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NPC Interaction and Banter Guide (OK Finished)

MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
edited December 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
This thread is about NPC Banter, specifically about which NPCs are best paired with whom.

NOTE: All of this was sourced from BG:TOTSC Vanilla and does not reflect the enhancements from Beamdog. Hence there might be missing dialogue, the absence of Dorn, Rashaas and Neera plus Imoen is completely glitched up. I've noticed one or two odd dialogue lines that I've missed because of glitches, so this guide isn't perfect but merely a 99% estimation.

Table of Contents:

I. General/Non-Banter Quotes
II. Reputation Quotes
III. Selection/Action Quotes
IV. Environment Quotes
V. Insult/Compliment/Special/Death Quotes
VI. Unique Banter Dialogue Trees
VII. NPC Summaries
VIII. Recommended Party Formations

NOTE: Casual viewers should skip to VII. NPC Summaries for the tl;dr condensed version or VIII. Recommended Party Formations. Everything else is for in-depth reference.
Post edited by Mordeus on
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Comments

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Wow, fantastic job! Great info my friend.

    I'm surprised that Kivan and Viconia actually do fight ... I've never had it happen. I always thought it was just as likely that they would start making out.
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    @Quartz From what I've seen in the game data of Vanilla some of the banters were very rare and didn't work as frequently as they should, something is a little off with the way they calculated the chance of them activating.

    With the dialogue that gets them to fight, there's the 5-6 line version which starts off the battle and then there is a 2-3 line version which cuts it off before they get to the point of fighting. So if you don't let the dialogue play itself out or if you're unlucky to get the shortened version instead, then they don't fight.

    I think this has improved in EE though. I haven't checked it out to be sure but from looking around the forums it seems that the Jaheira/Khalid versus Xzar/Montaron dialogue tree has been working more frequently than in Vanilla. So the same could be true of Viconia/Kivan. When I get a hold of EE my plan is to calculate the chance of a banter occuring and at what reputation their mood changes.

    That is the first thing I'm going to check with EE, to see if they have improved the way banters occur. That and if they fixed the missing banters and Imoen as a whole. There seems to be at least one banter between Imoen and Eldoth but it's just completely glitched.
  • LadyEibhilinRhettLadyEibhilinRhett Member Posts: 1,078
    There are two that aren't listed, though. Edwin's "no harm shall come to her as I yet live" and Eldoth's "you are the most uninteresting person I have had the honor of knowing". Where do these fit?
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    I nominate this for a sticky. In order to avoid excessive stickies for such good reference material writing, I would suggest a new forum for "Game Reference Materials (Spoilers)", or something like that.
  • MessiMessi Member Posts: 738
    That's pretty cool OP!
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    @LadyEibhilinRhett The Edwin one I don't think I found listed in the game data. Doesn't mean it isn't there, it just wasn't stated properly in the code. There's a big problem with Vanilla and the way they organized some of the banter files, particularly in Imoen's case who is one big confusing glitchy mess. I think it's directed to Alora, I just need to check in the BG:EE files instead of the Vanilla files. It's going to take a while since I'm holding off for the mac version.

    I think it must be a Dialogue Tree line which I've noticed is a big problem when I went searching through the data. There is a Quayle quote defending Garrick's music to Tiax that I couldn't find but it works in the game. So I'm going to have to go through the dialogue trees a second time.

    The Eldoth line is one of his two insult lines, which he directs to Khalid, Garrick, Xan or Edwin.

    @belgarathmth I think in the future a Guide forum might be needed, since there are others around making their own guides. But I've been thinking it would just be easier to move this thread into the Fan Creations forum. It might not be an artwork but it is a fan creation of sorts.
  • FoerthanFoerthan Member Posts: 23
    @Mordeus:

    This is pretty amazing. Thanks for the write-up.

    Do you plan on adding the new NPC's lines once the Mac version comes out? I'd love to see those as well.
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    @Foerthan Yeah the interactions with the new NPCs is something I'm very curious about. This was mainly to show which of the old NPCs were designed to interact with, especially since they had very specific individual connections. But I might as well go all out and add in the new NPCs just for completion's sake.
  • The_CheesemanThe_Cheeseman Member Posts: 175
    I'd be very interested in seeing this thread updated with data about the new NPCs, but it is a great work, nonetheless!
  • OzzyBotkinsOzzyBotkins Member Posts: 396
    Fantastic work
    BIG Thumbs Up
    going to try a bunch mre party combos now
    and less Imoem
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,438
    edited January 2013
    Ahh, this is BEAUTIFUL! Perfect for my next playthrough!
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited February 2013
    Here is the guide in document form.
    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Question: What determines at which NPC another will direct their insults and compliments? In nearly every party combination I played (in BGEE, can't remember BG1) everyone insults Edwin and he replies, but he never insults others first. Not that it doesn't amuse me, but it seems out of character and I never get to hear the reply lines. Other evil-evil combos are mutual, as well as good-neutral-evil, i.e. Alora will insult Montaron and he insults her, taking turns to initiate. Eldoth only compliments Branwen, even if other female NPCs are present (not counting Skie and Shar-Teel). He completely ignores Safana, Viconia and Alora; and he is the only one who uses compliment lines at all. Though, that is probably because my parties are mostly evil, but he goes for Branwen, so it's not the alignment and not the gender (?). Is there a list who will insult/compliment whom first?
  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    Very nice, thank you!
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Love this! And I think you missed one: IMOEN now says "Good on ya if you save the day" when your rep goes up by 1 so HPY quote.
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    KidCarnival said:

    Question: What determines at which NPC another will direct their insults and compliments? In nearly every party combination I played (in BGEE, can't remember BG1) everyone insults Edwin and he replies, but he never insults others first. Not that it doesn't amuse me, but it seems out of character and I never get to hear the reply lines. Other evil-evil combos are mutual, as well as good-neutral-evil, i.e. Alora will insult Montaron and he insults her, taking turns to initiate. Eldoth only compliments Branwen, even if other female NPCs are present (not counting Skie and Shar-Teel). He completely ignores Safana, Viconia and Alora; and he is the only one who uses compliment lines at all. Though, that is probably because my parties are mostly evil, but he goes for Branwen, so it's not the alignment and not the gender (?). Is there a list who will insult/compliment whom first?

    I think it is purely randomized by the game and that there is no real priority order. But the thing that might be screwing it up for you is that you might have too many Edwin compatible NPCs in your party.

    For example you might have 4 NPCs that insult or compliment Edwin but he has only 1 insult reply and 1 compliment reply dialogue. So the game will pick one of the four to banter with him and he will reply with his only line. Leaving the other three to miss out.

    Remember, Edwin only initiates an insult towards Minsc, Yeslick, Ajantis, Khalid and Eldoth. So if you don't have any of them in the party then he won't start anything himself.

    While he will reply towards Minsc, Yeslick, Khalid, Jaheira, Garrick, Safana, Branwen, Xan, Eldoth, Kagain and Viconia.

    My recommendation for Edwin is this.

    - Alora (with no Xan, since he might steal lines away from Edwin)
    - Dynaheir (with no Minsc, otherwise they will kill each other. Haven't tested this but the game data says that she won't attack if away from Minsc.)
    - Yeslick, Khalid or Eldoth (Leaning more to Eldoth cause he has one extra reply line. Do not choose all three, or they will cancel each other out.)
    - Don't pick Minsc or Ajantis, otherwise be prepared to reload whenever they start a fight.

    So with Alora, Dynaheir and Yeslick/Khalid/Eldoth, that gives you one spare slot. Which you could spend on another NPC to insult Edwin or you could pick one that banters with the other NPCs. Garrick seems like he could work since he has a connection with Alora and Eldoth. That combination would make all 5 NPCs interact with each other, Alora with Dynaheir, Garrick with Eldoth, everyone versus Edwin, etc...

    The best banter combinations are incredibly specific and aren't what you'd expect. So unless you played through with Edwin, Dynaheir, Eldoth, Garrick and Alora... I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't much banter going on.
  • AstafasAstafas Member Posts: 448
    Great job! :-)
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Hm, I see. Does the order in which I recruit them have any part in this? Kagain seems to initiate with everyone, and Monty does notably more often, too. (Xzar acts like Edwin and only replies though.)
  • MordeusMordeus Member Posts: 460
    The banter system isn't that complex for Insults and Compliments. Basically there is a big chart where each NPC is given a "I" or a "C" in regards to a specific NPC. No NPC can be the target of both insults and compliments from a specific NPC. If an NPC was going to insult someone and there are more than one he could insult, then the game will randomly pick between them. So its' a matter of luck.

    That's why I recommend picking one target of a NPC's insults and one target of a NPC's compliments. If you pick more than one, then one will be ignored for the other. So if you add in NPCs who are all targets of Edwin's insults just to trigger his insults, then you are working against yourself or at least wasting slots that could be used for other banter.

    Xzar is a real special case. He doesn't insult or compliment, instead he has "special" dialogue. He will banter with everyone, well to be more accurate he will ramble and get yelled at for it. The other NPC with "special" dialogue is Viconia who threatens some of the men.

    Xzar is a pretty solid choice to fill in a banter slot. If in doubt add him.

    In the case of Compliments and Insults you can edit the interact.2da file to alter some of them if you want. All you have to do is change the value around, just make sure there is a compliment or insult file to be triggered.

    The interact.2da file needs to be edited but I guess Overhaul can't because of the contract? Partly because there are 5 lines of dialogue that are in the game that are never triggered because the original developers forgot to put a value into the .2da file. Montaron should compliment someone but he never does whilst I think Jaheira and two others also have dialogue that is faulty.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    I smell a solution by simply altering Kagain. He's the one initiating with everyone, no matter who else is in the party, and all at the same time. If he shuts up, it should free up the rest. Or simply having a party without Kagain, which I was planning to do anyway after my current runs.
  • FafnirFafnir Member Posts: 232
    This thread has a sense of... evil about it.
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