Do not be harsh on players who have trouble with Karoug. Yes it is quite easy to do if you have the meta knowledge and are optimaly prepared (remind me again what fight is hard under these circumstances). However people who don´t have perfect info about the encounter, do not rest after every fight and actualy uses their consumables can easily run into problems. First there are not too many bastard sword using NPCs, which means that it might seem like a good idea to sell Kondar. And even if the party has Kondar or manages to identify Werebane, trying to kill super fast regenerating monster with 1,5 APR plus penalty to Thac0 cannot qualify as good strategy.
During our multiplayer session, the Karoug fight was definitly memorable (granted we use SCS). I do not warn my friends about incoming fights,so the result was total party wide panic. We spent several rounds desperately switching weapons, running around and shouting at each other. In the end he fell to combined might of vast majority of our wands scrolls and potions. We will probably remember that fight for years to come, which is exactly of what good DnD fight should look like.
That fight is definitely bugged in EE: 1. Both weapons available at that point in the game are Bastard Swords. In the original, they were filed together with the Long Swords, but in EE there is too many proficiencies, so those are as good as sticks for more people. 2. It is now regenerating HP 3. The Balduran Sword is now unidentified and you need to waste the time to pass it around to identify it. I wonder if anybody playtested it at all.
1. Both weapons available at that point in the game are Bastard Swords. In the original, they were filed together with the Long Swords, but in EE there is too many proficiencies, so those are as good as sticks for more people.
There are also a dagger and a longsword available before the fight. The Greater Wolfwere is also vulnerable to spells, which can often be the key to dealing with it.
There are also a dagger and a longsword available before the fight.
Daggers are no longer Short Blades anymore, and similarly useless. The longsword is located at the end of the Durlag's Tower, and I doubt the endgame dungeon is completed before the island. Spells are cast once per round, and practically useless with the insane regeneration speed.
This was actually something that was a bug in the original that the EE fixed.
To clarify, in both original BG and BGEE Karoug regenerates 5 HP per second so you have to inflict 30 damage per round just to break even. The bug in original BG was that this regeneration could stack due to a bad timing mode on the regeneration item. Every time Karoug was activated (every time you re-load or re-enter his area) he would gain an additional 5 HP/second of regeneration. Even this happening once or twice made him nearly impossible to kill. We get enough reports, like this one, complaining about his baseline regeneration rate.
This bug originally carried over to some of the lycanthropes in BG2 but was long ago fixed in BG2 Fixpack and (by extension) BG2EE.
Well, it should be toned down then, if the only weapons that can damage it are now of exotic type which no character who can reasonably damage it is likely to have. I had 22 and 19 STR during that encounter, 1/1.5 attack/round, haste, bless, and still failed to hit it reliably while pelting it with spells. In the original, a single character with haste, bless and no bonus strength could kill it in few rounds.
Un-gimmicking the fight by making it vulnerable to +2 weapons or something should work too.
Well, it should be toned down then, if the only weapons that can damage it are now of exotic type which no character who can reasonably damage it is likely to have.
Un-gimmicking the fight by making it vulnerable to +2 weapons or something should work too.
(old thread is old) There need to be more anti-werewolf weapons in general... which is what modpacks are for. I started on one that made the cursed +3 weapons (a two-handed sword you can get for basically free, a morning star that requires traversing a significant portion of lower Durlag's Tower, and a spear that's somewhere southeast of the Bandit Camp) capable of damaging Karoug as well, on the grounds that their drawbacks normally outweigh their advantages and therefore they need something else going for them.
@Pokota some silver arrows would be nice.
I don't find Karoug hard, but rather tricky. I usually clear out Durlag's Tower before Balduran's Isle. The key is to have him while still having enough firepower on your disposal, so main challenge comes from killing all others werewolves while abstaining from using spells.
Just played through this encounter for the first time since the late 90s, and he certainly still is a beast!
This time around, the only fighter in my party was a Human War Priest (I went with a B-team, mainly arcane party to support), so the golden bastard sword wasn't much help. After seeing the party get blown to chunks a couple dozen times decided to try a stealth tactic...
I'm not sure he can be solo'ed (was playing on Hard last run), but I did find a way to drop the Greater Wolfwere with a party of 3 surviving the initial bum-rush. Stumbled into it by accident, after seeing half the party gutted left with just a pair of rogues and the protagonist. Cast emergency invisibility on Safana to keep her from getting smashed into a puddle of gore, just on a throw away move, thinking we were all already dead, but she was parked square in the doorway separating the main room from the smaller one where we had run for safety only to get scorched there too. Once invisible she became like an impassible wall! Managed to keep the remaining Wolfweres unable pass the threshold, or to target the others. Then broke out all the spells and all the wands. Hold seemed pretty critical, the Woodland being actually nailed that one, I didn't think it would be possible. Used pretty much every potion and item with a charge. Every magic missile and wand of flamestrike, and ends up down to a dagger in melee lol. Ridiculous!
