to see NPC mods that integrate seamlessly into the game as to make it look like they are part of an unmodded game.
To be completely honest, I think even the EE NPCs fail at this task, with the romances and whatnot. Call me crazy for wanting *less* content, but I'd rather them to be short in content in BG1 as to not outshine any of the original NPCs. Then in BG2, flesh them out, make them gay, not-gay, romanceable, whatever, go crazy. As long as it doesn't stand out like a sore thumb.
I guess my problem with most NPC mods is that rather than just adding content, they tend to change the experience you get from the game a bit too much, whether it is by adding stuff that wasn't there in the first place (player-initiated dialogues, explicit content, flirts) or by falling into the trap of giving way too much attention to the character compared to the original NPCs or even the PC.
If that makes the game better to you, fine, knock yourself out, but I like BG/BG2 as it is. I'd like to see NPC mods that integrate seamlessly into the game as to make it look like they are part of an unmodded game.
I tend to agree, but I played BG2 for quite some time now, that I am fine with using or testing NPC mods, cause I really can't stand the standard ones anymore. Or try to maintain a least a 'balance' - yet the BG2 issue hits you, you have only crappy thiefs, from whose only 1 fits in any party but is rather crap. (or I just don't like gnomes so I won't ever take them in my party). And finished the game already with either a thief or fighter/thief or similar and don't really want to do another.
So am forced to use a mod for this and there are IMO or for my use only 3 decent ones (Fade & Amber whom I haven't tried yet) and my current one: Kova. (Dis-)advantage is he comes in pair with a slightly overpowered 2nd NPC as well, cause having an Archer for SoA & ToB is insane :P Also the items they come with and the option to upgrade the further disrupt the balance a bit as well - and the author even made a major mistake with her bow. The last upgrade was supposed to be only a +3 weapon, but had 'real' stats of a +6 weapon (including what it can hit and the final stats were/are +9/+9!!). Given the fact that it has unlimited Ammo, increases your ApR by another +1 this weapon was overkill.
Fixed it at least in my game, but currently using Weimar's IUpgrade, so she is wielding Heartseeker with Quiver o' plenty+2, which is 'very' decent for SoA content. And going for the IUpgrade Longbow anyway...so I won't use hers. Their other stuff seems to be 'okay' yet I could argue about the dagger of Kova and the vorpal-procc in the last upgrade as well or his armor with a +1 to casting speed and backstab immunity. The latter is arguable for me the 2nd/3rd most OP item, given with SCSII you'll be backstabbed quite a lot.
Bit too much of an example, but NPC mods tend to bring in often too much gear, which is barely balanced or intended. Not to mention Weimar's stuff, but it is supposed to be used in either Tactics, Ascension or SCSII and it is needed there. Specially SCSII, which overhauls the AI/behavior of all enemy npcs.
That aside, I only heard of Solaufleins or Saeristupid's gear, which can be acquired and is beyond OPness as well. Now that I think of, I played the majority of my BG2 runs with the original NPCs and while I tried quite a lot of other mods, none of them made me play further than chapter 2/3. That'd be my first time I intend to play a full run with 3 modded npcs.
@Valky: I know Amber, she's a very well-written character. I didn't play the romance (I believe she's heterosexual and my Charname was a woman), but there's also, quite unique, a very extensive friendship path in which you get to gain her trust very gradually. Really enjoying story. Also comes with a nice sidequest. And technically, she's quite an able thief with melee/archery capacities as well for being dual-classed from a fighter. Very good alternative for Jan thief-wise, even better.
Oooh, I never noticed she is dual-classed = obvious choice is obvious Fade's stat distribution is also a bit weird, low con but (very) high int+cha.
But the protagonist who will have her in the party, still enjoys Candlekeep and am quite busy in my current game.
edit: from Pathfinder RPG: Tiefling lvl 1 rogue -> Str 13, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 6 Amber really comes close, even if her 1st class was warrior, but given the CHA penalty of -2 Fade is just overly charismatic.
The Amber mod also has the original feature that she is romancable by a second character (i.e., in a multipayer game). The second character should be placed in the slot just below the party leader.
The biggest downside to the Amber mod is that it only supports SOA so there is no content for TOB. It is wroth a try if you want more content.
I said above that the Valen mod is my favorite for an evil party and is supported in both SOA and TOB (exercise restraint with the claws or they will become overpowered). No romance and definitely a secondary role for most of the game in both dialogue and role. She is a fighter/thief.