Taking a single proficiency point in daggers actually panned out for something haha
I've been playing the TotSC content for the first time in EE, and was able to beat Karoug with some advice from this forum, thanks!
Step 1: I was attempting to lure him down, but actually just got his lesser Wolfwere buddies. Dispatch them easily.
Step 2: Sending up Alora to nab the sword, but Karoug is actually blocking the way. Since I need to go visible to lure him down anyway, backstab the mage to near death and run. Karoug gets to second floor before stopping, the mage stays on top.
Step 3: Send Alora back up, backstab the mage once more to kill her, and get all the goods. Regroup, rest, and prep.
Step 4: Dorn wields Balduran's Sword with a Large Shield +1 and takes a Potion of Cloud Giant Strength. Alora takes the Wolfbane dagger. PC Cleric casts Resist Fire and Protection from Fire/Cold on both. Protection from Evil 10' and Haste on the party, plus Invisibility on Alora. Alora get into position while Dorn lures the big guy down. Then Dorn engages in melee, Alora backstabs, Neera and Imoen spam fireballs, PC cleric uses Wand of the Heavens, and Minsc, with nothing else to do, tosses an Oil of Fiery Burning Two rounds of endless fire got him to near death and some Magic Missiles took him down in round 3.
For future reader’s reference, I haven’t see it mentioned, but Karoug’s difficulty mainly comes from:
- very few weapons can actually damage him
- his insane regeneration.
While the first point has already been addressed, it needs to be mentioned that his regen can be halved down by casting Slow on him (well, if he fails the save, but that’s easily doable with Greater Malison + the save at -4 from the slow spell itself).
Slowing him also gimps his thac0, APR and AC, so definitely a good debuff to use on Karoug.
Comments
During our multiplayer session, the Karoug fight was definitly memorable (granted we use SCS). I do not warn my friends about incoming fights,so the result was total party wide panic. We spent several rounds desperately switching weapons, running around and shouting at each other. In the end he fell to combined might of vast majority of our wands scrolls and potions. We will probably remember that fight for years to come, which is exactly of what good DnD fight should look like.
1. Both weapons available at that point in the game are Bastard Swords. In the original, they were filed together with the Long Swords, but in EE there is too many proficiencies, so those are as good as sticks for more people.
2. It is now regenerating HP
3. The Balduran Sword is now unidentified and you need to waste the time to pass it around to identify it.
I wonder if anybody playtested it at all.
This bug originally carried over to some of the lycanthropes in BG2 but was long ago fixed in BG2 Fixpack and (by extension) BG2EE.
I had 22 and 19 STR during that encounter, 1/1.5 attack/round, haste, bless, and still failed to hit it reliably while pelting it with spells.
In the original, a single character with haste, bless and no bonus strength could kill it in few rounds.
Un-gimmicking the fight by making it vulnerable to +2 weapons or something should work too.
I don't find Karoug hard, but rather tricky. I usually clear out Durlag's Tower before Balduran's Isle. The key is to have him while still having enough firepower on your disposal, so main challenge comes from killing all others werewolves while abstaining from using spells.
This time around, the only fighter in my party was a Human War Priest (I went with a B-team, mainly arcane party to support), so the golden bastard sword wasn't much help. After seeing the party get blown to chunks a couple dozen times decided to try a stealth tactic...
Taking a single proficiency point in daggers actually panned out for something haha
Step 2: Sending up Alora to nab the sword, but Karoug is actually blocking the way. Since I need to go visible to lure him down anyway, backstab the mage to near death and run. Karoug gets to second floor before stopping, the mage stays on top.
Step 3: Send Alora back up, backstab the mage once more to kill her, and get all the goods. Regroup, rest, and prep.
Step 4: Dorn wields Balduran's Sword with a Large Shield +1 and takes a Potion of Cloud Giant Strength. Alora takes the Wolfbane dagger. PC Cleric casts Resist Fire and Protection from Fire/Cold on both. Protection from Evil 10' and Haste on the party, plus Invisibility on Alora. Alora get into position while Dorn lures the big guy down. Then Dorn engages in melee, Alora backstabs, Neera and Imoen spam fireballs, PC cleric uses Wand of the Heavens, and Minsc, with nothing else to do, tosses an Oil of Fiery Burning
For future reader’s reference, I haven’t see it mentioned, but Karoug’s difficulty mainly comes from:
- very few weapons can actually damage him
- his insane regeneration.
While the first point has already been addressed, it needs to be mentioned that his regen can be halved down by casting Slow on him (well, if he fails the save, but that’s easily doable with Greater Malison + the save at -4 from the slow spell itself).
Slowing him also gimps his thac0, APR and AC, so definitely a good debuff to use on Karoug.