The Kelsey mod is pretty good and has full content and romance for a female PC. He is a sorcerer. Talkative but not someone who is going to railroad you down any particular path.
The Edwin romance mod is decent. Obviously, his character changes somewhat with the mod but if you are bored with the standard NPC's this might be worth a try. I tried the Nalia romance mod years ago and remember thinking it was OK but don't have that installed anymore. The Imoen romance is supposed to be pretty terrible as is the Nathaniel mod (I think that is the right name).
I am definitely interested in seeing what comes out but like others hope they aren't Mary Sue characters.
* * * *
My favorite mod is the BG1 NPC Project which adds content to all the NPCs so they are more akin to their BG2 successors in terms of banters, etc. I thought this addition of content really made the game more enjoyable and am looking forward to it when they get it up and running for BG:EE.
SCS and Ascension are mods that increase the difficulty of the game largely by writing more intelligent scripts for opponents. (Mages might be walking around with stoneskin and have melf's meteors just like a PC would, for example). They prevent a lot of the "abuse the AI" tactics like creeping through the bandit camp picking them off one at a time or firing a cloudkill into the fog of war and having your opponents just sit there until they die. I really like the boosted difficulty of these mods.
Given my love for the NPC Project, I like the new characters with BG:EE and their more significant content. Having played BG2 first, that was my biggest disappointment with BG1 - the lack of depth to the NPCs.
One thing that bothered me about Amber is that despite Haer'dalis being a Teifling, she acts like a hunted demon and he doesn't... because she gets hunted for being a teifling, and he doesn't despite being one as well... why?
@Dazzu - I have no knowledge of Amber's plot, but remember that Haer isn't native to Toril, he's from (iirc) Sigil where planetouched beings are a lot more common. Tieflings on Toril aren't as lucky and suffer more persecution. Haer doesn't look very very demonish either, and his character being of the Merry/Charming Rogue archetype he's also too carefree to give a damn about those things.
If course, that's just the ingame reasons I can come up with. From a meta perspective I think the author just saw an opportunity for conflict and took it. Conflict drives all stories, after all.
Just from the reading here about amber (G3 is not working for me currently?) it sounds a lot like Neeshka, being also mocked/taunted by humans. Guess I don't need to name the game :>
Also good point from @scriver. No one really cares about the theater grp around Haer'dalis or there they are from as long as the performance is good, and he gives a damn about comments about his heritage either. And he can rely on his charm to counter mocking (honestly, who wants to insult a bard!)
I always enjoy the 5 flagon inn quests, IMO a bit too short compared to some NPC quests/dungeons whatsover. But the Bard stronghold rocks!
I had many NPC mods installed in one megamod install. I didn't use any of them but probably met some of the OP encounters in it. Not sure everything was OP in that install, the weapons the encounters, the randomly found Carosymir +6. This teached me that anything that goes over some slight extra quest will just ruin the balance.
Anyway I voted Chloe because you know it has to be bad if Shades of Grey is mentioned over and over.
@Dazzu Half-Demons are Cambions, not Tieflings. Tieflings have the lower planes in their ancestry, which generally means grandchildren of demons/devils (Tanar'ri/Baatezu) or even further back.
EDIT: Let me amend that... Male half-Demons are Cambions, Females are Alu-Demons.
@LadyRhian: Incorrect. Alu-fiends are the offspring of succubi and a mortal male. Cambions are the offspring of non-succubi fiends and female mortals. Half-fiend is the generic term for any half-mortal, half-demon. Tieflings have fiendish ancestry from any lower plane, but sufficiently diluted that they are more mortal than fiend.
@Darkcloud: Chloe was written long before that book. "Shades of grey" as Chloe uses it refers to the idea that there is no such thing as good or evil, black or white, only lighter and darker shades of grey.
@Tempest "Half-fiends" didn't exist as a term until 3e. There is also a female Cambion who exists in one adventure, but that was in Dungeon Magazine and probably not canon. And yes, Alu-Fiends were supposed to be half-succubus, but it always made me wonder why there were no other options in 2e for a female half-fiend, because there were certainly other "appearing as female" fiends, like Erinyes, Mariliths and such. Iuz from Grayhawke is a Cambion as well, as I remember.
I am, of course, intrigued by what sounds like a female demon creature and her (hopefully) female roommate having sexytime... but back on a topic more depressing, THESE MODS BLOW!
I honestly did not think that the Saerileth mod was that bad.
I mean I gave it an 85% - and although its dialogue is worse than Kelsey/Keto at least her character is polarizing. Additionally for all its technical shortfalls it does actually try to do a lot of things that many other NPC mods at the time did not even try (new areas, alternate ways to complete primary quests).
So yeah, it has some downsides - but it tried and to some degree succeeded in doing a lot of stuff not seen in other mods.
Admittedly I reviewed the mod . . . SEVEN YEARS AGO. Jesus we are old here gentlemen. I was 18 at the time.
Sola is a terrible mod. It has some tough encounters but what kills it - as another poster said - is the crappy poetry and angst ridden Drow.
Never played Chloe and never will. Overly gay Mary-sue who thinks she can hang with a Bhaalspawn? Give her the SWORD!
Yasraena is probably the worst mod though. I wanted to like it so much - but people writing Drow mods just can't put anything interesting out.
Saerileth. Not because she's creepy (though she kinda was) but because I felt like the mod was trying to replace my Bhaalspawn as the main character. Good lord she NEVER SHUT UP.
A huge deal of enjoyable rants and a fair amount of hilarious trivia about the worst NPC mods including Chloe and Saerileth. Some of these I didn't know existed!
Some of my favourites(spoilers): Saerileth actually *dying* of heartbreak if you screw up her romance at certain points, namely in Ust Natha after boning the drow wench Some Nathaniel companion randomly starting to kiss your male Charname during rest for hilariously angsty reasons Soulafein's sword.......... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/kharn-the-betrayer/random crap/SoulaSword.jpg
Hahahaha! I'm not sure what's worse, the sword's overpoweredness, or that it has a Japanese name for seemingly no reason.
Comments
On Wes Weimer: this guy might be the most important person in Baldur's Gate fandom. His WeiDU made creating and applying mods as simple as it could be without breaking the game, which ultimately gave fuel to a community that lasted for over a decade and kept the game somewhat relevant.
Seriously, I would go as far as saying that without him, there would be no BG:EE. Who knows if Overhaul would be able to pull off a deal with Atari/WotC without an active fanbase to wave from a distance with money?
With that said, I don't think Solaufein is a particularly good mod.
I guess my problem with most NPC mods is that rather than just adding content, they tend to change the experience you get from the game a bit too much, whether it is by adding stuff that wasn't there in the first place (player-initiated dialogues, explicit content, flirts) or by falling into the trap of giving way too much attention to the character compared to the original NPCs or even the PC.
If that makes the game better to you, fine, knock yourself out, but I like BG/BG2 as it is. I'd like to see NPC mods that integrate seamlessly into the game as to make it look like they are part of an unmodded game.
To be completely honest, I think even the EE NPCs fail at this task, with the romances and whatnot. Call me crazy for wanting *less* content, but I'd rather them to be short in content in BG1 as to not outshine any of the original NPCs. Then in BG2, flesh them out, make them gay, not-gay, romanceable, whatever, go crazy. As long as it doesn't stand out like a sore thumb.
So am forced to use a mod for this and there are IMO or for my use only 3 decent ones (Fade & Amber whom I haven't tried yet) and my current one: Kova. (Dis-)advantage is he comes in pair with a slightly overpowered 2nd NPC as well, cause having an Archer for SoA & ToB is insane :P
Also the items they come with and the option to upgrade the further disrupt the balance a bit as well - and the author even made a major mistake with her bow. The last upgrade was supposed to be only a +3 weapon, but had 'real' stats of a +6 weapon (including what it can hit and the final stats were/are +9/+9!!). Given the fact that it has unlimited Ammo, increases your ApR by another +1 this weapon was overkill.
Fixed it at least in my game, but currently using Weimar's IUpgrade, so she is wielding Heartseeker with Quiver o' plenty+2, which is 'very' decent for SoA content. And going for the IUpgrade Longbow anyway...so I won't use hers.
Their other stuff seems to be 'okay' yet I could argue about the dagger of Kova and the vorpal-procc in the last upgrade as well or his armor with a +1 to casting speed and backstab immunity. The latter is arguable for me the 2nd/3rd most OP item, given with SCSII you'll be backstabbed quite a lot.
Bit too much of an example, but NPC mods tend to bring in often too much gear, which is barely balanced or intended. Not to mention Weimar's stuff, but it is supposed to be used in either Tactics, Ascension or SCSII and it is needed there. Specially SCSII, which overhauls the AI/behavior of all enemy npcs.
That aside, I only heard of Solaufleins or Saeristupid's gear, which can be acquired and is beyond OPness as well.
Now that I think of, I played the majority of my BG2 runs with the original NPCs and while I tried quite a lot of other mods, none of them made me play further than chapter 2/3. That'd be my first time I intend to play a full run with 3 modded npcs.
Anyone experienced with either Amber or Fade and can recommend one of them?
Fade's stat distribution is also a bit weird, low con but (very) high int+cha.
But the protagonist who will have her in the party, still enjoys Candlekeep and am quite busy in my current game.
edit: from Pathfinder RPG: Tiefling lvl 1 rogue -> Str 13, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 6
Amber really comes close, even if her 1st class was warrior, but given the CHA penalty of -2 Fade is just overly charismatic.
I said above that the Valen mod is my favorite for an evil party and is supported in both SOA and TOB (exercise restraint with the claws or they will become overpowered). No romance and definitely a secondary role for most of the game in both dialogue and role. She is a fighter/thief.
The Kelsey mod is pretty good and has full content and romance for a female PC. He is a sorcerer. Talkative but not someone who is going to railroad you down any particular path.
The Edwin romance mod is decent. Obviously, his character changes somewhat with the mod but if you are bored with the standard NPC's this might be worth a try. I tried the Nalia romance mod years ago and remember thinking it was OK but don't have that installed anymore. The Imoen romance is supposed to be pretty terrible as is the Nathaniel mod (I think that is the right name).
I am definitely interested in seeing what comes out but like others hope they aren't Mary Sue characters.
* * * *
My favorite mod is the BG1 NPC Project which adds content to all the NPCs so they are more akin to their BG2 successors in terms of banters, etc. I thought this addition of content really made the game more enjoyable and am looking forward to it when they get it up and running for BG:EE.
SCS and Ascension are mods that increase the difficulty of the game largely by writing more intelligent scripts for opponents. (Mages might be walking around with stoneskin and have melf's meteors just like a PC would, for example). They prevent a lot of the "abuse the AI" tactics like creeping through the bandit camp picking them off one at a time or firing a cloudkill into the fog of war and having your opponents just sit there until they die. I really like the boosted difficulty of these mods.
Given my love for the NPC Project, I like the new characters with BG:EE and their more significant content. Having played BG2 first, that was my biggest disappointment with BG1 - the lack of depth to the NPCs.
I have no knowledge of Amber's plot, but remember that Haer isn't native to Toril, he's from (iirc) Sigil where planetouched beings are a lot more common. Tieflings on Toril aren't as lucky and suffer more persecution. Haer doesn't look very very demonish either, and his character being of the Merry/Charming Rogue archetype he's also too carefree to give a damn about those things.
If course, that's just the ingame reasons I can come up with. From a meta perspective I think the author just saw an opportunity for conflict and took it. Conflict drives all stories, after all.
Also good point from @scriver. No one really cares about the theater grp around Haer'dalis or there they are from as long as the performance is good, and he gives a damn about comments about his heritage either. And he can rely on his charm to counter mocking (honestly, who wants to insult a bard!)
I always enjoy the 5 flagon inn quests, IMO a bit too short compared to some NPC quests/dungeons whatsover. But the Bard stronghold rocks!
[Yet Biff failed! :Þ]
Plus: she has some teifling innate skills and Haery doesn't... he could have been a lot more useful...
Anyway I voted Chloe because you know it has to be bad if Shades of Grey is mentioned over and over.
EDIT: Let me amend that... Male half-Demons are Cambions, Females are Alu-Demons.
@Darkcloud: Chloe was written long before that book. "Shades of grey" as Chloe uses it refers to the idea that there is no such thing as good or evil, black or white, only lighter and darker shades of grey.
How would that work anyhow? The mental image I have is v. complicated.
Rule 34 disagrees... not sure if I should be sad or curious.
I mean I gave it an 85% - and although its dialogue is worse than Kelsey/Keto at least her character is polarizing. Additionally for all its technical shortfalls it does actually try to do a lot of things that many other NPC mods at the time did not even try (new areas, alternate ways to complete primary quests).
So yeah, it has some downsides - but it tried and to some degree succeeded in doing a lot of stuff not seen in other mods.
Admittedly I reviewed the mod . . . SEVEN YEARS AGO. Jesus we are old here gentlemen. I was 18 at the time.
Sola is a terrible mod. It has some tough encounters but what kills it - as another poster said - is the crappy poetry and angst ridden Drow.
Never played Chloe and never will. Overly gay Mary-sue who thinks she can hang with a Bhaalspawn? Give her the SWORD!
Yasraena is probably the worst mod though. I wanted to like it so much - but people writing Drow mods just can't put anything interesting out.
tough choice
OTP, obviously.